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Luann

Luann

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:+1 and a little colloidal silver and/or sage or thyme or oregaano oil too.


upload_2017-5-16_14-50-42.jpeg



jk, that was his own fault.
 
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Luann

Luann

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Not to make fun because its actually touching that a number of you have expresed advice and concern over my tooth situation. So much love on one little forum!!
 

Travis

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You cannot remove fluoride completely by distillation, it forms an azeotrope.

Like alcohol in water, serial distillation only leads to a constant percentage that does not change upon subsequent distillation (azeotrope).

This azeotropic mixture, which is a maximum-boiling solution, contains approximately 35 to 37 weight per cent of hydrogen fluoride.
Method of recovering hydrogen fluoride from an azeotropic mixture by crystallization

Fluoride and HF are polar, electronegative species with a boiling point of 67.1°F. It's so polar though that it attracts to the water molecules and follows them everywhere they go.

The filters work, but they become saturated with time. Triisopropylsilyl hydroxycoumarin is a very sensitive indicator to visualize the presence of fluoride ions in water:

A simple, convenient, and inexpensive method has been developed to quantitatively determine fluoride anion concentration in acetonitrile as well as in water. The method exhibited a high selectivity and a great sensitivity toward fluoride anions through “turn-on” chromogenic and fluorogenic dual modes. The fluoride driven silyl deprotection and the subsequent spectral changes of hydroxyl coumarin were the operating foundations for the observed selectivity and sensitivity. 1H NMR spectral titration with F– revealed that complete deprotection of a triisopropylsilyl (TIPS) group needed exactly 1 equiv of TBAF. UV–vis and fluorescence titration studies exhibited the appearance of a new intense absorption band centered at 434 nm and green emission peak at 500 nm, accompanied by bright yellow color development to the naked eye. An easy-to-prepare test paper, obtained by dipping the paper into the solution of TIPS-protected coumarin derivative, was able to detect F– in aqueous media. The method has also shown highly promising results in detecting all kinds of fluoride salts, regardless of being organic or inorganic, and thus could be potentially useful in real applications.

Highly Sensitive Fluorescence “Turn-On” Indicator for Fluoride Anion with Remarkable Selectivity in Organic and Aqueous Media


This could be a good indicator to use to detect when the filters become saturated.
 

HLP

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This spring water is very clear and sparkling cold as opposed to our well water that comes out of our taps that stinks and is cloudy. I have a meter to test various properties such as PPM, sodium and pH. Our well was damaged by an oil company fracking close by several years ago that caused our water to ignite. I guess I could collect it and have it tested if I wanted to spend some money. Usually boil it but have never got sick from drinking it right at the source on a hot day. I actually wash my hair in it occasionally too. Quite refreshing.
 

Queequeg

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You cannot remove fluoride completely by distillation, it forms an azeotrope.

Like alcohol in water, serial distillation only leads to a constant percentage that does not change upon subsequent distillation (azeotrope).
Method of recovering hydrogen fluoride from an azeotropic mixture by crystallization
Fluoride and HF are polar, electronegative species with a boiling point of 67.1°F. It's so polar though that it attracts to the water molecules and follows them everywhere they go.
The filters work, but they become saturated with time. Triisopropylsilyl hydroxycoumarin is a very sensitive indicator to visualize the presence of fluoride ions in water:
Highly Sensitive Fluorescence “Turn-On” Indicator for Fluoride Anion with Remarkable Selectivity in Organic and Aqueous Media
This could be a good indicator to use to detect when the filters become saturated.
I think it’s a tradeoff as none of the water purification methods work 100%. A single stage distillation procedure actually removes about 50- 60% of the fluoride. A distillation column i.e. multistage distillation would be required to remove 100%.

The fluoride-water azeotrope you mention is only relevant in the production of anhydrous or super concentrated fluoride as the azeotrope only occurs when the Fluoride concentration reaches about 35% by wt. We are talking about the removal of less than 1 ppm fluoride so there is no azeotrope.

Here is a study I found comparing different alternative for fluoride reduction. The effect of water purification systems on fluoride content of drinking water Prabhakar A R, Raju O S, Kurthukoti A J, Vishwas T D - J Indian Soc Pedod Prev Dent

Observations Unprocessed borewell and tap water samples showed mean fluoride values of 3.51 ± 0.02 and 0.26 ± 0.02, respectively [Table - 1]. In the borewell group, processed water samples showed a reduction of about 72.2% in the fluoride content by reverse osmosis system, 55.6% by distillation, 28.9% by activated carbon, 63.9% by Reviva® , and only 2.4% by candle filter; these differences were statistically highly significant ( P < 0.001). Processed tap water samples showed a reduction in the fluoride content of about 37.9% by reverse osmosis system, 17.5% by distillation, 14.6% by activated carbon, and 21.4% by Reviva® , which was statistically highly significant ( P < 0.001); by candle filter the reduction was only 1.5%, which was statistically significant ( P < 0.05).

The study is a little tough to use for the US since the water tested has such a different level of fluoride than in the US. Borewell water was 3.51 ppm and tap water was 0.26 ppm. The target fluoridation level where I live is 0.7 ppm. But basically the best system is RO or Riva multistage filtration, followed by distillation, then activated carbon, and then candle filters.

All countertop distillers have an activated carbon filter so you are actually getting a two step system. I should also mentioned that I typically add a ¼ teaspoon of pharmaceutical borax to each batch of distilled water to get the rest of the fluoride out and provide some detox for my body.
 
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Travis

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A single stage distillation procedure actually removes about 50- 60% of the fluoride.

It depends on the initial concentration.

If 17.5% was removed with an initial concentration of .26ppm
And 55.6% was removed with an initial concentration of 3.5ppm

You might expect a once-over distillation to remove about 25% from your average fluoridated tap water.

This probably could be increased by adding a little Ca(OH)₂ to the water.
 

Queequeg

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It depends on the initial concentration.

If 17.5% was removed with an initial concentration of .26ppm
And 55.6% was removed with an initial concentration of 3.5ppm

You might expect a once-over distillation to remove about 25% from your average fluoridated tap water.

This probably could be increased by adding a little Ca(OH)₂ to the water.
Yeah none of them are that great that's why I throw in the borax. The Calcium hydroxide is another good idea. I bet powdered eggshell would work as an adsorbant.
 

Travis

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About a year ago I looked to see if borax was really an antidote to fluoride, it is. I found this journal called simply Fluoride. You can find animal experiments with both fluoride and boron in this journal. It's a good place to hear about the horrors of fluoride from level-headed, middle-aged scientists.

Chinese fluoride chemist says this in Vol 27, № 3, 125-128, 1994
Among over 10 recently developed medicaments for treating fluorosis, the one containing boron has the best understood mechanism for countering the action of fluoride. That is, boron integrates itself with fluoride in the body to form a tetrafluoroborate which can be excreted in the urine, and reduces the permeability of fluoride through cellular membranes.
boron.png

He goes onto to say that it interferes with the production of thyroid hormone:
Fluoride conjugates the phenolic hydroxyl of tyrosine by hydrogen bonding, interfering with the biological anabolism of thyrotropic hormone.

He goes on the say that it inhibits glutathione peroxidase, and increases free radicals in the process. He says that it hydrogen bonds to all tyrosines in addition to it's well-known toxic effects on bone.
tyrosine.png
 
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Waynish

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I meant to call into KMUD and ask Dr Peat about this last week but I ended up being occupied during the call time.

I am curious if fluoride is able to cross our skin during bathing and whether the temperature of the water (warmth opening pores) would be relevant.

This also led me to realize how much fluoride I was drinking. Anytime you order something from a restaurant like a soup, coffee, or even ice the water is likely from the tap.

This is not as much of an issue because you can put a bit of ascorbic acid in your baths before bathing, but you don't want to drink ascorbic acid with every glass of water / every time you want to drink water. I guess for showing you'll still get some - so the only real solution is a reverse osmosis system for your house - or move to a country that doesn't add it. A few of those countries even keep chlorine/chloramines out of their water - nice of them :)
 

Queequeg

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About a year ago I looked to see if borax was really an antidote to fluoride, it is. I found this journal called simply Fluoride. You can find animal experiments with both fluoride and boron in this journal. It's a good place to hear about the horrors of fluoride from level-headed, middle-aged scientists.

Chinese fluoride chemist says this in Vol 27, № 3, 125-128, 1994

View attachment 5401
He goes onto to say that it interferes with the production of thyroid hormone:


He goes on the say that it inhibits glutathione peroxidase, and increases free radicals in the process. He says that it hydrogen bonds to all tyrosines in addition to it's well-known toxic effects on bone.
View attachment 5402
Good stuff. thanks
 

Queequeg

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This is not as much of an issue because you can put a bit of ascorbic acid in your baths before bathing, but you don't want to drink ascorbic acid with every glass of water / every time you want to drink water. I guess for showing you'll still get some - so the only real solution is a reverse osmosis system for your house - or move to a country that doesn't add it. A few of those countries even keep chlorine/chloramines out of their water - nice of them :)
I have a Vitamin C shower filter which works great. The only problem is that vit c doesn't affect fluoride, only chlorides.
 

Elysium

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Being able to chill and take things easy is one of the main conditions of living a long and healthy life. Obsessing and stressing about fluoride in your shower water does more harm than the fluoride itself.

So just chill. There are far more harmful chemicals that you are exposed to every day and you have no choice but to accept it as a part of life, because there is no escaping them. From your clothes fabric, detergents you wash it with, food packaging, formaldehyde fumes from your flooring, carpets and furniture, diesel fumes, general air pollution and on and on. The soap you use - even the natural lye+oils one - is far worse than the fluoride water you rinse it with. So sorry to say that but fluoride filter in the show is just anal.

As far as ingesting water - if you eat Peat, there's not much need for drinking water. OJ, milk and fruit will provide all the hydration one needs. Not that fluoride would be that harmful anyway. There's no science to support that. And at the end of the day, I'd take fluoride drinking water over a British smile any day.
 
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Milena

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[QUOTE="Elysium, post: 235038, member: 5908" And at the end of the day, I'd take fluoride drinking water over a British smile any day.[/QUOTE]

Actually, we have fluoride in a lot of our water and it has put fluoride spots on many kids' teeth - permanently, including my niece.
We tend to have a lot less dental intervention - Tom Cruise's teeth are not his own, BTW.

Me. I'd prefer to have the teeth some of my African friends have.

Decay and replacement are lower in UK than US, nowadays. We just don't go for artificial white, here.
 

Queequeg

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Being able to chill and take things easy is one of the main conditions of living a long and healthy life. Obsessing and stressing about fluoride in your shower water does more harm than the fluoride itself.

So just chill. There are far more harmful chemicals that you are exposed to every day and you have no choice but to accept it as a part of life, because there is no escaping them. From your clothes fabric, detergents you wash it with, food packaging, formaldehyde fumes from your flooring, carpets and furniture, diesel fumes, general air pollution and on and on. The soap you use - even the natural lye+oils one - is far worse than the fluoride water you rinse it with. So sorry to say that but fluoride filter in the show is just anal.

As far as ingesting water - if you eat Peat, there's not much need for drinking water. OJ, milk and fruit will provide all the hydration one needs. Not that fluoride would be that harmful anyway. There's no science to support that. And at the end of the day, I'd take fluoride drinking water over a British smile any day.
People who eat GMO's, drink diet coke, and cook with corn oil say the same as well. I think you are exaggerating the stress levels caused by researching the dangers of fluoride and how to best deal with it. Once you find a solution you never think about it again. Yes there are a lot of environmental toxins you cant avoid but why not lower the load by dealing with the ones you can easily avoid. You may wish to brush up on the health hazards of fluoride. As an RPF member you should know that it is extremely anti-thyroid.
 
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Elysium

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It's practically inescapable, is all I'm saying.

And I also don't consider this to be a solution:

Cb3IW7GWwAA3r76.jpg
 

Queequeg

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It's practically inescapable, is all I'm saying.

And I also don't consider this to be a solution:

Cb3IW7GWwAA3r76.jpg
lol is that low flow shower? But getting back to your point, you don't have to escape it 100%. That is black and white thinking. You just have to do the best you can to lower your body's overall toxic burden. There are many easy solutions to removing fluoride and many other toxins from your drinking water. An under sink RO or multistage filter system would be very easy to have installed and you never have to worry about it again.
 

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