What Are Safest Hormones/supps To Gain MASS?

Discussion in 'Male Issues' started by Pufa, Oct 31, 2019.

  1. Pufa

    Pufa Member

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    I'm already on peat style workout.. heavy basic concentric based trying to keep lactic acid and cortisol low.

    Now I'm debating whether to try any supps to take things to next level. What would he the safest hormones or supplements to take if I want to add muscle mass?
     
  2. Hans

    Hans Member

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    The most important things that will have the greatest effect are protein (>1.6g/kg/BW), carbs (at least twice as much as protein), fats (saturated fat is anabolic, PUFA catabolic), cholesterol, sleep, proper structured training program and avoiding stress.

    Supplements that promote a low stress environment/mind set and sleep will probably be most helpful. Sleep, apart from diet, is the most important thing to optimize for results. GABA promotors and cortisol regulators will be very helpful in promoting proper sleep. Peat even mentioned that thyroid can help get you into the deep restorative sleep.

    Apart from the things mentioned above, there are creatine, ATP optimizers (building new muscle is energy intensive), androgen optimizers (e.g. micronutients, Gonadin), adaptogens (e.g. ashwagandha, Rhediola), prohormones (progesterone, DHEA, 6-keto P4, androsterone, etc.) and serotonin antagonists (serotonin will hamper muscle growth and 95% or more of serotonin is created in the gut) can might help build new muscle.

    Then lastly there are of course, SARMs and AAS, but I' d hope you'd want to go the more natty route.

    I probably missed a few minor things, but those are the most important to focus on.

    Edit: prohormones might really not help a great deal, if at all, when all the rest is already optimized. Haidut mentioned that super high dose of progesterone (100-150mg daily) with DHEA (15mg daily) is able to replace testosterone injections in bodybuilders, but proper analysis is needed to confirm muscle and strength changes.
     
  3. OP
    Pufa

    Pufa Member

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    Those macros are no prob.. but keeping low stress is an issue. Which supplements do you suggest for that?
    I wouldn't mind deeper sleep either.
    I'll look into taking thyroid.
     
  4. Hans

    Hans Member

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    There is a bunch of different supplements for stress but they don't always work the same for everyone so I can't just point out "the best" one of you know what I mean.
    But in general, Rhodiola Rosea, pregnenolone, CortiNon maybe, adamantane (Diamant), cypro, Gonadin, valerian root, magnesium, glycine, carbs and saturated fat, B-vitamins especially B1 (increased CO2 and ATP production can help cope with stress), tribulus terrestris, etc, can be pretty helpful.
    I currently use methylene blue, B1, tribulus, stearic acid, aspirin, niacinamide, GABA (for sleep) and a little DHEA and I feel super good, probably the best I've ever felt.
     
  5. shine

    shine Member

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    What helps me tremendously is Ornithine HCl. It lowers cortisol, promotes deeper sleep and lowers ammonia. It is really helpful for people who consume lots of protein.
    It is also in a lot of bodybuilding recovery products.
     
  6. OP
    Pufa

    Pufa Member

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    Awesome thanks. How much dhea you take?
     
  7. Hans

    Hans Member

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    25mg every other day.
     
  8. OP
    Pufa

    Pufa Member

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    wouldnt that increase nitric oxide?
     
  9. topandwal

    topandwal New Member

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    BEFORE ever reading above info or like info , once took more than my average transdermal progesterone(off and on dhea),not super high dose either as was a 2% creme(wanted more allepreg for some nasty insomnia) and next morning noticed definite (subjective observation) anabolic effect akin to test (fluid retention like from test,felt noticably bigger,maybe puffy all over,looked like the hulk in mirror... lol) ...thought I made a new discovery...lol. Regular smaller doses no fluid retention per say....YMMV
     
  10. GreekDemiGod

    GreekDemiGod Member

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    You can build muscle with stress in your life too, if you sleep enough.
     
  11. LeeLemonoil

    LeeLemonoil Member

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    Ecdysteroids where not mentioned but were shown to improve performance and help build mass and muscle.
    Brassinosteroids too.
    Plants And Insects As A Source Of Steroids

    Creatine the best researched and proven imo.
     
  12. Hans

    Hans Member

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    Yes ofc, but how optimal will it be? Maybe it's just me but I want to absolutely maximize my genetic potential and stress will hold me back.

    Acute daily psychological stress causes increased atrophic gene expression and myostatin-dependent muscle atrophy
    "Stress can also decrease lean body mass in both humans and rodents (6, 12, 20, 25). From a health perspective, stress-induced decreases in lean mass may have two major adverse outcomes. First, a decrease in lean mass may further contribute to the stress-induced adverse metabolic profile by decreasing substrate oxidation due to a reduction in the amount of metabolically active tissue, which may result in even greater energy storage in adipose tissue. Second, chronic psychological stress may increase susceptibility to musculoskeletal injury by creating smaller, weaker muscles less capable of producing and/or sustaining an equivalent level of force as an unstressed muscle, which could result in a muscle more susceptible to mechanical strain-induced damage during normal use (15)."
     
  13. Hans

    Hans Member

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    So you get water retention from the progesterone similar to testosterone?
     
  14. OP
    Pufa

    Pufa Member

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    I'm going fully natty route for the next couple of years.. and I'll be using your advice especially with the dhea 25mg.
    But what about trt as you get older? Are you against that?
     
  15. opethfeldt

    opethfeldt Member

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    I would be pretty much castrated with such a dose of progesterone, even with 15mg DHEA. Have you tried this yourself? I have a hard time believing any male can use that much progesterone without serious T suppression.
     
  16. olive

    olive Member

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    If you don’t want to mess with the hormonal system, manipulate IGF-1 with insulin glargine and cortisol with mirtazapine. Add 5mg cialis and salbutamol and you have the ‘natty stack’ of most pro fighters.
    If you want to mess around with hormones forget about DHEA and just feed the precursor - HCG 100iu subq eod.
    If you’re willing to risk fertility add in 5mg dbol 3x per day for neurosteroid and anabolic potential.

    Edit: just read other people’s replies, don’t take progesterone lol
     
  17. OP
    Pufa

    Pufa Member

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    is the natty stack safer than hcg?
     
  18. olive

    olive Member

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    Cialis, salbutamol and mirtazapine seem safe enough. Insulin glargine is dangerous, you should have a blood glucose meter and carbs with you at all times.
     
  19. Hans

    Hans Member

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    I'm not against TRT, but I am against the abuse of steroids. If I were to use steroids, I'd do something along the lines of 50mg preg, 15mg DHEA, 5mg test and 5mg DHT daily topically. Maybe even less.
     
  20. Hans

    Hans Member

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    Lol, I have not tried it and am sceptical of it myself.
     
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