Waking Up At Night, PCOS, Acanthosis Nigricans

[thebigpeatowski]

I found this quote from Ray Peat's article -Estrogen and Brain Aging in Men and Womenepression, Energy and Stress

Besides providing new insights into biological energy and aging, the recognition that estrogen activates the stress hormone system-the pituitary-adrenal system- also provides clear insight into other problems, such as polycystic ovary syndrome, hirsutism, adrenal hyperplasia, Cushing's disease, etc.

Thanks Blossom, this is helpful! I appreciate you searching for it.

I don't know why I'm so hung up on this. I can't figure out why some PCOS symptoms go along with high testosterone in some, but not in others. And what is exactly causing the formation of excess body hair when high testosterone isn't present. I guess Peat is giving the bigger picture... I'm curious about the exact pathway of what causes what causes what to lead to the hair growth, etc. Or maybe it's in the articles and I'm just not well-read enough yet to see it.

High DHEA will cause hair...speaking from my own experience.

 

[Blossom]

I found this quote from Ray Peat's article -Estrogen and Brain Aging in Men and Womenepression, Energy and Stress

Besides providing new insights into biological energy and aging, the recognition that estrogen activates the stress hormone system-the pituitary-adrenal system- also provides clear insight into other problems, such as polycystic ovary syndrome, hirsutism, adrenal hyperplasia, Cushing's disease, etc.

Thanks Blossom, this is helpful! I appreciate you searching for it.

I don't know why I'm so hung up on this. I can't figure out why some PCOS symptoms go along with high testosterone in some, but not in others. And what is exactly causing the formation of excess body hair when high testosterone isn't present. I guess Peat is giving the bigger picture... I'm curious about the exact pathway of what causes what causes what to lead to the hair growth, etc. Or maybe it's in the articles and I'm just not well-read enough yet to see it.

High DHEA will cause hair...speaking from my own experience.

I believe excessive dhea gets converted to estrogen. Hirsutism is basically when females grow facial hair but I'm sure there is more going on besides just that. I personally just try to keep my progesterone levels good and do everything I can to optimize cellular respiration. Maintain adequate thyroid, maintain adequate nutrition, and bag breathe 2-3 times per day. After I had that set back when my mom was ill I've really tried to pay attention to managing unnecessary stress. It seems like sticking with the Peat basics really does balance things out with time no matter what label we carry for our energy imbalances. BP has had great success with decreasing facial hair!

 

[Such_Saturation]

I'm still confused about some of it...
Certain symptoms that have been associated with PCOS, such as facial hair, hair loss on head, and ovarian cysts, can be attributed to high cortisol levels. Can someone explain how the high cortisol levels cause those symptoms.... Does the cortisol raise estrogen... causing unwanted hair?
I think I missed it in Ray's article if he explains it. I know he says that all diabetics are essentially hypothyroid... Which could then lead to hair loss on head. But why the excess hair growth elsewhere (I'm curious to know why both when the testosterone is raised in an individual, and when it isn't).

Also, with pcos, those above-listed symptoms are often coupled with high testosterone levels. Is the cortisol causing the testosterone to rise? Or is something else going on?

If we wish to trust Wikipedia, then let us read on.

If <<Cushing's syndrome describes the signs and symptoms associated with prolonged exposure to inappropriately high levels of the hormone cortisol. >>

And if Cushing's disease is a cause of that, by means of too much ACTH;

then if this excess of ACTH is caused by either a pituitary adenoma OR too much CRH;

if we now consider that the former is not your case, we imagine (if we trust Wikipedia) this mechanism:

<<CRH is secreted by the paraventricular nucleus (PVN) of the hypothalamus in response to stress.>>

<<The portal system carries the CRH to the anterior lobe of the pituitary, where it stimulates corticotropes to secrete adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH) and other biologically-active substances (β-endorphin). ACTH stimulates the synthesis of cortisol, glucocorticoids, mineralocorticoids and DHEA.>>

<<ACTH influences steroid hormone secretion by both rapid short-term mechanisms that take place within minutes and slower long-term actions.>>

This means you will have more androgens than you want, just because of not eating very well or just thinking too much about depressing issues.

But wait: <<ACTH is a cleavage product of the pro-hormone, proopiomelanocortin, which also produces other hormones including α-MSH that stimulates the production of melanin.>>

The MSH is made from ACTH. <<An increase in MSH will cause a darkening in humans too. Melanocyte-stimulating hormone increases in humans during pregnancy. This, along with increased estrogens, causes increased pigmentation in pregnant women. Cushing's syndrome due to excess adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH) may also result in hyperpigmentation, such as acanthosis nigricans in the axilla.>>

PCOS is also associated with the darkening. So you see it all comes down being underfed.

<<Elevated levels of total cortisol can also be due to estrogen found in oral contraceptive pills that contain a mixture of estrogen and progesterone, leading to Pseudo-Cushing's syndrome. Estrogen can cause an increase of cortisol-binding globulin and thereby cause the total cortisol level to be elevated. However, the total free cortisol, which is the active hormone in the body, as measured by a 24 hour urine collection for urinary free cortisol, is normal.>>

In this case they invent the new "pseudo" version of the disease because they can't get it through their skulls that the cause is estrogen and/or stress (which makes you need cortisol to make sugar).

Take care of yourself

 

[Blossom]

Such_Saturation said

So you see it all comes down being underfed.

Thanks Such_Saturation!

 

[Katty]

Such_Saturation said

So you see it all comes down being underfed.

Thanks Such_Saturation!

Yes, thanks indeed! That is all very helpful. I really appreciate you posting all that!

And thanks Blossom and bigpeatowski for your thoughts as well!

 

[thebigpeatowski]

BP has had great success with decreasing facial hair!

It's true, I HAD a beard (hundreds of course black whiskers), but I have never been diagnosed with PCOS nor have I ever missed a period or had fertility problems. However, I did have very high DHEA levels for years, some years my testosterone was elevated as well, but not as often as the DHEA. Six months of massive doses of Progest-E fixed everything....I have NO idea what all of this means...your mileage may vary.

 

[Peata]

Can the "underfed" he's talking about also be caused by insulin resistance, where glucose can't get into the cells - body is "underfed" though one may be constantly hungry and even overweight.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Can the "underfed" he's talking about also be caused by insulin resistance, where glucose can't get into the cells - body is "underfed" though one may be constantly hungry and even overweight.

I believe so...also intestinal malabsorption issues can cause someone to be underfed.

 

[Such_Saturation]

If androgens are the symptom and estrogen is the cause, when androgens turn into estrogen the problem just feeds itself (and drug companies). It is up to you to break the circle. Or rather the spiral.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Can the "underfed" he's talking about also be caused by insulin resistance, where glucose can't get into the cells - body is "underfed" though one may be constantly hungry and even overweight.

Yes, everything is both a cause and a complication after a while.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Seems you have to use everything possible to break out of the vicious circle.

 

[LucyL]

Do you think there is benefit to canned fruit? It's hard to get lots of fresh, ripe fruit daily.

I remember Peat mentioning (on a radio show I think) that frozen fruit would be a good way to go, because freezing allowed them to use the ripest fruit without risk of spoilage.

Personally I wouldn't eat anything from CA or the entire western US due to the Fukushima radiation contaminating that entire region. Anything from the southern hemisphere would be good.

 

[Peata]

Do you think there is benefit to canned fruit? It's hard to get lots of fresh, ripe fruit daily.

I remember Peat mentioning (on a radio show I think) that frozen fruit would be a good way to go, because freezing allowed them to use the ripest fruit without risk of spoilage.

Personally I wouldn't eat anything from CA or the entire western US due to the Fukushima radiation contaminating that entire region. Anything from the southern hemisphere would be good.

I forgot about Fukushima in CA.