Weight Loss: Reduce Starch Or Fat?

Discussion in 'Macros & Micros' started by MightyFall, Nov 10, 2013.

  1. Dutchie

    Dutchie Member

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    @Mittir the first basic core rule of rays work,is very low pufas. so,to me there cant exist somethinh with the 'tag' high pufa peat.:)
     
  2. j.

    j. Guest

    I think Mittir might've been making some sarcastic remarks.
     
  3. j.

    j. Guest

    In what form? In my own experience, no matter how much simple sugars I consume, I don't gain weight. If I consume complex carbohydrates however, such as bread, I gain weight very quickly.
     
  4. superhuman

    superhuman Member

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    Thats awesome. Please explain some more :)

    Like have you tracked calories when you did both? what did you notice? how much calories did you consume with starch and did you gain weight? how much without starch and just sugar and did you loose fat?

    What other positive things did you notice?
     
  5. j.

    j. Guest

    Sure, if I avoid complex sugars and eat liters of OJ or something like 200 grams of dulce de leche (milk caramel) daily, I don't gain weight. Then one week I start having one or two burgers (with bread) at lunch, and gain weight that same week. When I started Peating, fat and complex carbohydrates made me gain weight, simple sugars didn't. But now only complex carbohydrates are fattening, whole milk doesn't make me fat anymore.
     
  6. Lisbon boy

    Lisbon boy Member

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    :1
     
  7. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    RP mentioned that starch ( simple or complex) are more fattening than sugar.
    There are studies that shows how sugar(glucose+fructose) increases metabolism compared to
    glucose/starch. Sugar has many advantages over glucose/starch.
    Sugar needs lot less insulin to be metabolized than starch/glucose.
    Complex starch are more likely to feed bad bacteria and increase endotoxin.
    There are several articles on sugar at Ray Peat's website.
    Persorption is another problem with starch.
    There are studies that show sugar is more efficient at repleting
    liver glcycogen storage than glucose,which plays a big role in managing stress.
     
  8. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    @superhuman
    I lost 14 lbs in 2/3 weeks when i completely switched from starch to sugar.
    That is about 10 percent of my body weight. I gain weight in days when i add starch.
    I have no doubt that starch is fattening. I used huge amount of plain sugar, not fruit juices
    when i lost weight. Now i have mostly a milk based diet with lots of added sugar and honey.
    I have lost more weight. I think calcium in milk has helped with this extra weight loss.
    But sugar increases need for nutrients by increasing metabolism.
    I have to make sure that i am getting all the extra nutrients from daily liver, vegetable broths
    , instant coffee( magnesium, niacin and potassium),milk, seafood.
    Potassium and magnesium play a big role in managing sugar metabolism.
    Fruit is ideal source of sugar but it is hard to find well ripened fruits that does not
    cause endotoxin problem.
     
  9. superhuman

    superhuman Member

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    Mittir:

    That is awesome. Did you measure calories as well in terms of when you ate starch and gained weight and calories when you removed starch and added tons of sugar etc. and lost weight?

    Did you increase total calories with the sugar or did it make you eat less total calories when you removed the starch because that is the BIG question in terms of calories :D
     
  10. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    I did not count calories or restricted calories. I always eat a lot of foods,
    never thought about limiting calories. But now i have a good idea about total
    caloric intake, since it is mostly milk and honey. It was hard to count calories
    with starch, there were so many variation in foods.
    Now, at least 300 grams of sugar from honey, table sugar and milk.
    Fat from whole milk and some coconut oil, if i eat fried foods then lots of coconut oil.
    Total caloric intake is at least 2500 and most days i eat more than that.
     
  11. superhuman

    superhuman Member

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    Mittir:

    Thanx. Well i guess that doesnt prove anything in terms of starch worse then sugar in terms of weight loss or gain because u probably ate way more calories when eating starch or products with starch :)
     
  12. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    @superhuman

    There are studies that show sugar( glucose+fructose or fructose only) increase energy expenditure and metabolism more than glucose/starch. These studies are mentioned in
    RP's writing and interviews. He has 3 articles on sugar.
     
  13. superhuman

    superhuman Member

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    Mittir:

    I know and ive read them all and find it awesome. Its just i havent seen it work for anybody still :p
     
  14. Dutchie

    Dutchie Member

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    I think that people also forget that. The supposed weigthloss from quitting starch is lost waterweigth.
     
  15. aquaman

    aquaman Member

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    This is 100% opposite to Peat's views. Unless those sugars are in the presence of high PUFA intake.

    Just saying.
     
  16. aquaman

    aquaman Member

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    How has this affected your scale weight, muscle mass and body shape?
     
  17. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    @Aquaman

    Initially i lost about 14 lbs and it resulted in decreased waist circumference.
    With weigh loss My BMI was 24. Then for a while i ate starch only for lunch
    and gained 7 lbs in a week. I go on and off eating some starch.
    I am sure for me starch causes weight gain. When i go back to complete avoidance
    of starch i loose that 7 labs again. Recently i increased protein intake by adding
    more dairy and i have lost few more pounds and gained a lot of toned muscle.
    Muscle toning started with RP eating but now i have kind of muscle i never had in my life.
    I am getting the impression that milk protein builds more muscle than meat protein.
    I do not do any kind of exercise.
     
  18. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    I think the starch is messing with your estrogen and its causing you to retain water. Yes you might have gained some fat too, but I bet most of it was fluid. Could be due to more endotoxin from bacteria putting a strain on your liver so estrogen rises. Or, maybe even an allergy. Whatever it is it definitely effects your metabolism.
     
  19. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    RP mentioned how improved thyroid function lowers water retention by lowering estrogen.
    I think that is a much slower process for most people. But, glucose/ starch's ability to increase fat, especially abdominal fat is directly related to it's ability to increase blood sugar
    and insulin. High Insulin increases fat synthesis within hours of eating.
    Same thing can happen with sucrose but we will need
    more sucrose than glucose to achieve that.
    Glycemic index of Sucrose is 65 and glucose is 100.
    GI of glucose is 50 percent higher than that of Sucrose. RP often cites a study where
    rats did not gain weight on a sucrose diet when they ate 50 percent more calories.
    Insulin will increase cortisol and cortisol will increase estrogen and lower thyroid.
    But i think that happens slowly. Endotoxin from starch will worsen everything but
    pure glucose does not have endotoxin probelm but will cause fat gain
    way more than sucrose.
    When i switch from mix of starch+sugar to complete sugar i am removing the
    fat contributed by glucose/starch and increasing metabolism through glucose+fructose.
    I am losing or gaining weight around my abdomen by adding or removing starch.
    I do not know how much water is in belly fat.
     
  20. Dutchie

    Dutchie Member

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    @Mittir

    I assume you're a woman?Are you tall and do you exercise daily/lift weigths/have an active intense job? Tonigth,after dinner when I got home I almost ate an entire jar of Palm Sugar&a bit of Manuka Honey and it kinda freaks me out....that I just ate between 1500&2000Cals. just like that out of the jar!:s .....I do feel nice&warm however and try to ease my mind with the fact that,yes if I'd given in to the temptation of eating the icecream filled with shitty ingredients for dessert while with my family I would've eaten far less.....but I'd probably had to deal with more negative issues. Atleast the palm sugar and Manuka Honey are nutritious. (although I wouldve liked Tiramisu-icecream just a damn shame,icecream generally consist of lots of ***t overe here...HFCS,gums,artificial sweeteners,soy etc.)
     
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