Waking baby, sleep-deprived wife

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Apr 14, 2020
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Hi RPF - first-time poster,

My son, Owen, is 18 months old. My wife breastfeeds him throughout the day and he eats a bioenergetic diet in addition to her breastmilk. The environment in our home has been thoroughly considered from light to EMF, to natural materials, and to air quality. We've talked with our friend from Primitive Initiative - and we've experimented with many things so far:
  • Nutritionally - Lots of breast milk, ice cream, sweet rice pudding, pudding, cheesy potatoes, smoothies, and much more
  • Supplements - this seems to have the most impact when we give him a half corn kernel of progesterone with ice cream. I was unsure if this could interrupt the little man's hormones at this age. My wife is desperate for a solution. We also frequently use 35-70 mg of aspirin also with ice cream.
  • Sleep routine - we set dim lighting, wind down with books, sometimes take a warm bath, and make sure he is well-fed the hrs leading up to bed
We have a tremendous deal of gratitude for everyone in the bioenergetic community, thank you for your time in advance!
Anthony, Melissa, and Owen
 
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thegiantess

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You’re looking for ways to reduce night waking? In my experience the only thing that will cause them to no longer wake in the night is to cease breastfeeding and have them rely solely on solid foods. If he is getting a substantial amount of calories from breast milk and has made that association to waking and being fed of course he will wake. I will say though, even after fully weaned kids wake frequently in the night and ebb and flow with it until they’re like 4-5.
Do you use a sound machine? White noise machine? Fan? My kids have always slept with some white noise and I know a lot of parents form whom it was a game changer. Good luck.
 

Jkbp

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In my experience, If a baby is still waking nightly, at 18 months, then he is waking out of habit. If he is getting sufficient calories during the day, he does not need to eat at night. Try reading the “No Cry Sleep Solution”. That book helped me to “sleep train” my kids. They both slept through the night from 1 year on. It will take some discipline, on your part :)
 

InChristAlone

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The only thing that got my son to sleep through the night was for me to leave him with his Dad. He was nursing all night long. So when he turned 2 I left the bedroom. Of course then I never returned because my husband started snoring pretty bad by the time I wanted to try to come back. And that had near irreparable effects on our marriage. So be aware of that! I know what it's like to feel like the walking dead, hope you all figure it out, please know it is normal for him to want to nurse at night, it's just not optimal for the Mom especially if she is getting up to do it. I co slept with him and still had a terrible time sleeping. The progesterone and aspirin might be unwarranted for this issue. He may just have an anxious attachment to nursing at night.
 

Peatful

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Dec 8, 2016
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Hi RPF - first-time poster,

My son, Owen, is 18 months old. My wife breastfeeds him throughout the day and he eats a bioenergetic diet in addition to her breastmilk. The environment in our home has been thoroughly considered from light to EMF, to natural materials, and to air quality. We've talked with our friend who you've probably heard interview Ray before, Ozan Kalpak - Primitive Initiative - and we've experimented with many things so far:
  • Nutritionally - Lots of breast milk, ice cream, sweet rice pudding, pudding, cheesy potatoes, smoothies, and much more
  • Supplements - this seems to have the most impact when we give him a half corn kernel of progesterone with ice cream. I was unsure if this could interrupt the little man's hormones at this age. My wife is desperate for a solution. We also frequently use 35-70 mg of aspirin also with ice cream.
  • Sleep routine - we set dim lighting, wind down with books, sometimes take a warm bath, and make sure he is well-fed the hrs leading up to bed
We have a tremendous deal of gratitude for everyone in the bioenergetic community, thank you for your time in advance!
Anthony, Melissa, and Owen
Unclear. Is this new or habitual?

Habitual- read above posts.

New for the last couple weeks- developmental or growth spurt.

Children will teach you- even if you think you are doing everything right- it doesn’t matter, right?
They are their own little people for us to mostly enjoy vs. manage.
Try not to overthink.
It will pass- even if you get everything “right” or everything “wrong”- it will pass.

Hang in there.
 
OP
P
Joined
Apr 14, 2020
Messages
7
You’re looking for ways to reduce night waking? In my experience the only thing that will cause them to no longer wake in the night is to cease breastfeeding and have them rely solely on solid foods. If he is getting a substantial amount of calories from breast milk and has made that association to waking and being fed of course he will wake. I will say though, even after fully weaned kids wake frequently in the night and ebb and flow with it until they’re like 4-5.
Do you use a sound machine? White noise machine? Fan? My kids have always slept with some white noise and I know a lot of parents form whom it was a game changer. Good luck.
Honestly, we're looking for ways for my wife to continue breastfeeding and have the little man wake up a few times without throwing a fit when its time to go back to sleep. We have a Hypoair filter, but we're going to try a CD player with some different tracks for white noise or calming music. Thank you for your thoughtful response!
 
OP
P
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Messages
7
In my experience, If a baby is still waking nightly, at 18 months, then he is waking out of habit. If he is getting sufficient calories during the day, he does not need to eat at night. Try reading the “No Cry Sleep Solution”. That book helped me to “sleep train” my kids. They both slept through the night from 1 year on. It will take some discipline, on your part :)
It definitely is now out of habit. With that being said, I'm on the fence about sleep training as it is. Not that it can't be effective, I'm just not sure if it is the approach I will take.
 
OP
P
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Messages
7
The only thing that got my son to sleep through the night was for me to leave him with his Dad. He was nursing all night long. So when he turned 2 I left the bedroom. Of course then I never returned because my husband started snoring pretty bad by the time I wanted to try to come back. And that had near irreparable effects on our marriage. So be aware of that! I know what it's like to feel like the walking dead, hope you all figure it out, please know it is normal for him to want to nurse at night, it's just not optimal for the Mom especially if she is getting up to do it. I co slept with him and still had a terrible time sleeping. The progesterone and aspirin might be unwarranted for this issue. He may just have an anxious attachment to nursing at night.
We coslept to 8 months and considering going back. I absolutely recognize the mom factor in bed. Little man wants to be by mom and can wake her even when rolling around. I slept on the floor with him the other night and he was just fine with me. My wife and I wouldn't do the bed split as we enjoy the intimacy of sleeping in the same bed as each other. My wife appreciates the effectiveness of progesterone and aspirin, but I try to make sure it is used only when necessary as I agree that it may be unwarranted and we should let that magnificent bioenergetic baby do his thing.
 
OP
P
Joined
Apr 14, 2020
Messages
7
Unclear. Is this new or habitual?

Habitual- read above posts.

New for the last couple weeks- developmental or growth spurt.

Children will teach you- even if you think you are doing everything right- it doesn’t matter, right?
They are their own little people for us to mostly enjoy vs. manage.
Try not to overthink.
It will pass- even if you get everything “right” or everything “wrong”- it will pass.

Hang in there.
Since we broke our sleep training routine 6 months ago, it has been habitually happening 5 nights a week. He usually has 2 nights/week where he only wakes 2 times and happily feeds then goes back to sleep. This is the behavior we appreciate and wonder why it isn't consistently like this

100%!! Children are amazing and out of respect for all of their wonder, I don't want to manage them beyond setting basic boundaries for their safety and guidance. Ray and Charles Eisenstein articulate my feelings well.
 

Asya_D

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Nov 3, 2020
Messages
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My son is 17 months old (my second kid) and I recently quit nursing.
At first I reduced the feeding to 2 times a day (morning and evening), and then he'd ask for breast milk in the middle of the night. I got a baby bottle and pacifier next to him at night (he sleeps in a side sleeper next to me). First few nights he'd wake up and demand, even cry, but I soothed him by patting his back and offering him water. He was unhappy, but after a few nights - he stopped for asking for breastfeeding, and I realized - it was a habit all along. Babies at this age don't need food at night to sleep through the night. It's only a habit. Your wife still can nurse during the day (advice - remove any association with the sleep, make it unrelated), and sleep through the night. And yes, I've finally started sleeping through the night!!
 

StephanF

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Is the bed place of the baby’s bed possibly exposed to so-called noxious earth energies? Sleeping on a Hartmann or Curry grid crossing or water vein? I have posted on that in the past, search my earlier posts on grounding.

My best high school friend’s youngest son didn’t finish high school but then his father moved his bed, then his son went back to school, was in the top of the class, got his electrical engineering degree and got a very good job at the German Bundesbahn (railway). Just by moving the bed out of a noxious energy line that I identified. He is married and has his first daughter.

Find a dowser or educate yourself how to do it and check the baby’s bed place.

Also facing the head north sometimes helps, too. Another possibility is using a grounding bedsheet. They sell those at Amazon.
 
OP
P
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Apr 14, 2020
Messages
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My son is 17 months old (my second kid) and I recently quit nursing.
At first I reduced the feeding to 2 times a day (morning and evening), and then he'd ask for breast milk in the middle of the night. I got a baby bottle and pacifier next to him at night (he sleeps in a side sleeper next to me). First few nights he'd wake up and demand, even cry, but I soothed him by patting his back and offering him water. He was unhappy, but after a few nights - he stopped for asking for breastfeeding, and I realized - it was a habit all along. Babies at this age don't need food at night to sleep through the night. It's only a habit. Your wife still can nurse during the day (advice - remove any association with the sleep, make it unrelated), and sleep through the night. And yes, I've finally started sleeping through the night!!
I'm glad you are sleeping through the night!! It surely makes life feel a lot better. We're going to stick it out feeding on demand for a while with more experimentation but appreciate knowing that there is an alternative that worked for a similar aged young one.
 
OP
P
Joined
Apr 14, 2020
Messages
7
Is the bed place of the baby’s bed possibly exposed to so-called noxious earth energies? Sleeping on a Hartmann or Curry grid crossing or water vein? I have posted on that in the past, search my earlier posts on grounding.

My best high school friend’s youngest son didn’t finish high school but then his father moved his bed, then his son went back to school, was in the top of the class, got his electrical engineering degree and got a very good job at the German Bundesbahn (railway). Just by moving the bed out of a noxious energy line that I identified. He is married and has his first daughter.

Find a dowser or educate yourself how to do it and check the baby’s bed place.

Also facing the head north sometimes helps, too. Another possibility is using a grounding bedsheet. They sell those at Amazon.
We definitely need to do this. Was just talking to a friend about this.

We are facing north and have an EMF canopy that I've waited to ground..perhaps now is my moment.
 

StephanF

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We definitely need to do this. Was just talking to a friend about this.

We are facing north and have an EMF canopy that I've waited to ground..perhaps now is my moment.
Please let us know if it helped. Also consider moving the bed.
 

Beastmode

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Feb 7, 2017
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Our little one was so used to being breastfed, the only way we broke this cycle at night (after 2 years of this) was for me (daddy) to be with her at night whenever she woke. It took us 2 nights before she got used to mommy not giving her the boob. As long as the baby is fed well during the day, there's plenty of stored fuel available to sleep throughout the night.

You have to stick to it though. Unless the baby is sick for some reason, keep mommy away during the night.

Turning off wifi, etc didn't come close to being as effective than simply keeping the boob away until morning time.
 

catan

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Aug 22, 2013
Messages
225
I am nursing my third child, he is almost 2.5. Still wakes a few times at night to nurse. Right now we have his bed pushed up against my side of the bed, and he finds his way next to me at night.

We have tried to night wean him before when he was a little over 2. His father put him to sleep and comforted him at night while I slept elsewhere. It took 3 nights and he slept through the night for at least a month. Then we took a short trip, he got very attached, had a couple bouts of teething and colds, and we are back to the situation above.

Honestly with co sleeping it is not too bad for me. My husband wants me to wean him, it is a sore spot for us, but I want to at least nurse him through this winter and till after his molars come in.

I have two older children I nursed till past 3, and they didn’t sleep through the night till they were 5.
 

YamnayaMommy

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Sep 18, 2019
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We coslept to 8 months and considering going back. I absolutely recognize the mom factor in bed. Little man wants to be by mom and can wake her even when rolling around. I slept on the floor with him the other night and he was just fine with me. My wife and I wouldn't do the bed split as we enjoy the intimacy of sleeping in the same bed as each other. My wife appreciates the effectiveness of progesterone and aspirin, but I try to make sure it is used only when necessary as I agree that it may be unwarranted and we should let that magnificent bioenergetic baby do his thing.
I’m responding to this old post only to caution that I am sure that ray peat has advised, in interviews, against giving progesterone to male children because it may interfere with the development of their sex organs.

Also, I am astonished that anyone would expect a child under three to sleep through the night. You can train them to go back to sleep and it will work until the next sickness or vacation and then you have to start over. My recommendation is to let toddler sleep nearby, on a mattress on the floor, until he’s old enough to reason with about sleeping arrangements (like 4-5).
 
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