Found this transcript on the net, done by Geneviève Devereaux
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Re: Weight Gain, KMUD Herb Doctors, 2013
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Transcription by Geneviève Devereaux
[justify]Int: What is the benefit of your past experience?
RP: University of Oregon. I graduated in 1972 specialising in physiology and biochemistry. Worked with a diet company, counselling people in weight loss, 42 years ago
Int: You do have a very active Facebook page. There’s a pretty lively debate and forum. How can people adopt your diet and not expect any weight gain? Extra weight around the abdomen in relation to your specifics to diet.
RP: I advise eating cheese because of its high calcium and protein content, but you have to consider the calories cause some cheese has practically no fat and some are like a soft butter.
Functional energy reserve coupled with a healthy metabolism and this is your expertise. What constitutes as a healthy metabolism, as we know it. Glucose oxidation versus the opposite the fatty acid metabolism that occurs with stress?
Int: If somebody has an unhealthy metabolism, someone will have a hard time burning a 1200, 1000 calories a day?
RP: There was a study about 30 or 40 years ago in which doctors use to follow the textbook standard that everyone can lose weight, if they eat less than 1700 calories a day because that was a study done in the 20s or 30s on healthy people and so they put a group of women who claimed that they were gaining weight on a thousand calories and put them in a closed ward and actually counted how much food they were eating and some of them could maintain their weight on 700 calories a day especially those who had dieted a lot because several adaption happen on chronic dieting. The thyroid slows down and the muscle tissues atrophy from the stress of dieting and if you think of the stress metabolism as very similar to the diabetic metabolism, basically you shift over to burning fat rather than sugar. At rest your brain and red blood cells needs sugar and they will keep burning sugar regardless of where they get it. If you do not eat enough of the necessary nutrients your body will convert your muscles to sugar to keep feeding the brain what it needs and if you are eating enough sugar or things that will turn into sugar your body doesn’t have to break down its own tissues to make the necessary glucose for your blood cells and brains and in that condition, your muscles at rest don’t require practically any glucose and they will do fine on a pure fat diet but that’s the resting muscle. If your muscles are under stress, very intense exercise the muscles will begin burning almost pure sugar so it is the massive muscle at rest that will burn fat calories and leave the protein for the functioning tissues and the sugar to sustain your essential brain and immune systems and such…
Int: So this is why you’re an advocate of muscle building, cause it then helps convert fat for fuel rather than just using the sugar?
RP: And when the muscle is stressed it begins actually producing estrogen, and when your building muscle in a safe way, the muscle begins to produce testosterone, which helps the rest of the body. The heart is one of the main targets of testosterone, so well developed skeletal muscles are actually sustaining the heart muscle as well as the brain and the lung which needs stabilising and anti-inflammatory steroids
Well yeah everything that tends to kill you, shrinks your muscles. Frailty is the basic thing that associates with ageing. Bones and muscles go away at the same rate of ageing.
Int: The diet starvation model would than force your body to utilise stored fat for energy is that correct?
RP: Your body will need to make some sugar for your brain, so it starts to break down tissue. The first to go is your thymus. In just a few hours they use to think that adults do not have a significant amount of thymus tissue. They looked at people who dieted after being sick.
Even if you die slowly after a traumatic incident, your thymus is gone. It just takes a few hours of intense stress for the thymus to be dissolved, so a long fast will completely devastate your thyroid as it turns into sugar very quickly. The skin is relatively dispensable in the long run so your skin will atrophy very quickly during a fast or even a low calorie diet and then the muscles will provide sugar for your brain as necessary.
Women I use to see who went through a weight loss diet, you could not find a bicep muscle or a calf muscle. They would try to tighten their muscle and they could not feel of find anything, even in their upper arm or lower leg. Muscle was the size of a person’s index finger. So when they started eating a good diet, the first thing that would happen would be pounds of water loss. Their tissue would suddenly come out of the stress condition and get rids of some of the stored water then the muscle would start growing. In the first week they might lose ten or fifteen pounds of water and then for about a month they would start putting on weight as their muscles start growing.
We would have people measure waist and thighs and hips and each week they would grow smaller as they gain weight.
Int: So what about athletes, people who are very thin and lean?
RP: There was a study using radioactive testosterone that saw the muscle atrophy and compared them to weight lifters, who had developed huge skeletal muscles and with these isotopes they could make a picture of their heart, lungs and brain and so on , all of their tissues had atrophied so that the lean long distance runners also had lean, flabby hearts, very thin hearts.
A lot of things happen. Fertility is often reduced cause the testosterone goes down. The very immediate thing that you can see, even early low intensity exercise is that the lungs lose some of their ability to diffuse oxygen and carbon dioxide out. The actual substance of the lungs, the air sacs thicken with just an early moderate amount of intensive exercise.
It’s a kind of anaemia. Mild inflammation and sports anaemia is a recognised thing. It’s a combination of all of those little stresses. It’s a shift away from the anabolic testosterone. Females are always relatively anaemic cause of the influence of the balance of estrogen. Sports anaemia is a result of the effect of estrogen on the blood system.
So the long distance runner has a deformed heart and lung compared to the body builder
Anything that can increases your cortisol can interfere with your metabolism. Serotonin, estrogen both lowering your body temperature and any stresses. So a sluggish digestion can increase serotonin and estrogen.
Yeah the bowels is one of the ways to get rid of unneeded estrogen by ways of the liver.
And if your bowel is sluggish and you reabsorb it affects your whole hormonal system bringing up the stress hormones.
So eating carrots and taking liver herbs like cascara can help sluggish bowels
And just eating what you would consider the most delicious foods will secrete juices to help digest faster.
So enjoy your food
Just doing an occasional squatting or getting some five pound dumb bells and lifting those in a few different motions
Int: Your saying essential that muscle in its own right will build glucose and that would improve the metabolic rate.
RP: Foamy urine as an indicator of excess excretion of steroid hormones.
In the morning you have been exposed to several hours of darkness and Darkness is very stressful. Just staying indoors too much gives your chronic stress form the absence of light. Everyone in the morning is at their peak of being exposed to stress hormones from the darkness and during stress like starvation, the hormones first try to mobilise energy production and that during the night that involves increased free fatty acids sorta like doing a little marathon during the night, as far as the shift to fatty acid goes, and your liver if it is well nourished and supplied with thyroid hormones will process steroids such as estrogen and cortisol which the liver will attach either sulphate or sugar, glucaronic acid to make it water soluble so it can leave the blood stream to the kidney, excreted and either attached to the sulphate or the sugar it is like a soap. It is oily at one end and water soluble at the other so it makes foam and during the night the fatty acids can be processed at the same way. The liver especially recognises the end saturated fatty acids and whatever arrives during the night is likely to contribute to that morning foam.
Int: So given a person is consuming enough sugar to stock their liver for the night time fast…or I know you’re an advocate of ice cream before sleep or sipping on a little oj when they awake is it still possible to have foamy urine?
RP: Yeah the stress always occurs, but if you’re sleeping soundly and deeply there is less intense damage from the stress, so if you stay awake in the dark you would probably have super foamy urine in the morning.
Int: This again would be another indicator of insufficient sugar to block stress hormones and there system is reasonally stressed?
RP: Yeah I think so and same thing for females.
Int: The shift in fat content or fat makeup and the recommendations our listeners have heard in terms of switching to saturated fats, the need to avoid pufa if you really wanna make a change to your physiology but you have said it is difficult to avoid it totally?
RP: The natural foods milk, beef, lamb, coconut oil, these all have 2 – 3% unsaturated, polyunsaturated fats and if you eat a tiny bit more than you are going to burn right away, some of it is going to be stored in your fat tissue and what is stored is preferentially polyunsaturated fat. Your body recognises that the good stuff to burn right away is the saturated fat, right after the sugars so it selectively doesn’t burn the poly unsaturated fats quickly and so it is the most likely to be stored but then your fat is the same way, the fat cells prefer to burn saturated fats so whatever you have stored in your fats by eating more than you needed, over time your fat cells use up a percentage of the stored saturated fats and increase the storage of the percentage polyunsaturated fats so as you get older and fatter or even if you don’t get fatter your fat tissue becomes more polyunsaturated, so each time you become hungry or stressed and draw on your fat stores for energy, it is more anti thyroid and pro estrogenic because of its increased polyunsaturation in time.
I only recommend a small teaspoon of coconut oil three times a day.
Int: Is there a way for people to assess their metabolic way given that is driving how well they lose or gain weight?
RP: One way is to look at everything at a food analysis chart and measure the amount of calories you are eating every day.
Another way is to calculate or take note of the fluid you drink, the total fluid intake a day and then measure the total volume of urine output in the same period of time and the difference is what is evaporated and in the average level of activity and the average relative humidity, a person will evaporate a liter per thousand of calories burned so if you only have a missing liter of fluid a day, you know you are only burning 1000 calories.
Int: So if someone gets half a gallon of fluid a day and they only pee out a couple cups you know their system has very low or no high thyroid?
RP: So a pint out of 2 liters that’s a 1500 calorie burning so that’s not very much either.
Int: Limit exposure to estrogen for its negative effects? estrogen dominant females so you don’t always take it for granted that would be overweight with overweight tendencies but you can get slender women based on the same conditions.
RP: Yeah in the animal studies they’ve seen that estrogen excites some of the metabolic processes while slowing others down. It can make some of the animals hyperactive but very slender and in people there are cases where it can do the same things. It can make a women tense, very hyperactive and oversensitive and very skinny or it can do the other, it can turn on the stress metabolism while it slows the metabolism, lowering the body temperature for example and that can lead to excess fat storage.
Int: Do you know what the biological preference is for driving it in one or the other direction?
RP: Um, no.
Int: This is David, hello. I am from Missouri. I have downloaded every podcast you have done and sometimes I have listened to several of these as I drive and I love it. One question is that I have a very weak knee so I have been experimenting with a rebounder. I do very light bouncing and running in place of jogging and I do that several times a day. What do you think of that?
RP: I don’t know if there is much benefit in bouncing. It does strengthen your bones I guess - The compression and concussion. It is something that builds more massive muscle and stress, even though it isn’t fatiguing. Just resistance training in little bursts will help raise your energy and strengthen the connective tissues.
Yeah make the muscle know that it has been active. Warm it enough a little, but not enough to run outta breath or anything.
Int: What about yoga? Holding those postures where you’re holding the muscles, like a semi stressed state but then relaxing it?
RP: Yeah that kinda stress is good for the muscle.
Int: I’ve been using the 250 watt bulbs you have recommended. Do you think it is useful to use those lights right before bed say for like 15 – 30 minutes and when you rise in the morning?
RP: Yeah I think so and I am basing those studies done on plant tissues about 30 or 40 years ago. They found that any kind of tissue that was put in sunlight or UV light got some excited free radicals or excited electrons and shining red light on those would immediately quench those that have been excited, and when you keep living tissue in the dark, it keeps building up those excited electrons over a period of 30 minutes or so you can see an increase in them.
Int: So is dreaming a sign that you are under some degree of stress through the night rather than being in a deep sleep where you don’t remember your dreams when you wake up?
RP: Yeah the metabolism has these cycles. The 24 hour cycle is a basic thing but it is sub divided into about 90 minute cycle of ups and down where the blood sugar and adrenaline and everything is mobilised a little bit and if your liver is running short on fuel the cycles become more intense and the dream cycles go with drops in the blood sugar and surges of the nerve chemicals such as adrenaline.
Int: So if you were having a great dream that was exhilarating and you felt really good would that still be the case as it causes you to awaken?
RP: Um yeah except that’s probably your whole system recognises that it has been rested and it’s time to get up and eat something.
Int: And that’s often why you have dreams early in the morning because you’ve run outta sugar at that point?
Well that makes sense. Well I’ll be darned.
RP: If your body is well rested from 6 – 8 hours of sleep the dreams are likely to have a very pleasant quality, getting ready to go out and do something.
It’s getting you ready to wake up.
Int: I am calling from down the road. I turned the radio on in the midst of the subject of urinating and taking in fluids. My question is if you take in half a gallon of fluid a day and you pee out most of it is that healthy or unhealthy?
RP: That shows you aren’t evaporating very much so in an extremely humid climate that wouldn’t be so bad but if you’re indoors with a relative humidity of about 50 then it means that your metabolism is slow and not producing much heat.
Int: So you want a certain amount of evaporation when the atmosphere is in fact dry?
RP: Yeah very healthy 12 – 15 year old people burn fuel very wastefully but that’s when the people are least likely to die when they are wasting fuel like crazy.
Int: When you say least likely to die?
RP: Yeah so around 12 – 15 year olds healthiest and are least likely to die.
Yeah it looks like a waste to eat thousands of calories a dqy when you aren’t doing anything but it is a good for you.
Yeah the wasteful energy metabolism.
Int: So if you burn or evaporate half of what you drink that is pretty much normal in our climate?
If you maybe drink three quart liquid and you pee out a quarter and a half?
So that’s about an average norm cause we don’t have that high humidity.
Int: Hi Dr Peat. This is a fascinating show. I’m from southern some where. I am reading one side effect of anti anxiety or anti depressant drugs is weight gain you know how this works? You know how these drugs work at all?
RP: If they increase your exposure to serotonin or decrease your adrenaline, they will slow your metabolic rate and make it harder to burn calories.
Int: I’m reading also that there is no conclusive study relating a low serotonin level to any mental state or anyway…
RP: Yeah they’re not even sure how those SSRIs work?
Int: So how are these antidepressant making people feel better?
RP: Oh they all work in slightly different ways so you have to think of each one individually. Maybe we should have a special time to go over those specific chemicals.
Int: So back to the ideal diet…
So if you wanted to lose weight there isn’t much room for anything else if you only burn 700 calories a day?
RP: If you use one percent butter fat milk that’s only 400 calories per quart, where whole milk would be almost twice that much and one of the tricks of orange juice is that there are some good chemicals in it which are anti-estrogenic and some of the tropical fruits are anti-estrogen. They are very important for the metabolism as well as the minerals and type of sugars and such.
Int: So there are compounds in the orange juice that are anti estrogenic
RP: And with milk it’s not just the protein but the calcium is very important as an anti inflammatory, anti stress, anti depressant and so on. People who eat the same calories without milk are much more likely to be fat compared to regular milk drinkers.
Int: Tell us about your experience when you were in Finland and Russia?
RP: In Russia and the slovic countries in general, I found that there were no reliably good milk in the cities and people all had bad teeth and were fat (hahhaaahha) and food was very cheap but milk was scarce and protein in general weren’t as cheap as the average food but crossing over the border into Finland, it was very impressive to see how many stores had displays of cheese in the windows, and the people were all healthy looking and slender (hahahha) compared to the other side of the border.
Int: We notice the same part in France. You go to France and they all eat cheese and they’re all very slender. , so what you’re saying is 400 calories from orange juice is not comparative to 400 calories from baked potatoes and rice?
RP: Definitely not. It stimulates the metabolism and supresses the stress hormones.
Int: Where as 400 calories from baked potatoes and rice would increase your stress hormones and suppress your metabolism?
RP: Yeah and then there is the matter of the starch particles. If you don’t have some saturated fat with them the starch particles can set up a whole pattern of stress and entry by entering your blood stream, which people taking supplements should be careful to avoid anything with particles such as titanium dioxide or silica.
Those are very allergenic particles that are in all supplements practically.
Those things getting into the blood stream and trigger the stress hormones. Obesity is the least of the things they contribute to…
Int: I’ve been trying to lose some weight and I’ve been weighing myself periodically at night and in the morning. I lose about five pounds of weight sleeping. Some nights I’ve urinate, sometimes I don’t and I wonder where this five pounds go? Is it with heat and is there a relation between being cold at night and whether you lose weight in colder or warmer climates?
RP: It depends on how you respond to the cold. Some people steam up the windows in the bedroom so the window runs water down them. It collects at the bottom of the window sill in the morning. Those are the people who lose a lot of weight by evaporation at the night. You can see the water collecting on the cooler surfaces.
Int: And then people in warmer climates are warmer during the night so their metabolisms stay up at night so they are probably thinner because of that?
RP: When your body temperature drops in the night because you are slowing it down to reduce the stress, but if you reach a certain temperature, you turn on the inflammatory, stress producing hormones so you not only get the darkness but the cold extremities.
Int: So it’s better to be comfortable if you’re trying to shed weight at night? Correct?
RP: Yeah so if your feet reach 90 degree Fahrenheit they’re producing toxic, stress inducing substances.
Int: So don’t run around barefoot with cold feet.
RP: For some people taking a warm foot bath at bed time and then putting on socks and a warm cap sleep better.
Int: I’m calling from Phillipsville. 15 miles up the road. You said something about eating delicious foods but you didn’t say what foods they were?
RP: It varies with the person but you should avoid things that affect your metabolism harmfully like starches and pufa and some plant materials are toxic but otherwise what appeals…
Int: Is it good to eat whole grains?
RP: There is almost nothing in value in those.
Int: Even if it is not processed? I don’t mean like white rice!
RP: Well white rice is relatively free of irritants and toxics but it has very little of food value in it.
Int: But I thought brown rice had a lot of nutrients. What about ice cream? Is that good for you?
RP: Milk contains a good balance all in itself cause it has some fat, protein and some sugar.
Well half and half is mostly cream and it’s okay if it goes with other foods like protein and sugars, but ah…
Int: What about other fruit juices?
RP: Many juices are good. It’s the minerals and antioxidants as well as the sugars that are important but grapefruit juices, for example has a chemical that causes the liver to increase estrogen in the body. Grape juice is very good as long as you consider the calories. It has more concentrated calories than orange juice. Some tropical fruits are very good. Guava for example is very good. Carrot juice is another that should be avoided, except in small amounts, cause of the high carotene content. It antagonises both thyroid and progesterone.
Int: What’s good for thyroid? What’s good for stimulating your metabolism so you burn calories quicker but you don’t have an over active thyroid?
RP: Um milk, cheese and some of the fruit juices are the best things.
Int: Right so 400 calories of fruit juice isn’t the same as 400 calories of brown rice? The 400 calories of brown rice is going to be much more metabolically suppressive than the 400 calories from fruit juice.
Thanks Doctor Peat for your wisdom. Tune in for next month.[/justify]