Weight Loss: Reduce Starch Or Fat?

MightyFall

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Wouldn't the mixture of sugar (carbs in general) and fat promote the storage of fat? I would appreciate someone explaining this to me. Thanks.
 

BaconBits

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My experience is that sugar promotes weight gain, extremely. While saturated fat not so much.
 

MightyFall

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So should I favour starch? This isn't optimal right now since it elevates my insulin levels and I'm becoming progressively very insulin resistant since quitting low carb (no insulin issues whatsoever prior to low carb) to switching a HIGH starch, moderate sugar and literally fat-free diet. My weight was slowly increasing and I felt awful.

My main goals are to improve energy, stabilise insulin and blood sugar and lose weight.
 

BaconBits

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MightyFall said:
So should I favour starch? This isn't optimal right now since it elevates my insulin levels and I'm becoming progressively very insulin resistant since quitting low carb (no insulin issues whatsoever prior to low carb) to switching a HIGH starch, moderate sugar and literally fat-free diet. My weight was slowly increasing and I felt awful.

My main goals are to improve energy, stabilise insulin and blood sugar and lose weight.

Wow, wow, how do you know you are having problems with insulin. Unless you have one of those devices that measure it, it can be a lot of other things. What symptoms are you seeing, are you getting tired after a meal and feeling like you are always hungry. Because that would be a sign of inflamatory allergic reaction.

Problem is that most of us are so messed up and under chronic stress, which shuts down the proper digestion and all the genetic predispositions come into play with allergic reactions to food. Half life of PUFAs in the body is I read somewhere like 500 days, thats almost 2 years.
 

MightyFall

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Well, I am gaining a significant amount of abdominal fat, I am on a blood sugar roller coaster and have become extremely sensitive to any form of carbohydrate food, whether mixed with protein or not, my brain fog has started to affect my academic performance as a student and my everyday life because it has become so severe and I constantly yawn throughout the day.

I have also considered adrenal fatigue, but it feels more like insulin resistance since my blood tests don't indicate low thyroid function, low cortisol levels etc. (in fact my blood tests were very good, except for a slightly blood sugar reading). Insulin resistance is the only thing I can consider.

The strange thing is, I am not overweight (nearly there now!), and never was. Neither am I a fan of PUFAs (except for chicken). I find it difficult to recover from cardio or strength exercises. I have tried Matt Stone's protocol but felt progressively worse. Ray Peat is seriously the last straw... I returned to low carb briefly but I felt weaker and my brain fog worsened.
 

Ari

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Before doing any worrying or intense looking into your diet or biological responses, first cut out all starches.

Cutting out starch when healing is so crucial to the peat philosophy that continuing on in the way that you are (high starch, moderate sugar) really doesn't make sense.

Btw starch is more fat forming than sugar or fat. Try for a diet where at least 60% of calories comes from sugars as reported on cronometer. You will probably begin to become leaner within a few days.
 

Ari

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BaconBits said:
My experience is that sugar promotes weight gain, extremely. While saturated fat not so much.

I have found the opposite - when speaking about natural sugars.

Fruit/Fruit juice = lean
 

BaconBits

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MightyFall said:
Well, I am gaining a significant amount of abdominal fat, I am on a blood sugar roller coaster and have become extremely sensitive to any form of carbohydrate food, whether mixed with protein or not, my brain fog has started to affect my academic performance as a student and my everyday life because it has become so severe and I constantly yawn throughout the day.

I have also considered adrenal fatigue, but it feels more like insulin resistance since my blood tests don't indicate low thyroid function, low cortisol levels etc. (in fact my blood tests were very good, except for a slightly blood sugar reading). Insulin resistance is the only thing I can consider.

The strange thing is, I am not overweight (nearly there now!), and never was. Neither am I a fan of PUFAs (except for chicken). I find it difficult to recover from cardio or strength exercises. I have tried Matt Stone's protocol but felt progressively worse. Ray Peat is seriously the last straw... I returned to low carb briefly but I felt weaker and my brain fog worsened.

Looks like you have adrenal problems, quite severe.
 

caroline

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I have not found sugar causing weight gain in the least bit, although prior to eating this way, I believed sugar was the root of all evils and caused weight gain. Starch on the other hand, is infinitely more challenging for me to digest properly and I notice immediate bloat in the abdomen. In fact, since switching from honey as my sugar source to white sugar, I feel even better.

Any time I have felt worse eating this way, it has been after starch--potatoes, non-recommended cheese, and non-recommended fruits. And like you, I was not used to eating anything sweet prior to this and when I did, I would have terrible reactions. Has completely changed since eating this way. My experience has been that the best result for me is to drop all starch and primarily stick with liquids, and small quantities of meats, seafood, etc.
 

Dutchie

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Ari said:
Before doing any worrying or intense looking into your diet or biological responses, first cut out all starches.

Cutting out starch when healing is so crucial to the peat philosophy that continuing on in the way that you are (high starch, moderate sugar) really doesn't make sense.

Btw starch is more fat forming than sugar or fat. Try for a diet where at least 60% of calories comes from sugars as reported on cronometer. You will probably begin to become leaner within a few days.

I dont know about starch being fat forming.....i think it greatly depends on the type of starch. It *seems* that all grains arent regarded as optimal by my body....and i seem to need some sort of fiber in my meal.

Anyway,i was wondering if root veggies like parsnip,turnips,beets,pumpkin etc. Are considered significant starch sources as well and yellow blackish plantain?(im not worried about beta carotene and tryptophan).
To me it seems theyre not significant starchsources since they contain sugars as well.

Personally i think all grains and legumes are the highest starchsources and (sweet)potato to a lesser extend.
 

Ari

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Yes, even though those contain sugar, they are still significant sources of starch.

A fruit with 'acceptable' amounts of starch would be a very ripe banana, but it is still not peat recommended.

Honestly, if you are having problems then there is no point trying to justify starch to yourself.
 

Dutchie

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Ari said:
Yes, even though those contain sugar, they are still significant sources of starch.

A fruit with 'acceptable' amounts of starch would be a very ripe banana, but it is still not peat recommended.

Honestly, if you are having problems then there is no point trying to justify starch to yourself.

I dont think root veggies,pumpkin and plantain come near the starchcontent of grains,legumes and corn.

Personally,im having a tough time making up meals that are comppetely starchfree.
Also i dont believe starch in abovementioned foods are that harmful.
Had sauteed ripe plantain with orange marinated Pangasius fish. If only i couldve tasted something of it,bc i have a cold.

Anyway,the plantain really warmed me but i found the grilled fish gave me an excited feeling,despite tasting nothing of it. So,it 'seems' my body prefers fruits&natural sugars but it seems i need to add an awful lot of salt to get&stay warm.....and like said im having a hard time trying to come up with meals/dinners.....i believe some veggies are (almost) entirely fibers and sugars like bell peppers,onions,zuchinni,butternut,beets,jerusalem artichoke,carrots/parsnips etc.
 

MightyFall

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Today I completely eliminated starch and focused on saturated fat and sugar... felt like a real Peatarian... lol.

Anyway, I noticed a boost after eating sugar but then felt the crash a few minutes later, a really heavy one too. I also have a mild headache. I know a lot of people with damaged metabolisms experience this.

Ari, will this be corrected overtime?
 

Dutchie

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Funny thing is also...years ago when I did a foodintolerance test. The foods were divided in different categories...you had category for vegetables,protein,dairy,fruit,other sweeteners,starchy grains and other starch sources. Potato was listed amongst the vegetables as was parsnip&beets....the non-grain starches list didn't list the potato. So that makes me wonder why potato is categorised as high starch source....maybe there's something more to it,sorta like an inbetween starch/sugar?
 

Ari

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MightyFall said:
Today I completely eliminated starch and focused on saturated fat and sugar... felt like a real Peatarian... lol.

Anyway, I noticed a boost after eating sugar but then felt the crash a few minutes later, a really heavy one too. I also have a mild headache. I know a lot of people with damaged metabolisms experience this.

Ari, will this be corrected overtime?

Great to hear!

As far as sugar causing a crash, here is a post that talks about the issue, of special relevance is the first answer talking about SIBO:

http://peatarian.com/8496/why-does-oran ... poglycemia

Don't listen to that person's advice to restrict fructose/sucrose though, that's the kind of advice that leads people straight to eating disorder land.

-----------------

I remember when I first added orange juice to my diet, I spent the whole first day drinking 2 cups worth and then passing out for 30 minutes; rinse and repeat. But it wasn't the type of crash that I got when I ate bad foods, because I always woke up feeling better then when I slept, and my skin glowed more as well, with softer hair - that's what sold me. It does get better with time yes, I can currently drink a cup of orange juice unsalted and feel immediate warmth and energy. Before I would have to heavily salt it and then run straight to my red light station to warm up.

I don't get this same reaction when I eat something like dates or even whole oranges, so there must be something to do with fiber that helps out the negative reaction. The most optimal diet possible would probably have only real fruits for sugar. This would probably block any crashes that might happen.

I have since tried experimenting with eating a carrot along with the orange juice but that is still in progress, as I don't want to eat too many carrots daily.

If you are referring to pure sugar though, like granulated, I don't have any experience in that area as I don't like how it messes with my teeth (slimy).

------------------

As far as the headache goes, see if you can't solve that asap. Because there are so many things that cause headaches, it would be bad to let it slip, and have it be something that stays around for weeks, because then you will start questioning every single aspect of your diet to solve it, which is very stressful.
 

Ari

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Dutchie said:
Funny thing is also...years ago when I did a foodintolerance test. The foods were divided in different categories...you had category for vegetables,protein,dairy,fruit,other sweeteners,starchy grains and other starch sources. Potato was listed amongst the vegetables as was parsnip&beets....the non-grain starches list didn't list the potato. So that makes me wonder why potato is categorised as high starch source....maybe there's something more to it,sorta like an inbetween starch/sugar?

Well, potatoes are very well digested and tolerated by many people. I know Jenn here swears by them. Even Peat says that the potato juice is a great thing to have. They have the nutritional profile of kind of... its a mix really, they have sugars and vitamins like a fruit, proteins like a meat, calcium like dairy, but without a doubt they are still a very large source of starch.

I have to ask at this point, why are you so bent on getting starchy foods? Is it financial or comfort?

As far as making meals it's quite easy without starch. Eggs/Dairy/Fruit. You can live off of that short list, and they can all mix in a meal as well.

For an example. I just ate 3 eggs, 2 oz parmigianno regianno, 28 dates, 1 square chocolate,2 cups OJ. That's a lot of cals, and no starch is needed.
 

Ari

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bradley said:
did you eat all of that in one sitting? that's almost 3000 calories.

I've got this tiny dried dates... the brand name is mariani or something. Cronometer says the meal was only around 1000 cals.


There's no way I could put down 3000 in one meal :D . That's how much I eat per day
 

aquaman

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MightyFall said:
Neither am I a fan of PUFAs (except for chicken). I

Pretty much any processed food or restaurant food is full of PUFAs from vegetable oils.
 

aquaman

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BaconBits said:
My experience is that sugar promotes weight gain, extremely. While saturated fat not so much.

This is against Peat's advice. He says that sugar increases calories burned so doesn't have this effect.
 
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