Ways to lower Ammonia

[Andy316]

Has anyone successfully reduced their ammonia levels? If so, what approach did you use. So far navigating the forum I have seen the following ideas but wanted to confirm if someone has actually seen success with any of them. Thanks

1) Lower Protein Intake
2) Take Ceylon Cinnamon/Sodium Benzoate
3) Take Arginine, Ornithine, Citrulline to increase Nitric Oxide
3) Lactulose

 

[johnsmith]

I need to take an afternoon nap to refresh myself every single day, which I suspect is a symptom of something that isn't good. I tried what haidut said in this post a few days ago and the following day, I didn't need to take a nap, probably because I had high ammonia levels and Ceylon Cinnamon lowered it.

Afternoon Exhaustion

One possible reason is that allithiamine is fat soluble and crosses the blood brain barrier much more easily AND also accumulates in tissues including the brain. I am not sure to what degree regular thiamine Hcl accumulates in tissues. So, in theory even if you stop taking it you should be able...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Andy316]

@johnsmith thanks. Do you take it only at night before sleeping or after protein rich meal?

 

[Peatness]

Zinc
Thiamine
Biotin
Salt
Potatoe juice protein

 

[johnsmith]

@johnsmith thanks. Do you take it only at night before sleeping or after protein rich meal?

I plan to only take it every so often. Haidut goes into this issue a couple posts down in that link.

 

[Andy316]

Zinc
Thiamine
Biotin
Salt
Potatoe juice protein

@Pina Thanks. Did you take all and saw effect or would you say anything particular in there helped you the most?

 

[Peatness]

@Pina Thanks. Did you take all and saw effect or would you say anything particular in there helped you the most?

I've used them at different times. I no longer do the potatoes juice protein because it's far too tedious. Zinc and thiamine are probably the most helpful.

 

[miquelangeles]

My cat is 15 years old and 4 years ago he was given 6 months to live due to advanced chronic kidney disease.
I started giving him Azodyl, the 3 strain probiotic selected for their ability to metabolize ammonia and urea within the GI tract. This basically takes the burden off the liver and kidneys. Within 2 weeks he recovered miraculously. Despite being very picky with food and losing some teeth because of old age, he is now as youthful and energetic as a young kitten. And it's been 4 years.
I was intrigued by this and wanted to try the probiotic myself because I've long suspected that some of my brain fog symptoms were due to hyperammonemia. They would accentuate when eating higher protein and having slow transit.
The manufacturer recently released a human version of the probiotic called Renadyl, but it was not available in Europe so I ended up taking the veterinary version since they are basically the same strains. The adjusted human dose is 3 cat capsules daily.
The effects become noticeable within a couple days, feels like a decrease of general inflammation, body feels more relaxed, chest tightness decreases and becomes easier to breathe. I've taken it about 4 times so far, for two weeks at a time. The side effects that I got 3 out of 4 times were foul smelling gas and lighter colored stools. One time I didn't get these side effects, so it probably depends on the existing ecology and how it interacts with it.

 

[Ben.]

Has anyone successfully reduced their ammonia levels? If so, what approach did you use. So far navigating the forum I have seen the following ideas but wanted to confirm if someone has actually seen success with any of them. Thanks

1) Lower Protein Intake
2) Take Ceylon Cinnamon/Sodium Benzoate
3) Take Arginine, Ornithine, Citrulline to increase Nitric Oxide
3) Lactulose

I havent measured ammonia levels but i have taken ornithine and most of the time sleep is just so much better. Deeper sleep and dreams are more intense in that i am more "present". Had a couple friends report something similar. I have to note that these friends and i have or atleast used to be high on protein due to working out alot.


I am not saying you should use or take it, someof the options you listed might be better/safer. If however you do try ornithine, consider this :

Hello, the neurobiological impacts of hyperammonemia (elevated ammonia levels) are one of my main areas of research. Ammonia is the most potent neurotoxin naturally existent in the human body. Even slight elevations, over time, may lead to neurodegenerative disease including Alzheimers Disease. (Ali, 2020). If you are having brain fog and other problems relieved by Ornithine, it could be indicative of a high serum ammonia level and you should discuss this with your physician. The main condition which causes hyperammonemia is liver cirrhosis, but there are numerous other conditions which can be causative, and can result in cognitive impairments including encephalopathy)(Kalra, 2020--See Table #1).

Ornithine triggers the Urea Cycle and is an adjunctive treatment for patients with Urea Cycle Disorders; a rare inborn error of metabolism. I will also caution you that Ornithine can deplete Arginine over time, which can also cause ammonia elevations. I will attach two (2) of my favorite (generalized) Pubmed articles about non-cirrhotic hyperammonemia as well as the mechanism of action for how ammonia causes neurotoxicity.

Ali R, Nagalli S. Hyperammonemia. [Updated 2020 Aug 10]. In: StatPearls [Internet]. Treasure Island (FL): StatPearls Publishing; 2021 Jan-. Available from: Hyperammonemia - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

Kalra, A., & Norvell, J. P. (2020). Cause for Confusion: Noncirrhotic Hyperammonemic Encephalopathy. Clinical liver disease, 15(6), 223–227. Error - Cookies Turned Off

Although I am not willing to make a recommendation to treat a potential disease, you might also look into L-Ornithine L-Aspartate (LOLA) in your research endeavors. See Butterworth, R. F., & McPhail, M. (2019). L-Ornithine L-Aspartate (LOLA) for Hepatic Encephalopathy in Cirrhosis: Results of Randomized Controlled Trials and Meta-Analyses. Drugs, 79(Suppl 1), 31–37. https://doi.org/10.1007/s40265-018-1024-1

Good luck,
Brooks

 

[Peatness]

Useful blog on ammonia

AMMONIA TOXICITY: Part 1 - NutriStart

AMMONIA: A NEW TOXIN TO WORRY ABOUT In the last blog I discussed how some cities treat their water with a mixture of chlorine and ammonia, known as Chloramine. It was revealed that it is very difficult to remove the ammonia from water treated this way, with current carbon filter technology...

nutristart.com

 

[Andy316]

Thanks everyone really helpful. I tried ceylon cinnamon tea yesterday night and had bad insomnia, I definitely felt less brain fogged so its doing something good. Ill reduce the cinnamon dosage and take it in the morning.

@Ben Ornithine definitely seems something I want to try. Apart from good sleep did you see any other benefits? I'm in the same had a bodybuilding, excess protein intake history. Maybe the excess protein has worsened my liver or kidney function.

 

[Ben.]

To be honest i haven't used it as regulary as i'd wanted to so i can't report effects other than good sleep. I actually thought of splitting/using it troughout the day to see if that could or would make sense or provide a better reaction. Studies with l-ornithine and l-aspartate often times used 3 dosages troughout the day and reported lower cortisol levels for example.

I personally only used like 1-2 grams before going to bed thus far. It also does not "work" or help the sleep everytime, perhaps like 7 or 8 times out of 10, atleast for me. The reason i mentioned high protein is due ammonia being a natural byproduct from protein digestion. The issue ofcourse comes from when we can't deal with ammonia sufficiently anymore.

Pinas link is a very good read, theres stuff in there i did and didnt know:

"Commonly suggested is 500mg of L-Ornithine in the evening and 500mg of L-Arginine in the morning to aid in neutralizing ammonia in the liver, the body and in urine. A larger quantity of these 2 amino acids may be taken, but remember to take them on an empty stomach."

---

"Another beneficial supplement to fight ammonia excess is bentonite clay, which absorbs toxins out of the intestinal tract. This clay is commonly used in programs designed to fight candida yeast overgrowth, but as well it shows an affinity for ammonia ions. Bentonite comes premixed in liquid or can be purchased as a powder. It is considered to be most effective when taken mixed into liquid, as opposed to ingesting it in capsule form.
A serving of bentonite is one teaspoon of clay powder mixed into 2 oz of water (juice may be used if the water mixture is unpalatable to you) and shaken well. Use purified water but not distilled. This amount can be taken once or twice daily (morning and/or night) on an empty stomach for 2 to 4 weeks. Then take a break, and use occasionally, or every few months as part of a detox protocol."

---

"Chlorophyll, the green pigment of plants, is a good blood cleanser, neutralizing toxins such as ammonia and carbon monoxide. Chlorophyll can be purchased as a liquid supplement, or is found in super foods, such as wheatgrass, barley grass and chlorella, which are more rich in nutrients than is chlorophyll alone."

---

"As mentioned above, small amounts of ammonia are produced as a byproduct of the normal digestion of proteins, and the body is prepared to handle this quantity. However, parasites, bad bacteria, and candida yeast overgrowth in the intestinal tract, can produce more ammonia than the body is equipped to deal with, leading to a compromised immune system."

---

Using these "supplements" can be very helpfull therapies for the condition, but to fix it we might need to go a little further and beyond (if its bacteria/parasites we need to take care of thoose, if its a damaged liver we need to fix that etc. etc.)

I also wonder if excessive craving for proteins can or is a sign for a faulty microbiome.

 

[Mauritio]

Just took my first ornithine capsule 30 minutes ago. It makes me pretty drowsy and relaxed . Also seems to cause the infamous scalp itch ,maybe it does increase NO ?!

 

[Mauritio]

My cat is 15 years old and 4 years ago he was given 6 months to live due to advanced chronic kidney disease.
I started giving him Azodyl, the 3 strain probiotic selected for their ability to metabolize ammonia and urea within the GI tract. This basically takes the burden off the liver and kidneys. Within 2 weeks he recovered miraculously. Despite being very picky with food and losing some teeth because of old age, he is now as youthful and energetic as a young kitten. And it's been 4 years.
I was intrigued by this and wanted to try the probiotic myself because I've long suspected that some of my brain fog symptoms were due to hyperammonemia. They would accentuate when eating higher protein and having slow transit.
The manufacturer recently released a human version of the probiotic called Renadyl, but it was not available in Europe so I ended up taking the veterinary version since they are basically the same strains. The adjusted human dose is 3 cat capsules daily.
The effects become noticeable within a couple days, feels like a decrease of general inflammation, body feels more relaxed, chest tightness decreases and becomes easier to breathe. I've taken it about 4 times so far, for two weeks at a time. The side effects that I got 3 out of 4 times were foul smelling gas and lighter colored stools. One time I didn't get these side effects, so it probably depends on the existing ecology and how it interacts with it.

Sounds interesting.
Where did you buy yours ?

 

[Peatness]

Just took my first ornithine capsule 30 minutes ago. It makes me pretty drowsy and relaxed . Also seems to cause the infamous scalp itch ,maybe it does increase NO ?!

It drops blood sugar and I think it does raise NO

 

[miquelangeles]

Sounds interesting.
Where did you buy yours ?

In person from veterinary pharmacies but there are online shops too. They say it has to be shipped on ice packs though.

 

[Mauritio]

In person from veterinary pharmacies but there are online shops too. They say it has to be shipped on ice packs though.

Ok thx i might check it out .


Anybody ever tried ceylon cinnamon for ammonia reduction?

And how much salt is needed for ammonia reduction, can't find any data on it ...

 

[miquelangeles]

In addition to the cat pills, this was my experience:

- vegetarian diet for 1-2 weeks works, not sustainable though
- tibetan pink clay and antibacterial blue clay worked well, although most clays will have similar effects, same as activated charcoal; some studies show that chronic consumption of clay does not create micronutrient deficiencies, unlike activated charcoal; that doesn't mean clay is free of risks, Ray has mentioned that it can react with the stomach acid and create toxic compounds
- inulin and lactulose; inulin also produced muscle relaxation and increased my breathing capacity significantly, but I only used it for a short time because of its cancer promoting effects; I think it is being investigated for asthma and some of its effects might be independent from the microbiome modulation;
- arginine and citrulline - no noticeable benefits
- medicinal mushrooms, especially Coriolus versicolor worked pretty well; but many of the medicinal mushrooms are anti-androgenic
- eliminating constipation and having two bowel movements per day ideally, is most important

 

[Elize]

Cinnamon is a problem for me with histamine reactions

 

[Mauritio]

Cinnamon is a problem for me with histamine reactions

Really, I'm usually really sensitive to histamine .
But I took 500mg around an hour ago and noticed only benefits .
What symptoms do you get from cinnamon?