warm body temp, nose and hands, cold feet?

TheSir

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Dear @GorillaHead, @Ben. and others.

I asked about this recently, I think it was amazoniac who suggested that I switch my computer chairs. This helped the problem some. However, what CURED the problem, was learning diaphragmatic breathing and committing to the Buteyko method of increasing control pause. You are running partially on stress hormones because your cellular energy metabolism is inhibited due to insufficient oxygen supply resulting from weak Bohr effect. When you get your CO2 tolerance up your stress hormones will go down and circulation in your most extreme extremities will improve significantly.
 

Ben.

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Dear @GorillaHead, @Ben. and others.

I asked about this recently, I think it was amazoniac who suggested that I switch my computer chairs. This helped the problem some. However, what CURED the problem, was learning diaphragmatic breathing and committing to the Buteyko method of increasing control pause. You are running partially on stress hormones because your cellular energy metabolism is inhibited due to insufficient oxygen supply resulting from weak Bohr effect. When you get your CO2 tolerance up your stress hormones will go down and circulation in your most extreme extremities will improve significantly.

Thanks! That comment is much appreaciated.

Last year i had some success with breath holds/wim hof breathing but after a while it had the opposite effects and i stopped doing them, but if i am completly honest ... perhaps i was fighting to hard into the holds.

Will check buteyko out. Diapraghma breathing interestingly makes me calm instantly, like i feel it in my head... love it. My idea was that postural issues restricted the diaphragma to expand/move properly while unconscious breathing is happening. I mean something had to induce the lower CO2 tolerance in the first place right?

I think gorillahead already ordered a new chair. So i guess we are/were kinda on the right track.
 

TheSir

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Thanks! That comment is much appreaciated.

Last year i had some success with breath holds/wim hof breathing but after a while it had the opposite effects and i stopped doing them, but if i am completly honest ... perhaps i was fighting to hard into the holds.

Will check buteyko out. Diapraghma breathing interestingly makes me calm instantly, like i feel it in my head... love it. My idea was that postural issues restricted the diaphragma to expand/move properly while unconscious breathing is happening. I mean something had to induce the lower CO2 tolerance in the first place right?

I think gorillahead already ordered a new chair. So i guess we are/were kinda on the right track.
WHM, at least in theory, sets out to achieve the same as the Buteyko method, but I think for many it achieves very much the opposite, i.e. lowered co2 tolerance due to the prerequisite hyperventilation that is performed before the breath holds. With Buteyko you just relax and breathe a little less so as to build up your co2 levels, then maintain this for 20 minutes, during which the chemoreceptors accept the higher co2 level as your new default set point, given that you are sufficiently relaxed. It's great because there's no stress metabolism involved in the process like there is with WHM. With daily 1-2 hours of relaxed breathing (or regular exercise -- they're 1:1 interchangeable pretty much) you will continue making steady progress. It may sound like a lot but doing reduced breathing feels really sweet and you can do it while surfing on the internet or watching TV. You will feel in your body the same kind of tingling that a beer or two would give you (which I think is also created by an increase in co2 levels due to the depressant effect alcohol has on breathing), along with increased focus and clarity.

Postural issues definitely sabotage diaphragmatic functioning, but likewise strong diaphragmatic functioning provides an important postural foundation for the whole anatomy, effortlessly guiding the rest of the body into proper postural form. You can even fix scoliosis by utilizing breathing/diaphragm correctly. I personally try to keep my diaphragm as expanded as possible 247. Doing walks like this is a great workout, at first it even made me nauseous due to the co2 buildup before my body got used to it. My nasal passages are always 100% wide open when walking with fully extended diaphragm, which feels very nice!
 

GorillaHead

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WHM, at least in theory, sets out to achieve the same as the Buteyko method, but I think for many it achieves very much the opposite, i.e. lowered co2 tolerance due to the prerequisite hyperventilation that is performed before the breath holds. With Buteyko you just relax and breathe a little less so as to build up your co2 levels, then maintain this for 20 minutes, during which the chemoreceptors accept the higher co2 level as your new default set point, given that you are sufficiently relaxed. It's great because there's no stress metabolism involved in the process like there is with WHM. With daily 1-2 hours of relaxed breathing (or regular exercise -- they're 1:1 interchangeable pretty much) you will continue making steady progress. It may sound like a lot but doing reduced breathing feels really sweet and you can do it while surfing on the internet or watching TV. You will feel in your body the same kind of tingling that a beer or two would give you (which I think is also created by an increase in co2 levels due to the depressant effect alcohol has on breathing), along with increased focus and clarity.

Postural issues definitely sabotage diaphragmatic functioning, but likewise strong diaphragmatic functioning provides an important postural foundation for the whole anatomy, effortlessly guiding the rest of the body into proper postural form. You can even fix scoliosis by utilizing breathing/diaphragm correctly. I personally try to keep my diaphragm as expanded as possible 247. Doing walks like this is a great workout, at first it even made me nauseous due to the co2 buildup before my body got used to it. My nasal passages are always 100% wide open when walking with fully extended diaphragm, which feels very nice!

So I think you are on to something, Ive gotten septoplasty twice and Ive been a massive mouth breather, the issue has been reduced by 80% I now practice correct tongue posture more often.


Thinking back to when I lay down, I dont always notice my feet warm up, only until I have really relaxed but perhaps whats really going on is my need for oxygen has reduced and now the body can compensate to warm up my heat. When I am standing up and doing things my need for oxygen is greater and maybe my breathing doesn't compensate and Ive been in such a bad habit of mouth breathing for a decade that it seems normal.

I got my herman miller embody (HIGHLY SUGGEST for those who work on a computer long hours)

So my seat posture should get fixed up soon, but I am really thinking that you are right about the breathing being the issue, so gonna focus on tongue posture and breathing in the meantime and I will report back
 

Ben.

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WHM, at least in theory, sets out to achieve the same as the Buteyko method, but I think for many it achieves very much the opposite, i.e. lowered co2 tolerance due to the prerequisite hyperventilation that is performed before the breath holds.

Postural issues definitely sabotage diaphragmatic functioning, but likewise strong diaphragmatic functioning provides an important postural foundation for the whole anatomy, effortlessly guiding the rest of the body into proper postural form. You can even fix scoliosis by utilizing breathing/diaphragm correctly. I personally try to keep my diaphragm as expanded as possible 247. Doing walks like this is a great workout, at first it even made me nauseous due to the co2 buildup before my body got used to it. My nasal passages are always 100% wide open when walking with fully extended diaphragm, which feels very nice!

Yeah i always knew wim hof is about training people to switch between stress and no stress by activating/jumping between the parasympathethic and the sympathetic nervous system trough breathing ... but i had this so wrong, i thought the 30 breaths before the holds were the calming part and the hold is the stress part (which it can be, if you overdo the hold) ...

So i just tested this troughout the past 2 days ... what can i say the experience is amazing.

I feel it is not as effective when sitting instead of doing it while walking (which may hint in sitting being for w/e reason a problem).

When i went off work for a break at 12 am to get some food, walking trough the city i started slowing down my breath ... made me feel in control, open, focused ... dare i say, confident? no issues holding eye contact, observing everything calmy while walking. Ease of walking with proper posture and improvement in my vision (it fluctuates, but good reaction for the first/second day i dare say)

2 hours ago i watched this video and ill read/watch alot more ... what he explained is doing that slowing breath down thing with only one nostril open ... the air hunger is a little harder but suddenly my hands got warmer while sitting doing it a couple of times.

Thanks again, this is intriguing!
 

TheSir

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Yeah i always knew wim hof is about training people to switch between stress and no stress by activating/jumping between the parasympathethic and the sympathetic nervous system trough breathing ... but i had this so wrong, i thought the 30 breaths before the holds were the calming part and the hold is the stress part (which it can be, if you overdo the hold) ...

So i just tested this troughout the past 2 days ... what can i say the experience is amazing.

I feel it is not as effective when sitting instead of doing it while walking (which may hint in sitting being for w/e reason a problem).

When i went off work for a break at 12 am to get some food, walking trough the city i started slowing down my breath ... made me feel in control, open, focused ... dare i say, confident? no issues holding eye contact, observing everything calmy while walking. Ease of walking with proper posture and improvement in my vision (it fluctuates, but good reaction for the first/second day i dare say)

2 hours ago i watched this video and ill read/watch alot more ... what he explained is doing that slowing breath down thing with only one nostril open ... the air hunger is a little harder but suddenly my hands got warmer while sitting doing it a couple of times.

Thanks again, this is intriguing!
No problem, it's a fun subject to talk about. From Buteyko you'll also learn to measure your control pause, which is in essence a biomarker for your level of oxygenation. It is possibly the single most important biomarker of health, as generally anything that lowers CP is unhealthy and anything that raises it is healthy (from day to day, that is. Within a single day CP can still vary quite a lot much like the depth of your breathing). As you noted, sitting in a chair makes proper breathing less effective and it lowers CP too, which goes to show how unhealthy it is. Squatting or sitting crosslegged should be less harmful, but for a westerner it is going to require a lot of preliminary postural work to enable one to get into those positions.
 

GorillaHead

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I have finally figured out the cause of my cold feet people. I finally found out why alcohol and thc solve the problem.
Blood sugar.

Ive been taking cinnamon daily so this must be reducing my blood sugar alot.

Mild alcohol makes me warm. Increases blood glucose levels.

weed does the same

Guess why i am super warm in toasty when i am sleep. You guessed it! Blood sugar rises!

how does it do it. Cortisol. So my cortisol levels are probably too low.

thing is i want to keep my dheas low. So it seems like the only solution is to double down on carbs.

Adrenaline only exaceberated the prob

@TheSir

what are your thoughts on this?
 

TheSir

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I have finally figured out the cause of my cold feet people. I finally found out why alcohol and thc solve the problem.
Blood sugar.

Ive been taking cinnamon daily so this must be reducing my blood sugar alot.

Mild alcohol makes me warm. Increases blood glucose levels.

weed does the same

Guess why i am super warm in toasty when i am sleep. You guessed it! Blood sugar rises!

how does it do it. Cortisol. So my cortisol levels are probably too low.

thing is i want to keep my dheas low. So it seems like the only solution is to double down on carbs.

Adrenaline only exaceberated the prob

@TheSir

what are your thoughts on this?
At least it'll be easy to find out: your feet should warm up predictably after a meal and get colder the further away from meal you get. I don't remember if I mentioned it, but melatonin seems to warm up my feet too, both in endogenous and exogenous dosing. Usually when the bedtime was nearing suddenly my feet would warm up.
 

GorillaHead

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At least it'll be easy to find out: your feet should warm up predictably after a meal and get colder the further away from meal you get. I don't remember if I mentioned it, but melatonin seems to warm up my feet too, both in endogenous and exogenous dosing. Usually when the bedtime was nearing suddenly my feet would warm up.

well yesterday i had a ***t load of soda and my feet got warm and my body was so warm it was amazing. But obviously thats not a good way to sustain sugar levels. Gonna try honey

now i am trying to figure out how to be warm and keep my dheas low cause i beleive its a a major factor in hairloss. I learned that dheas rises when cortisol rises and when dheas protect one from diabetes. I just wish i could understand why some of us have higher levels do we have a more hypereflex response
 

redsun

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I have finally figured out the cause of my cold feet people. I finally found out why alcohol and thc solve the problem.
Blood sugar.

Ive been taking cinnamon daily so this must be reducing my blood sugar alot.

Mild alcohol makes me warm. Increases blood glucose levels.

weed does the same

Guess why i am super warm in toasty when i am sleep. You guessed it! Blood sugar rises!

how does it do it. Cortisol. So my cortisol levels are probably too low.

thing is i want to keep my dheas low. So it seems like the only solution is to double down on carbs.

Adrenaline only exaceberated the prob

@TheSir

what are your thoughts on this?

@GorillaHead didnt you take high doses of niacin before? This is what I have found in regards to this cold extremities issue. Noradrenaline is the problem of course you already figured that out. Both noradrenaline and adrenaline have similar effects. The main difference is because noradrenaline preferentially binds to alpha receptors, and the alpha 1 receptor is what causes vasoconstriction (cold extremities) while adrenaline mostly binds to beta receptors (unless you are in a severe stressful situation, where the adrenaline will rise so high it will activate alpha receptors as well). Beta 2 receptor activation actually increases vasodilation.

Back to the niacin. If you took high doses of niacin in the past this can exacerbate the issue. You end up with strongly imbalanced ratio of norepinephrine to epinephrine in favor of norepinephrine because you lost too many methyl donors due to high niacin intake. So in response to stress, your body relies mostly on norepinephrine to deal with stress instead of epinephrine since it is low (you need SAM-e to make epinephrine from norepinephrine, which is depleted by B3).

It doesnt necessarily have to be due to niacin intake either because you could have had the problem before if you lacked methyl donors even before that (undermethylated).
 

laleto12

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@GorillaHead didnt you take high doses of niacin before? This is what I have found in regards to this cold extremities issue. Noradrenaline is the problem of course you already figured that out. Both noradrenaline and adrenaline have similar effects. The main difference is because noradrenaline preferentially binds to alpha receptors, and the alpha 1 receptor is what causes vasoconstriction (cold extremities) while adrenaline mostly binds to beta receptors (unless you are in a severe stressful situation, where the adrenaline will rise so high it will activate alpha receptors as well). Beta 2 receptor activation actually increases vasodilation.

Back to the niacin. If you took high doses of niacin in the past this can exacerbate the issue. You end up with strongly imbalanced ratio of norepinephrine to epinephrine in favor of norepinephrine because you lost too many methyl donors due to high niacin intake. So in response to stress, your body relies mostly on norepinephrine to deal with stress instead of epinephrine since it is low (you need SAM-e to make epinephrine from norepinephrine, which is depleted by B3).

It doesnt necessarily have to be due to niacin intake either because you could have had the problem before if you lacked methyl donors even before that (undermethylated).
is there any other symptoms of undermethylation? Because i have the exact symptoms OP has.
 

GorillaHead

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@GorillaHead didnt you take high doses of niacin before? This is what I have found in regards to this cold extremities issue. Noradrenaline is the problem of course you already figured that out. Both noradrenaline and adrenaline have similar effects. The main difference is because noradrenaline preferentially binds to alpha receptors, and the alpha 1 receptor is what causes vasoconstriction (cold extremities) while adrenaline mostly binds to beta receptors (unless you are in a severe stressful situation, where the adrenaline will rise so high it will activate alpha receptors as well). Beta 2 receptor activation actually increases vasodilation.

Back to the niacin. If you took high doses of niacin in the past this can exacerbate the issue. You end up with strongly imbalanced ratio of norepinephrine to epinephrine in favor of norepinephrine because you lost too many methyl donors due to high niacin intake. So in response to stress, your body relies mostly on norepinephrine to deal with stress instead of epinephrine since it is low (you need SAM-e to make epinephrine from norepinephrine, which is depleted by B3).

It doesnt necessarily have to be due to niacin intake either because you could have had the problem before if you lacked methyl donors even before that (undermethylated).
Interesting very interesting. I will say today my hands do not get cold when gaming. Nor do they sweat like they used to. My feet continue to he cold. Is sam-e necessary?
 

redsun

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Interesting very interesting. I will say today my hands do not get cold when gaming. Nor do they sweat like they used to. My feet continue to he cold. Is sam-e necessary?
Likely choline intake needs to be bumped up. This will increase vasodilation through increased acetylcholine synthesis. And you should take TMG, not SAM. TMG will recycle methionine which will become SAM on its own in the body.
 

GorillaHead

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Likely choline intake needs to be bumped up. This will increase vasodilation through increased acetylcholine synthesis. And you should take TMG, not SAM. TMG will recycle methionine which will become SAM on its own in the body.
I actually recently started doing 600mg of choline bitrate. The body should convert that to tmg tho right?

And thoughts on calcium?
 

redsun

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I actually recently started doing 600mg of choline bitrate. The body should convert that to tmg tho right?

And thoughts on calcium?
Choline is preferentially used for phospholipid synthesis and acetylcholine synthesis. So depending on whether you meet choline needs, very little will be oxidized to betaine (TMG) which can then be used for methylation. I would try to get around 800mg of total choline daily and also supplement TMG 1-2g for methyl due to your past use of high dose niacin. 600mg of choline bitartrate provides 240mg of total choline.

Its even more important for men, who lack estrogen, to get plenty of choline in the diet because estrogen induces the PEMT enzyme which makes choline from SAM. This is why men can be more prone to stress-induced vasoconstriction since acetylcholine is an important vasodilator and we cant make choline endogenously. Thus are more dependent on our diet to meet choline needs.

There is no direct way calcium would help.
 

GorillaHead

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Choline is preferentially used for phospholipid synthesis and acetylcholine synthesis. So depending on whether you meet choline needs, very little will be oxidized to betaine (TMG) which can then be used for methylation. I would try to get around 800mg of total choline daily and also supplement TMG 1-2g for methyl due to your past use of high dose niacin. 600mg of choline bitartrate provides 240mg of total choline.

Its even more important for men, who lack estrogen, to get plenty of choline in the diet because estrogen induces the PEMT enzyme which makes choline from SAM. This is why men can be more prone to stress-induced vasoconstriction since acetylcholine is an important vasodilator and we cant make choline endogenously. Thus are more dependent on our diet to meet choline needs.

There is no direct way calcium would help.
Thanks man. Love the advice and well thought out response. Very educational!
 

Borz

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I still have this to the T. Cold ears which i dont notice but cold to the touch. Cold feet made worse when i play first person shooters

when i am finally asleep i always wake up with warm feet. Once i start going about my day they cool down.

only things that ever “treated” this issues is marijuana and or alcohol.

ive done everything to improve my thyroid. Can it truly be lack of calories idk hard to believe. Is it related to adrenaline perhaps

Gut? Adrenaline? Calories?

so far no one has been able to figure it out for years not even my doc.
I have exactly the same issue as you for a while now. I’m starting to think it’s related to dopamine-adrenaline conversion. the fact that this gets worse for you when playing first person shooters supports this, since playing video games increases dopamine, which then can get converted to adrenaline. dopamine is produced when we wake up, so you getting cold soon after starting your day also supports this. I also get cold feet soon after waking up. I feel like the issue is dopamine getting converted to adrenaline too much for some reason, and stopping/reducing this conversion somehow should resolve the issue. @Hans @haidut @CLASH do you think this might be the mechanism at play? any idea how we can reduce the conversion of dopamine to adrenaline? eating lots of salt?
 

Borz

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@GorillaHead didnt you take high doses of niacin before? This is what I have found in regards to this cold extremities issue. Noradrenaline is the problem of course you already figured that out. Both noradrenaline and adrenaline have similar effects. The main difference is because noradrenaline preferentially binds to alpha receptors, and the alpha 1 receptor is what causes vasoconstriction (cold extremities) while adrenaline mostly binds to beta receptors (unless you are in a severe stressful situation, where the adrenaline will rise so high it will activate alpha receptors as well). Beta 2 receptor activation actually increases vasodilation.

Back to the niacin. If you took high doses of niacin in the past this can exacerbate the issue. You end up with strongly imbalanced ratio of norepinephrine to epinephrine in favor of norepinephrine because you lost too many methyl donors due to high niacin intake. So in response to stress, your body relies mostly on norepinephrine to deal with stress instead of epinephrine since it is low (you need SAM-e to make epinephrine from norepinephrine, which is depleted by B3).

It doesnt necessarily have to be due to niacin intake either because you could have had the problem before if you lacked methyl donors even before that (undermethylated).
I also took high dose niacin in the past. You might be right about this. I’m going to experiment with TMG starting tomorrow and will report back.
 

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