We Were Warned: Freedom To Chains - Paul Harvey

postman

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Gold can be mined anytime one wishes. One can certainly hoard it, but there's plenty of gold in the possession of private hands. It can never be totally controlled.

This is not a real problem.
What is so inherently good about it?
Oh yes, I'm going to open a gold mine in my back yard!

I never said fiat money is inherently good... I suggest you guys study about the monetary system in the US during the colonial time all the way up until now. Debt-free fiat is money of the people, by the people, for the people. This is a pretty good documentary about it Changing to a gold-based system would solve absolutely nothing except stop run-away inflation. Adopting gold as money doesn't mean that fractional reserve banking is abolished, or that private central banking is abolished, or that government borrowing is abolished, or that usury is abolished, or that the power of the most powerful people in the world, the people who run the current system, is abolished.

It's like saying communism isn't inherently bad, it just depends on who's at the head of the party.

When will people learn ?
So I take it you're an anarchist? All government is communism and evil? The few short times when governments issued debt-free fiat paper money it worked wonderfully, so you can't really use a historical argument against it.
 

yerrag

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Debt-free fiat
Debt-free fiat is just good if thst means it is backed by physical goods, not just an empty promise.

On the other hand, what we have come to know as fiat money these days is money simply backed by the military might of the US government. Rome was slightly better when in its decaying years used copper as a stand-in for gold.
 

postman

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Debt-free fiat is just good if thst means it is backed by physical goods, not just an empty promise.

On the other hand, what we have come to know as fiat money these days is money simply backed by the military might of the US government. Rome was slightly better when in its decaying years used copper as a stand-in for gold.
Fiat means by decree, if a currency is backed by physical goods then it is not a fiat currency. Fiat currencies have value because governments make laws that say that the fiat currency must be accepted as a debt payment, and governments usually require taxes to be paid in their fiat currency. You're thinking of the petro-dollar, the stance that the US dollar has as sort of a global reserve currency that's being used by various governments to pay each other even when the US is not involved, yes that is essentially backed up by the might of the US military.

Please watch the documentary by the way, I really think you would enjoy it, if you enjoy American history and the idea of America.
 

burtlancast

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Oh yes, I'm going to open a gold mine in my back yard!

I never said fiat money is inherently good... I suggest you guys study about the monetary system in the US during the colonial time all the way up until now. Debt-free fiat is money of the people, by the people, for the people. This is a pretty good documentary about it Changing to a gold-based system would solve absolutely nothing except stop run-away inflation. Adopting gold as money doesn't mean that fractional reserve banking is abolished, or that private central banking is abolished, or that government borrowing is abolished, or that usury is abolished, or that the power of the most powerful people in the world, the people who run the current system, is abolished.


So I take it you're an anarchist? All government is communism and evil? The few short times when governments issued debt-free fiat paper money it worked wonderfully, so you can't really use a historical argument against it.


HOW COLLECTIVISTS CREATE THEIR OWN OPPOSITION
AND HOW NOT TO BE FOOLED BY IT

THE MONEY MASTERS
The Money Masters is a video documentary based upon a 1998 book by the
same title written by Bill Still. It is an excellent production with sound history and
professionally created images. It tells the story of our debauched money system in an
entertaining and convincing manner.

There is just one problem with it. It offers a false solution – which is to say that it offers no solution at all.

The alleged solution is that we should abandon our present fiat money system and adopt another one very much like it. Yes, it advocates fiat money! The proposal is that we should take the power to create money-out-of-nothing away from those big, bad bankers and turn it over to those nice, trustworthy politicians where, supposedly, it will be used for the benefit of “the people.”

It is naïve to think that politicians are any more trustworthy than
bankers. It is equally naïve to think that, because politicians are elected, they will protect the people they represent.


The reality of present-day “democracy” is that politicians serve special interests with financial clout, not voters. With enough money, votes can be purchased through media exposure. Politicians with the largest campaign budgets are almost always the winners. Turning over control of the Fed to the politicians would change nothing but the outward appearance.

The solution is not to politicize the Federal Reserve. It is to abolish it.

The problem with money created out of nothing is not who does it but that it is
done at all. The solution to fiat money is not more fiat money. It is real money based on tangible assets, and none has yet been discovered that serves as well as gold or
silver.

The assertion in The Money Masters that wooden sticks were successfully used
in England as money is grossly misleading. Tally sticks were occasionally used like
government-issued script that could be applied to the payment of taxes, but at no time
in history were they ever used as a medium of exchange for substantial economic
transactions. To propose that we now can live with fiat money based on that myth is a
non-solution that is irrational and dishonest.
 

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burtlancast

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postman

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HOW COLLECTIVISTS CREATE THEIR OWN OPPOSITION
AND HOW NOT TO BE FOOLED BY IT

THE MONEY MASTERS
The Money Masters is a video documentary based upon a 1998 book by the
same title written by Bill Still. It is an excellent production with sound history and
professionally created images. It tells the story of our debauched money system in an
entertaining and convincing manner.

There is just one problem with it. It offers a false solution – which is to say that it offers no solution at all.

The alleged solution is that we should abandon our present fiat money system and adopt another one very much like it. Yes, it advocates fiat money! The proposal is that we should take the power to create money-out-of-nothing away from those big, bad bankers and turn it over to those nice, trustworthy politicians where, supposedly, it will be used for the benefit of “the people.”

It is naïve to think that politicians are any more trustworthy than
bankers. It is equally naïve to think that, because politicians are elected, they will protect the people they represent.


The reality of present-day “democracy” is that politicians serve special interests with financial clout, not voters. With enough money, votes can be purchased through media exposure. Politicians with the largest campaign budgets are almost always the winners. Turning over control of the Fed to the politicians would change nothing but the outward appearance.

The solution is not to politicize the Federal Reserve. It is to abolish it.

The problem with money created out of nothing is not who does it but that it is
done at all. The solution to fiat money is not more fiat money. It is real money based on tangible assets, and none has yet been discovered that serves as well as gold or
silver.

The assertion in The Money Masters that wooden sticks were successfully used
in England as money is grossly misleading. Tally sticks were occasionally used like
government-issued script that could be applied to the payment of taxes, but at no time
in history were they ever used as a medium of exchange for substantial economic
transactions. To propose that we now can live with fiat money based on that myth is a
non-solution that is irrational and dishonest.
Do you want to abolish the United States as well? What is the role of government if it can't even make its own currency? Of course government is not a perfect solution but it is preferable to the alternative, the feudalist type system in which The Owners have direct command and control of everything. At least with a republic those evil powers have to convince and con the people to acheive their goals, but you instead just want to hand them the keys to the castle. If the government doesn't control the issuance of currency then the richest megawealthy globalist elite class will, they control it today and they would control it under your type of system as well.

Forget about the tally sticks. Some successful debt-free fiats would be the pre-USA contintal scrips and Abraham Lincolns greenback. Some people assert that Hitler implemented a debt free currency but I haven't looked into that so I don't know, but it would explain Nazi Germany's economic miracle.
 

yerrag

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Do you want to abolish the United States as well? What is the role of government if it can't even make its own currency? Of course government is not a perfect solution but it is preferable to the alternative, the feudalist type system in which The Owners have direct command and control of everything. At least with a republic those evil powers have to convince and con the people to acheive their goals, but you instead just want to hand them the keys to the castle. If the government doesn't control the issuance of currency then the richest megawealthy globalist elite class will, they control it today and they would control it under your type of system as well.

Forget about the tally sticks. Some successful debt-free fiats would be the pre-USA contintal scrips and Abraham Lincolns greenback. Some people assert that Hitler implemented a debt free currency but I haven't looked into that so I don't know, but it would explain Nazi Germany's economic miracle.
I can't understand why you would trust politicians enough to let them decide for you in what way you are paid for your labor, by granting them the license to issue money in whatever way they choose to.
 

burtlancast

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As if Bill Still is some sort of reference: the guy has been a mouthpiece for the system ever since we've heard of him.

He's claiming arabs were responsible for 911, and has been thoroughly debunked on these forums before.

Read my comments on his rebuttal to Griffin: the guy is a total fraud.
 
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burtlancast

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What is the role of government if it can't even make its own currency?

Governments existed before the introduction of paper currency.

You seem to have very naive views about banking: read Edward Griffin's book on the Federal reserve and you'll understand better the issues at hand.
 

postman

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I can't understand why you would trust politicians enough to let them decide for you in what way you are paid for your labor, by granting them the license to issue money in whatever way they choose to.
Why would you trust any government with anything then? Are you an anarchist? All of your guys arguments against the government controlling the currency can be applied to just about evertyhing else the government does. What makes this different?

As if Bill Still is some sort of reference: the guy has been a mouthpiece for the system ever since we've heard of him.

He's claiming arabs were responsible for 911, and has been thoroughly debunked on these forums before.

Read my comments on his rebuttal to Griffin: the guy is a total fraud.
Griffin a fraud who always covers for organized jewish supremacists.

Governments existed before the introduction of paper currency.

You seem to have very naive views about banking: read Edward Griffin's book on the Federal reserve and you'll understand better the issues at hand.
You should read Eustace Mullins book on the federal reserve. You know, the book that Griffin plagiarized.
 

yerrag

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Why would you trust any government with anything then? Are you an anarchist? All of your guys arguments against the government controlling the currency can be applied to just about evertyhing else the government does. What makes this different?
Why don't you trust yourself enough to need the state to do everything for you?
 

yerrag

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yerrag

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Plainspeak: Because I trust myself more than I trust a politician to do what's best for me and for everybody else
 

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