"We Are All Different" BS Rationale

[TheBeard]

The 7 billion of us are all Homo Sapiens.
We all belong to the same order, suborder, family, family, and specie.

I don't personally know many lions, but whenever I watch Discovery Channel they all seem to have the same diet and be ok with it.

Same goes for antilopes, gorillas, and as many wild animals as I can name.

Yet, we are different. We have long been separated from our natural original diet, and are battling to find it back.
Many claim to know what our ancestors used to eat, yet there is not one common agreement.
Which we usually boil down to : we are all different, there is no one size fits all, what I eat is not suitable for my neighbor.

I would love to hear intelligent physiological explanations as much as philosophical exception for this "human exception".

 

[schultz]

Some things that come to mind are that we are omnivores, and not herbivores or carnivores, so we are able to consume a wider variety of foods. On top of that we can process things with heat, mechanically, or by pickling, fermentation, etc. and combine ingredients and all that. This gives us a wide variety of foods. Humans also live in many different areas around the world climate-wise (thanks to our ingenuity) and so historically have had to make do with the things in the area, whereas most animals are confined to one region or are migratory.

Humans also live a long time compared to other animals and can stop and think about the food we eat and wonder if it is making us sick. Our society is set up so that even sickly people can get food from the grocery store no problem (whereas if that person had to hunt or forage they may not do so well). These people may have compromised digestion and not do well on foods that normal healthy people would be okay with.

That's maybe the best I can do lol. Other people will probably chime in with something better.

I did my best to make an argument, but for the most part I lean more towards the idea that we are all closer to being the same than we realize. Cultural differences in food as children dictate some of our adult choices, but I think that there is a certain kind of diet that should work for all humans. Not only are humans pretty similar (with some minor differences) but I think animals in general are remarkably similar. Carbohydrates, protein, fat are universal.

 

[Dave Clark]

We humans also have to deal with industrialization, chemicals, toxins, stress, etc. that animals for the most part aren't as exposed to in the wild. This factor, I believe, causes sensitivities, allergies, subclinical auto immune issues, etc., which may be part of why we respond differently to various foods etc. This is why a one size isn't fitting all in this modern world, maybe one time it did, but it is apparent that it isn't the case now, at least in my observation.

 

[TheBeard]

@schultz Good explanation with the geographical fact that we are spread out all around the world.

I wonder whether carbs are really universal?
Are there not some carnivores that have access to 0 carbs?

 

[ecstatichamster]

Healthy long lived people eat a limited diet. There seems to be great value in habitually eating the same things. Assuming they are good for us.

 

[thomas00]

Where are there are differences between us it's usually for terrible reasons- sensitivities we've developed from injury etc

Peat has said some people's organs are larger or longer than the same organs in somebody else's body and can account for difference.

There is absolutely no rationale for these 'eating for your type' fad diets.

 

[RealNeat]

It's interesting that we are all the same (pretty much) but the approach to regain that "sameness" can be a tricky road. Physiologically speaking.

that "sameness" seems to be the blueprint for proper functioning of the organism. Animals don't deviate much from that template which includes their mental state.

but the mental state seems to be connected to the environment.

humans are self injurious because of the modification of their environment.

animals can't modify their environment to the same degree we can, which spares them major chronic stressors.

 

[PleaseDoo21]

humans are too intelligent for their own good.
we'll never truly know what to eat, we're the only species that doesn't follow a single diet.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Some things that come to mind are that we are omnivores, and not herbivores or carnivores

True. We have adaptations for both meat and plants (fruits) consumption. Unfortunately, we are faulty in this respect. Because we don't have complete adaptations to meat eating, and neither to plant eating. Also, we don't have ideal adaptations to meat and plants combined.
So the vegans are wrong. The carnivores are wrong too. The omnivores, well, they are wrong too.

 

[revenant]

I'm also annoyed by this rationale, it's a silly cop-out.

But if I had to argue in favor of it, maybe I'd claim that our microbiomes are so different that we handle different foods differently. Someone might do well on potatoes while someone else wouldn't. That of course raises the question whether some microbiomes are better, and whether we should strive towards the better ones through dietary choices.

The geography argument is also pretty good. AFAIK there's some evidence that Italians tolerate wheat much better than Scandinavian people, because they've been exposed to it for thousands of years.

 

[thomas00]

I've read of people who don't handle wheat well but have eaten it on holidays in Italy and been OK.

 

[Mark2020]

I have asked myself this same question many times. I believe in Bruce Lipton's theory, in his Biology of Belief book, that we will be healthy on any diet we 100% believe is healthy. I have seen people live healthfully into their 80's, 90's and 100's, eating "HORRENDOUS" diets. I put horrendous in quotes, because they're horrendous based on science, but are they really so horrendous?

I have seen some remarkable research in regards to how strong our belief plays in the role of our health and wellness. I know a guy, he's about 70 now.... eats pancakes, sausage, bacon and eggs, drinks 3-6 beers a day, pastrami sandwiches, etc. Eats whatever the hell he wants. He's overweight. Yet, runs 5-10 miles a day, and does a few ultramarathons a year. He believes that running makes him healthy and bulletproof, and that's exactly what's shown up in his life. He has boundless kid-like energy at that age, because his belief is that he's in amazing health. He's even said to me, "Brother, you're too crazy with your diet! Live a little! Grease is good for you!" :)

 

[schultz]

@schultz Good explanation with the geographical fact that we are spread out all around the world.

I wonder whether carbs are really universal?
Are there not some carnivores that have access to 0 carbs?

I meant in the sense that creatures can convert things in the body and all that stuff, and even in a broader sense like how there are amino acids on asteroids and stuff. These things are basic materials throughout the universe. But I think there are probably animals that don't consume carbohydrates. Carrion eat flesh that has been dead for a few days so they wouldn't get glycogen from their food. I'm not sure if they eat anything else though. I'm sure there are other animals (like ocean bottom feeders). Glycogen depletes quickly though, so it's not a major source of carbohydrates even for carnivores that immediately eat their pray. But I think carnivores depend on gluconeogenesis to a large degree.

I'm also annoyed by this rationale, it's a silly cop-out.

But if I had to argue in favor of it, maybe I'd claim that our microbiomes are so different that we handle different foods differently. Someone might do well on potatoes while someone else wouldn't. That of course raises the question whether some microbiomes are better, and whether we should strive towards the better ones through dietary choices.

The geography argument is also pretty good. AFAIK there's some evidence that Italians tolerate wheat much better than Scandinavian people, because they've been exposed to it for thousands of years.

I do think it is a cop-out the way people use it. I think they say it to feel better about eating what they want to eat for the most part. That's just my opinion though.

The microbiome point is a good one though. I didn't think of that.

 

[thomas00]

I have asked myself this same question many times. I believe in Bruce Lipton's theory, in his Biology of Belief book, that we will be healthy on any diet we 100% believe is healthy. I have seen people live healthfully into their 80's, 90's and 100's, eating "HORRENDOUS" diets. I put horrendous in quotes, because they're horrendous based on science, but are they really so horrendous?

I have seen some remarkable research in regards to how strong our belief plays in the role of our health and wellness. I know a guy, he's about 70 now.... eats pancakes, sausage, bacon and eggs, drinks 3-6 beers a day, pastrami sandwiches, etc. Eats whatever the hell he wants. He's overweight. Yet, runs 5-10 miles a day, and does a few ultramarathons a year. He believes that running makes him healthy and bulletproof, and that's exactly what's shown up in his life. He has boundless kid-like energy at that age, because his belief is that he's in amazing health. He's even said to me, "Brother, you're too crazy with your diet! Live a little! Grease is good for you!" :)

Nobody will be able to live to 80 eating metabolic poisons anymore.

Earlier generations could do it because many got off to a good start which gave them robust health that afforded them the ability to tolerate junk food better than their modern counterparts can. Relatively good health means they didn't have food cravings to deal with, so they probably didn't eat as much of the junk as the last few generations have. A lot of old people stuck with the traditional foods and were wise enough not to fall for the modern concoctions they were being sold as healthy alternatives.

Now nobody is getting off to a good start in life. Their parents didn't either.

You could still eat starches, even bread and live a long time. There was an old guy on a video about old people I was watching recently. In good health, nearing his 90's, a war veteran, only ate his own homemade bread-with butter though!

 

[Mark2020]

Nobody will be able to live to 80 eating metabolic poisons anymore.

Earlier generations could do it because many got off to a good start which gave them robust health that afforded them the ability to tolerate junk food better than their modern counterparts can. Relatively good health means they didn't have food cravings to deal with, so they probably didn't eat as much of the junk as the last few generations have. A lot of old people stuck with the traditional foods and were wise enough not to fall for the modern concoctions they were being sold as healthy alternatives.

Now nobody is getting off to a good start in life. Their parents didn't either.

You could still eat starches, even bread and live a long time. There was an old guy on a video about old people I was watching recently. In good health, nearing his 90's, a war veteran, only ate his own homemade bread-with butter though!

Precisely what I was talking about, my friend. You’re brainwashed to believe what you believe. It’s not the truth. But you believe it to be. So it’s your truth. It’ll be what continues to manifest in your life.

 

[thomas00]

These old people who lived a long time supposedly eating junk, came from a different era. This is not a matter of belief. They weren't exposed to the same food contaminants, drugs, vitamin D deficiencies, vaccinations.

They were born into a completely different environment. If you think none of that matters and PUFAs carcinogenicity is determined by positive thinking then I scratch my head as to why you would be here.

 

[LUH 3417]

I think it comes down to the formative years not being stressful and as poisonous. I think also growing up in a world with a lot more personal freedom. My dad never went to high school and started selling sand as a teenager, traveled the world on a cargo ship, came to the US and did everything on his own terms. He is the least helpless person I’ve ever met, with very few health problems and a very strong resilience and sense of being able to make it in the world. He eats what he thinks is healthy and has just started going grey at 65. He’s pretty physically fit and has no health issues besides high cholesterol, which according the RP is protective in old age. I don’t have one memory of him ever being sick or taking off of work or complaining about his health.

 

[Ableton]

These old people who lived a long time supposedly eating junk, came from a different era. This is not a matter of belief. They weren't exposed to the same food contaminants, drugs, vitamin D deficiencies, vaccinations.

They were born into a completely different environment. If you think none of that matters and PUFAs carcinogenicity is determined by positive thinking then I scratch my head as to why you would be here.

We will live longer, because people not dying is the currency of the medical industrial complex. The whole apparatus is atomist thinking and safety first. You survive strokes, live with cancer for a decade as a result. But you do not get better.
We will have worse and worse quality of life, low bodytemperatures and thyroid. And ppl just laying around all day are catered to by media etc. Most people are damaged goods by the time they are 30 now, then jump on supposedly healthy diets and overdo fitness and so on.
Capitalism makes ppl sick, capitalism keeps them sick, capitalism keeps the sick „alive“

i think many of us here are united by acknowledging some kind of matrix that we want to break out of and get our agency back, and our approach is foremost physiological

 

[TheBeard]

I'm also annoyed by this rationale, it's a silly cop-out.

But if I had to argue in favor of it, maybe I'd claim that our microbiomes are so different that we handle different foods differently. Someone might do well on potatoes while someone else wouldn't. That of course raises the question whether some microbiomes are better, and whether we should strive towards the better ones through dietary choices.

The geography argument is also pretty good. AFAIK there's some evidence that Italians tolerate wheat much better than Scandinavian people, because they've been exposed to it for thousands of years.

Yes, the microbiome part of it has to be huge!
It's only recently that everyone has been moving around the globe and tasting different types of foods.
But all out ancestors have been living in the same region within a 500km radius tops, eating the same foods, eating the same dirt from the forests nearby that comes with unwashed foods, and their microbiome has been pretty stable.

We are exposing our guts to bacteria strains they have never seen in a million years.

 

[TheBeard]

I have asked myself this same question many times. I believe in Bruce Lipton's theory, in his Biology of Belief book, that we will be healthy on any diet we 100% believe is healthy. I have seen people live healthfully into their 80's, 90's and 100's, eating "HORRENDOUS" diets. I put horrendous in quotes, because they're horrendous based on science, but are they really so horrendous?

I have seen some remarkable research in regards to how strong our belief plays in the role of our health and wellness. I know a guy, he's about 70 now.... eats pancakes, sausage, bacon and eggs, drinks 3-6 beers a day, pastrami sandwiches, etc. Eats whatever the hell he wants. He's overweight. Yet, runs 5-10 miles a day, and does a few ultramarathons a year. He believes that running makes him healthy and bulletproof, and that's exactly what's shown up in his life. He has boundless kid-like energy at that age, because his belief is that he's in amazing health. He's even said to me, "Brother, you're too crazy with your diet! Live a little! Grease is good for you!" :)

I like the belief theory.

When I was a teen and went to the US for the summer, I was over eating, and was eating a "garbage" diet as per doctor's standards: fast foods twice a day, immense amount of carbs, sodas, ice cream.
And I was loving it because to me, it sounded like the recipe to grow big and strong.
I was looking at Americans around me, and I kept telling to myself, that's their secret.
My mind at the time wasn't engrained with nutritional principles, and I had zero knowledge about anything.

All I can remember is after every meal, I felt an immense satisfaction and relaxation, I was happy to have contributed to my growth.

After that summer, when I came back to school, people didn't recognize me: my shoulder width had almost doubled, I had grown 5cm up, and was almost up by 8kg, while looking athletic.

So maybe it was the hormones in the food, maybe it was my mind and the belief