WARNING: CO2-related Death

[haidut]

Do you have a reference for that? In most contexts, even very high levels of CO2 up to 5% have been shown to protect animals and people from seizures.

5% CO₂ inhalation suppresses hyperventilation-induced absence seizures in children. - PubMed - NCBI
5% CO2 is a potent, fast acting inhalation anticonvulsant
Stopping Seizures With Carbon Dioxide

Yes, CO2 is usually protective against seizures but in some people it can induce violent panic attacks. Severe panic attacks can trigger seizures. In people with epilepsy it may also sometimes have paradoxical effects. This is similar to the gas nitrous oxide (not the same as NO) which is also usually calming and used for anesthesia. It can also trigger seizures in some people. Demi Moore is the most famous recent case who had seizure as a result of nitrous oxide. But she was abusing it and like I said before, if it is indeed CO2 that triggered a seizure the person is probably breathing a lot more than 5% and for very long time. In other words abusing it to the point of loss of consciousness and acidosis.
There cases are rare, and I am not saying this is what happened or the norm. Just trying to come up with an explanation that involves CO2. Chance are it was not CO2 that triggered it.
Abnormal ventilatory response to CO2 in epilepsy patients: a potential biomarker for seizure induced respiratory depression & modification by SSRI | Grants Awarded | Our Research | CURE Epilepsy

 

[Such_Saturation]

The one thing I'm missing from all these recent CO2 recommendations is: where the heck does someone get a ABG (arterial blood gas) test? Seems like something I can't get without going through a doctor/hospital.

Unless you rely on estimates they stick a needle in your artery user @tara has written about this I believe.

Do you have a reference for that? In most contexts, even very high levels of CO2 up to 5% have been shown to protect animals and people from seizures.

5% CO₂ inhalation suppresses hyperventilation-induced absence seizures in children. - PubMed - NCBI
5% CO2 is a potent, fast acting inhalation anticonvulsant
Stopping Seizures With Carbon Dioxide

You gotta quote gbold not haidut lol

 

[gbolduev]

Nice. The more Georgi( Haidut) hangs out amongst the sick patients and hospital data the more he understands that all people have different imbalances. Now agreement with Peat at 70%, in 1 -2 years it will be 30%. Since Peat covers only one imbalance. Maximum energy and maximum health is achieved when the PHs are balanced inside and outside of the cell. There is no good this or bad that. There is a balance.

And for some this balance can be achieved by going more alkaline and for others going more acidic. And it is not as easy as drinking alkaline or acidic water. It is all about fixing your imbalance or at least support that imbalances which forces your body to use the buffer to fight that PH imbalance

That is why for some people Calcium is not good, niacianimide not good, aspirin is death. CO2 is a disaster.

For some people who are in resp alkalosis CO2 is anti siezure since it will increase ionized calcium. In some people with Co2 retention problems, CO2 will cause seizures, and it will cause death since it will cause hypokalemia.

It is so so crazy to talk about CO2 good or bad for everyone. this is simple anesthesiology . I will never understand why people still discuss this stuff instead of just reading one anesthesiology book and be really clear how this all works.

 

[yerrag]

This is just like saying that you have to understand your context. When you understand your context, you can understand what imbalances you have. And then you can correct it, and achieve balance. I think there is no disagreement there.

I don't see how there would be a gradual diminishment of what Peat is saying though. What you have done is to make people ask more questions, and to look deeper. It's good to be challenged, and be forced to defend your position. Getting clarity out of it would be a good thing.

 

[gbolduev]

This is just like saying that you have to understand your context. When you understand your context, you can understand what imbalances you have. And then you can correct it, and achieve balance. I think there is no disagreement there.

I don't see how there would be a gradual diminishment of what Peat is saying though. What you have done is to make people ask more questions, and to look deeper. It's good to be challenged, and be forced to defend your position. Getting clarity out of it would be a good thing.

Peat does talk about context. But his articles are not about context really. And this forum is not really about context. Most people don't want the context here , they want to be guided by a simple straight forward system. Eat this eat that, do this do that. And it does not work, so folks are trying hormones. Now this where the dangerous part starts. Hormones are very dangerous. I had 3 people contact me from this forum who crashed on Dhea, which actually can cause dangerous hypokalemia. This is not a joke. Progesterone can cause zinc copper imbalance. DHT will cause manganese iron imbalance. Hormones are produced to regulate the body. And not to be taken. they could be used with contrarian endocrinology approach for very short time. To chelate certain mineral or retain the other. but they should never be used in a replacement approach IMHO

 

[yerrag]

Peat does talk about context. But his articles are not about context really. And this forum is not really about context. Most people don't want the context here , they want to be guided by a simple straight forward system. Eat this eat that, do this do that. And it does not work, so folks are trying hormones. Now this where the dangerous part starts. Hormones are very dangerous. I had 3 people contact me from this forum who crashed on Dhea, which actually can cause dangerous hypokalemia. This is not a joke. Progesterone can cause zinc copper imbalance. DHT will cause manganese iron imbalance. Hormones are produced to regulate the body. And not to be taken. they could be used with contrarian endocrinology approach for very short time. To chelate certain mineral or retain the other. but they should never be used in a replacement approach IMHO

I am in full agreement with you, and I think that respecting the power, put into good use as well as in abuse, of hormones is needed in this context. Used wrongly, such as "by a simple straightforward system," without the benefit of understanding and context, is going to create individual islands of crises. The removal of context in all these is a matter of poor implementation by impatient people, and not to be faulted on Ray Peat's ideas. He probably helped open a Pandora's box, but there is a need for truth as well. Without Ray Peat making the diligent research and sharing his research, the easier it is for the truth to remain buried and hidden. And the alternative is for the entire medical establishment to run rampant in putting people into a state of dependence on legalized drugs used wrongly by conventional doctors.

 

[gbolduev]

I am in full agreement with you, and I think that respecting the power, put into good use as well as in abuse, of hormones is needed in this context. Used wrongly, such as "by a simple straightforward system," without the benefit of understanding and context, is going to create individual islands of crises. The removal of context in all these is a matter of poor implementation by impatient people, and not to be faulted on Ray Peat's ideas. He probably helped open a Pandora's box, but there is a need for truth as well. Without Ray Peat making the diligent research and sharing his research, the easier it is for the truth to remain buried and hidden. And the alternative is for the entire medical establishment to run rampant in putting people into a state of dependence on legalized drugs used wrongly by conventional doctors.

You see the problem with Peat, Me, Haidut and other hundreds of people who are trying to help others or do some research is that this research unless very carefully given as a system to discover your imbalances, completely destroys people's already impaired ability to listen to themselves
This is what I am saying. Someone writes some diilgent research as you said online. and boom this creates more harm then good. You cant outline the rules or approaches for all people. People forgot how to listen to themselves. I think it is needed to steer them into the direction of actually listening to themselves and not reading the internet.

 

[Manwe]

Nice. The more Georgi( Haidut) hangs out amongst the sick patients and hospital data the more he understands that all people have different imbalances. Now agreement with Peat at 70%, in 1 -2 years it will be 30%. Since Peat covers only one imbalance. Maximum energy and maximum health is achieved when the PHs are balanced inside and outside of the cell. There is no good this or bad that. There is a balance.

And for some this balance can be achieved by going more alkaline and for others going more acidic. And it is not as easy as drinking alkaline or acidic water. It is all about fixing your imbalance or at least support that imbalances which forces your body to use the buffer to fight that PH imbalance

That is why for some people Calcium is not good, niacianimide not good, aspirin is death. CO2 is a disaster.

For some people who are in resp alkalosis CO2 is anti siezure since it will increase ionized calcium. In some people with Co2 retention problems, CO2 will cause seizures, and it will cause death since it will cause hypokalemia.

It is so so crazy to talk about CO2 good or bad for everyone. this is simple anesthesiology . I will never understand why people still discuss this stuff instead of just reading one anesthesiology book and be really clear how this all works.

False. Hyperventilation and low CO2 will cause hypokalemia. See this study from The journal of ANAESTHESIOLOGY

Singh PK; Maheshwari A; Jain P; Bise M; Gaur A; Tomar A; Jagannadhan A.
Department of Anaesthesiology, G B Pant Hospital, New Delhi
Serum potassium changes during controlled hyperventilation
Journal of Anaesthesiology Clinical Pharmacology. 1990 Jul; 6(3): 231-4

ABSTRACT: In a study conducted in forty adult patients, paCO2 was gradually lowered in stages by increasing minute ventilation and effects on serum K+ levels observed. Statistically significant fall (mean 0.49 mEq/L for every 10 mm Hg fall in PaCO2) was observed in serum K+ when paCO2 was reduced from 40 to 20 mmHg. The most rapid fall in K+ (0.51 mEq/L) occurred when paCO2 decreased from 38-20 mmHg. ECG changes included ST depression flattened T-wave and appearance of U-Wave (n-21) and bigeminy (n-1). The results obtained in the present study re-emphasize the fact that serum potassium concentration is directly proportional to arterial carbon dioxide tension, and that for every 10 mmHg decrease i paCO2 there is a concomitant, 0.49 mEq/L decrease in potassium. Therefore, sudden and significant levels of hypokalemia may occur during the course of a general anaesthetic. Since hypokalemia is known to be capable of producing serious cardiac arrhythmias, hyperventilation should be avoided particularly in patients who are on drugs which produce electrophysiologic change similar to those resulting from hypokalemia.

Serum potassium changes during controlled hyperventilation

 

[yerrag]

You see the problem with Peat, Me, Haidut and other hundreds of people who are trying to help others or do some research is that this research unless very carefully given as a system to discover your imbalances, completely destroys people's already impaired ability to listen to themselves
This is what I am saying. Someone writes some diilgent research as you said online. and boom this creates more harm then good. You cant outline the rules or approaches for all people. People forgot how to listen to themselves. I think it is needed to steer them into the direction of actually listening to themselves and not reading the internet.

So true. There really exists a void. There are too many doctors out there who aren't trained to heal, hampered by a lack of rigor in their training, and by the wrong approach of not understanding context. So people seek out alternative doctors, and the problem is that they're not getting predictable and consistent results with them. And they're expensive and to add insult to injury, not covered by insurance. Then when people (like me) see Peat's writings, we start entertaining the idea of healing themselves. Yet there is so much to cover, and too little time, that for everything to be understood, it would probably never happen. So we do the next best thing, which is to learn as we go along. It's all fine going this way when you start to apply what you learn using food. Food is very forgiving. It provides nutrients, but does so in a way that the body can take to it well.

But then sooner or later, we start dipping our toes into the forbidden fruit of pharma drugs and hormones. This is when a surgeon general's warning is needed: "Caution, expect to be disappointed with initial results. Perceive. Think. Act. Really! Proceed with maximum restraint. Walk. Don't Jump. If in doubt, stop." But no one's stopping us. So we dive in, seeing how many people have done so. Just like lemmings.

I'm just like that. I admit it. I'm just lucky I still have a decent amount of hair left on my scalp. Otherwise, there I go but for the grace of God!

 

[CLASH]

Hello Ray Peat forum,
I'd like to weigh in on the situation and perhaps provide some context to the situation.
In regards to Peat's work, as far as I understand he seems to recommend high oxidative metabolism via the oxidation of sugar to increase the production of CO2 by the cells. This makes perfect sense, at least to me. This increase of CO2 at the cellular level would increase something called the Bohr effect (if you guys already know what it is excuse me for the explanation). The Bohr effect, simply, is in high concentrations of CO2 the RBC's unload O2 and take up CO2 (because of the increased acidity from CO2 presence in the environment as carbonic acid when in combination with water, if I recall correctly). In low concentrations of CO2 the RBC's unload CO2 and take up O2 (this is due to the decreased acidity, due to decreased CO2 concentration in the environment leading to less carbonic acid). So what you see is that in areas of high sugar oxidation at the cellular environment (created by rapidly respiring cells utilizing glucose (glucose produces more CO2 than fat oxidation)) there is a high CO2 level. This high CO2 level leads to an unloading of O2 to continue cellular respiration in the combination of sugar. It also leads to a loading by the RBC'S of CO2. These, now CO2 loaded RBC's, are carried to the lungs where the concentration of O2 is higher than the concentration of CO2. This leads to CO2 being unloaded and O2 being loaded into the RBC due to the change in acidity of the environment. Thus, high cellular respiration, at the cellular producing increased levels of CO2 is a beneficial thing. It is essentially a feed forwards process that enhances itself as long as O2, Sugar, antioxidants and the necessary co-factors to the mitochondrial enzymes are present.

With this in mind, breathing CO2 may not be ideal depending on the individuals situation. By increasing the CO2 at the level of the lungs, based on the Bohr effect, less CO2 will be unloaded from the RBC's due to less concentration of O2 in the environment changing the pH and thus the gradient. It would make more sense to increase the CO2 at the cellular level by increasing sugar oxidation. Furthermore in regards to the lady with COPD, ativan should do nothing to help her panic attacks, its funny that the doctors decided to give this to her. Her panic attacks are akin to panicking when drowning. Due to the hyperinflation of her lungs and inability of her lungs to expire CO2, she has high concentrations of CO2 at the alveolar level leading to an upset in the gradient of the Bohr effect, so obviously CO2 isn't good here. But only at the level of her lungs because of the damage to the lungs. Interestingly enough COPD patients are put on high fat, high protein, low carb diets in the hospital to lower CO2 production (heres a +1 for Ray Peat in regards to sugar oxidation increasing CO2 production. They do these diets to decrease CO2 production at the cellular level so that less CO2 gets trapped at the lung (the lungs are unable to expire CO2 due to the fibrosis and damages tissue decreasing recoil/ compliance and trapping air).

In regards to hypercapnia from smoking or from COPD this is different than increasing CO2 from a metabolic standpoint. Hypercapnia from COPD or smoking is due to what I described above; essentially effecting the Bohr mechanism by increasing the CO2 at the level of the lungs and thus inhibiting CO2 unloading and O2 uptake. This is not ideal for CO2, as far as I understand CO2's main purpose is to increase oxygenation of the cells and tissues to provide a oxidizing agent (O2) to oxidize glucose (I'm pretty sure its oxidizing agent, I confuse myself sometimes haha). This should be increased by increasing metabolism at the cellular level, not by increasing CO2 at the lungs. The reason, Bipap and Cpap work is because they force O2 in the lungs and adjust the O2 concentration allowing the Bohr effect to work.

In regards to the kyphosis and programmers sitting, again the problem could be expiration of CO2 from the lungs due to lack of movement affecting the Bohr effect, not directly the high CO2 produced from metabolism.

Hypercapnia could increase cardiac output, through the activation of the nervous system as stated but in response to the body sensing high CO2 levels thus effecting the ability of the RBC's to perform the Bohr effect (O2 unloading at the cellular level). Interestingly enough the body uses CO2 concentration as an indicator for respiratory drive, as opposed to O2, at least from what I was taught in nursing school.

Also, in regards to the discussion on pH of the blood stream, I think the regulation is pretty straight forward. I have worked in ICU with some pretty sick patients and have taken their ABG's. The body has a very effective system of controlling blood gasses, I don't think it gets thrown off as easily is discussed here.

Basics:
HCO3: 22-28 (increased HCO3 increases the alkalinity- controlled by kidney)
PaCO2: 35-45 (increased HCO3 increases acidity- controlled by breathing)
pH: 7.35-7.45 (adjust with the concentrations of these compounds^)
PaO2: 80-100

In increased or decreased pH, breathing is controlled short term to adjust CO2 concentration and thus adjust acidity. In longer term bicarbonate is adjusted by the kidney. These systems work together to provide stabilization of the blood pH. The only time I've seen a massive shifts in these values was in sepsis and in COPD, even very sick patients and surgical patients values were within the normal range.

 

[Nokoni]

For a couple months I slept with a pillowcase over my head cinched at the neck with elastic. Then I experimented with a denser fabric pillowcase and woke up hypoxic. Scared me enough to drop the whole thing.

 

[gbolduev]

False. Hyperventilation and low CO2 will cause hypokalemia. See this study from The journal of ANAESTHESIOLOGY

Singh PK; Maheshwari A; Jain P; Bise M; Gaur A; Tomar A; Jagannadhan A.
Department of Anaesthesiology, G B Pant Hospital, New Delhi
Serum potassium changes during controlled hyperventilation
Journal of Anaesthesiology Clinical Pharmacology. 1990 Jul; 6(3): 231-4

ABSTRACT: In a study conducted in forty adult patients, paCO2 was gradually lowered in stages by increasing minute ventilation and effects on serum K+ levels observed. Statistically significant fall (mean 0.49 mEq/L for every 10 mm Hg fall in PaCO2) was observed in serum K+ when paCO2 was reduced from 40 to 20 mmHg. The most rapid fall in K+ (0.51 mEq/L) occurred when paCO2 decreased from 38-20 mmHg. ECG changes included ST depression flattened T-wave and appearance of U-Wave (n-21) and bigeminy (n-1). The results obtained in the present study re-emphasize the fact that serum potassium concentration is directly proportional to arterial carbon dioxide tension, and that for every 10 mmHg decrease i paCO2 there is a concomitant, 0.49 mEq/L decrease in potassium. Therefore, sudden and significant levels of hypokalemia may occur during the course of a general anaesthetic. Since hypokalemia is known to be capable of producing serious cardiac arrhythmias, hyperventilation should be avoided particularly in patients who are on drugs which produce electrophysiologic change similar to those resulting from hypokalemia.

Serum potassium changes during controlled hyperventilation

LOL. All I have to say. hyperventilation will cause potassium shift into the cell. And this will lower venous potassium levels. Some call this hypokalemia.It is not. that is why when people correct alkalosis in many cases too much potassium goes out of the cell and causes real problems. Long term acidosis actually causes hypokalemia. Real hypokalemia. like absolute lack of potassium= DEATH


Read more studies, buddy. LOL

 

[alywest]

High altitude used to make me really sick, like when I went to Denver. I was so sick I threw up all night and felt like I was being squeezed in a vice. It was awful and nothing could relieve it until I spent a while adjusting I guess. Some people just die if they go into too high altitudes too quickly, some girl just died recently while hiking in higher altitudes in Colorado I believe. She was young and seemed in great shape, but that killed her. Bag breathing occasionally throughout the day seems to be a safe way to increase CO2, I'm not sure why you'd need to ingest it in pure form. Also, eggshell calcium increases CO2, I think especially if you consume it with OJ or something else acidic. I'm assuming that low thyroid function is why CO2 is difficult for some people to assimilate. Perhaps @CLASH that is why some people can't tolerate high altitudes? In Hypothyroidism you produce less carbon dioxide which in turn means more serotonin and lactic acid is produced which in Peat world is not desirable. Thanks for helping me understand more fully how the CO2 system works in the cells as opposed to increasing it in the lungs. Is it possible that hypothyroid people could even have too low of concentration of CO2 in the lungs necessitating the use of bag breathing? It sounds like you can really focus on producing it in the cells through sodium bicarbonate or eggshell calcium (calcium carbonate)

 

[gbolduev]

Hello Ray Peat forum,
I'd like to weigh in on the situation and perhaps provide some context to the situation.
In regards to Peat's work, as far as I understand he seems to recommend high oxidative metabolism via the oxidation of sugar to increase the production of CO2 by the cells. This makes perfect sense, at least to me. This increase of CO2 at the cellular level would increase something called the Bohr effect (if you guys already know what it is excuse me for the explanation). The Bohr effect, simply, is in high concentrations of CO2 the RBC's unload O2 and take up CO2 (because of the increased acidity from CO2 presence in the environment as carbonic acid when in combination with water, if I recall correctly). In low concentrations of CO2 the RBC's unload CO2 and take up O2 (this is due to the decreased acidity, due to decreased CO2 concentration in the environment leading to less carbonic acid). So what you see is that in areas of high sugar oxidation at the cellular environment (created by rapidly respiring cells utilizing glucose (glucose produces more CO2 than fat oxidation)) there is a high CO2 level. This high CO2 level leads to an unloading of O2 to continue cellular respiration in the combination of sugar. It also leads to a loading by the RBC'S of CO2. These, now CO2 loaded RBC's, are carried to the lungs where the concentration of O2 is higher than the concentration of CO2. This leads to CO2 being unloaded and O2 being loaded into the RBC due to the change in acidity of the environment. Thus, high cellular respiration, at the cellular producing increased levels of CO2 is a beneficial thing. It is essentially a feed forwards process that enhances itself as long as O2, Sugar, antioxidants and the necessary co-factors to the mitochondrial enzymes are present.

With this in mind, breathing CO2 may not be ideal depending on the individuals situation. By increasing the CO2 at the level of the lungs, based on the Bohr effect, less CO2 will be unloaded from the RBC's due to less concentration of O2 in the environment changing the pH and thus the gradient. It would make more sense to increase the CO2 at the cellular level by increasing sugar oxidation. Furthermore in regards to the lady with COPD, ativan should do nothing to help her panic attacks, its funny that the doctors decided to give this to her. Her panic attacks are akin to panicking when drowning. Due to the hyperinflation of her lungs and inability of her lungs to expire CO2, she has high concentrations of CO2 at the alveolar level leading to an upset in the gradient of the Bohr effect, so obviously CO2 isn't good here. But only at the level of her lungs because of the damage to the lungs. Interestingly enough COPD patients are put on high fat, high protein, low carb diets in the hospital to lower CO2 production (heres a +1 for Ray Peat in regards to sugar oxidation increasing CO2 production. They do these diets to decrease CO2 production at the cellular level so that less CO2 gets trapped at the lung (the lungs are unable to expire CO2 due to the fibrosis and damages tissue decreasing recoil/ compliance and trapping air).

In regards to hypercapnia from smoking or from COPD this is different than increasing CO2 from a metabolic standpoint. Hypercapnia from COPD or smoking is due to what I described above; essentially effecting the Bohr mechanism by increasing the CO2 at the level of the lungs and thus inhibiting CO2 unloading and O2 uptake. This is not ideal for CO2, as far as I understand CO2's main purpose is to increase oxygenation of the cells and tissues to provide a oxidizing agent (O2) to oxidize glucose (I'm pretty sure its oxidizing agent, I confuse myself sometimes haha). This should be increased by increasing metabolism at the cellular level, not by increasing CO2 at the lungs. The reason, Bipap and Cpap work is because they force O2 in the lungs and adjust the O2 concentration allowing the Bohr effect to work.

In regards to the kyphosis and programmers sitting, again the problem could be expiration of CO2 from the lungs due to lack of movement affecting the Bohr effect, not directly the high CO2 produced from metabolism.

Hypercapnia could increase cardiac output, through the activation of the nervous system as stated but in response to the body sensing high CO2 levels thus effecting the ability of the RBC's to perform the Bohr effect (O2 unloading at the cellular level). Interestingly enough the body uses CO2 concentration as an indicator for respiratory drive, as opposed to O2, at least from what I was taught in nursing school.

Also, in regards to the discussion on pH of the blood stream, I think the regulation is pretty straight forward. I have worked in ICU with some pretty sick patients and have taken their ABG's. The body has a very effective system of controlling blood gasses, I don't think it gets thrown off as easily is discussed here.

Basics:
HCO3: 22-28 (increased HCO3 increases the alkalinity- controlled by kidney)
PaCO2: 35-45 (increased HCO3 increases acidity- controlled by breathing)
pH: 7.35-7.45 (adjust with the concentrations of these compounds^)
PaO2: 80-100

In increased or decreased pH, breathing is controlled short term to adjust CO2 concentration and thus adjust acidity. In longer term bicarbonate is adjusted by the kidney. These systems work together to provide stabilization of the blood pH. The only time I've seen a massive shifts in these values was in sepsis and in COPD, even very sick patients and surgical patients values were within the normal range.

You are confused. You need to look at ABG and VGB at the same time. Then you will understand that most of the tests that you saw are thrown massively in one side or another. Arterial blood is trying to compensate the cell. And the cell is trying to compensate the vein. they are all connected.

If you ever tested arterial blood for minerals and venous at the same time. You would understand how it all works. it is fascinating . If you have access to the equipment try it. And then try to change the PH of your system by taking alkaline or acidic things. and test all of this. You will be fascinated and you will see that your balance will be way off and you will see how artery will try to compensate the cell, and how vein will further clean out the imperfections of the arterial work. And how cell will try to find the balance with the vein not to cause huge PH shifts

And how minerals interact. How minerals in artery will be so much different than those in the vein. Since artery will be supporting metabolism and vein will support the outcome of the metabolism.

No one said that sugar does not increase Co2 production. it is obvious that it does. but eventually it will lower your potassium. and this will cause lower thyroid signaling.

 

[haidut]

.

 

[CLASH]

Hey gbolduev,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I could be confused, thats very possible. I could also not understand things to the same extent as you, thats also very possible. If your interested, I'd like to understand your point of view, I dont want to argue, just want to understand things how you understand them to some degree so that I can get your context and maybe see where my context is off and may need to be adjusted.

The sugar and CO2 thing was just a sixe note, I got some gratification out of seeing that when I was studying in school. It was cool to see my physiology studies have atleast some commonality with peat. It wasn't meant to be a jab at you, I apologize if it came off that way.

I understand that venous blood gas and arterial blood gas should be different with pH minerals, and CO2 and O2. Arterial would contain more O2 and be more basic because of the unloading of CO2 no? This would obviously chanhe the mineral content as the pH changes the gradients for the minerals entrance into the cells, as seen with potassium in diabetic ketoacidosis.

On this line, venous would be opposite due to the unloading of O2 and picking up of CO2, making it more acidic. (If any of this is wrong please correct me).

Witg this in mind where does excess sugar oxidation cause an issue? The CO2 and O2 levels will have to be different between arterial and venous. Is this not ok?

Thanks for your time gbolduev. I appreciate seeing a different context. I'd love to understand where your coming from so perhaps a synergy can be made between your understandings and some of Peats. We can take what works and discard what doesnt.

Also, everything I've written is my understanding, I could be wrong in some areas so feel free to correct me with your understanding.

 

[alywest]

@haidut your comment didn't come through for some reason!

 

[alywest]

For a couple months I slept with a pillowcase over my head cinched at the neck with elastic. Then I experimented with a denser fabric pillowcase and woke up hypoxic. Scared me enough to drop the whole thing.

Yikes, that's scary! Glad you're ok.

 

[alywest]

@CLASH I'm curious to know what you think about the following:

In Hypothyroidism you produce less carbon dioxide which in turn means more serotonin and lactic acid is produced which in Peat world is not desirable. Thanks for helping me understand more fully how the CO2 system works in the cells as opposed to increasing it in the lungs. Is it possible that hypothyroid people could even have too low of concentration of CO2 in the lungs necessitating the use of bag breathing? It sounds like you can really focus on producing it in the cells through sodium bicarbonate or eggshell calcium (calcium carbonate)

 

[haidut]

@haidut your comment didn't come through for some reason!

My comment was actually to call you and @Drareg to this thread to see what somebody else who works in ICU thinks about this. You pre-empted me and saw it quite quickly Let's see what @Drareg has to say about it. In my experience, pH is so tightly regulated that even a small change toward either one of the extremes means serious trouble. I have also not seen much change in pH unless the person has serotonin syndrome, sepsis, second and third degree burns or is dying from HIV-related pneumonia (where the lungs are obviously compromised).
So, the claim that some people are chronically stuck in a pH imbalance needs a lot more evidence for me to accept it. Hopefully somebody working in an ER would chime in. I think there were a few doctors who posted here in the past. Maybe @Sheila can chime in as well. For some reason I think she works in a hospital. Also, @Blossom, but she has not been around for a while.