Vitamin K1 Vs. K2 And How Much To Take With Aspirin?

[j.]

I don't think Peat recommended amounts apply to K2 of the type MK7, the type that is usually sold in micrograms. Only K1 and K2 of type MK4 are sold in milligrams, as far as I know. Maybe because it's not known whether other types are safe to take in milligrams.

 

[jyb]

If I take a daily aspirin (0.5-2 tablets a day), after some time I start to get more prone to nosebleed. I find that I can avoid that if I drink very high quality milk (grass fed - not just the regular "organic" milk which didn't give me this benefit). It seems like it is high in K2, or something that prevents this. I don't supplement with K2 anymore because previously I found that it affected my sleep, so its good to know that some milk have all that is needed...

 

[kiran]

I think Ray has recommended LEF Super K. MK4, MK7 and K1 in one supp.

 

[j.]

I don't supplement with K2 anymore because previously I found that it affected my sleep, so its good to know that some milk have all that is needed...

I have the wild guess that it might be good to experiment with taking some calcium carbonate when taking K2, as K2 might lower blood calcium according to some.

 

[kiran]

I don't supplement with K2 anymore because previously I found that it affected my sleep, so its good to know that some milk have all that is needed...

I have the wild guess that it might be good to experiment with taking some calcium carbonate when taking K2, as K2 might lower blood calcium according to some.

Also, you might want to take it in the morning.

 

[j.]

Also, you might want to take it in the morning.

Do you know why?

 

[kiran]

Also, you might want to take it in the morning.

Do you know why?

It gives me energy, so I take it in the morning. I'm not sure exactly why that is the case.

K2 has a role in mitochondrial energy production.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 101240.htm

K2 also boosts testosterone production.

 

[jyb]

Also, you might want to take it in the morning.

I've considered that, but the bad effects on sleep and energy remained.

 

[Strongbad]

I don't know if you guys notice this, but since I've been taking loads of K2 from Super K supplement and duck eggs, my face has become noticeably wider, giving it a more masculine look. I have more refined chin and jaws now. I don't know if it's really the K2 doing the work or if anyone has experienced the same thing

 

[jimmyquick]

I don't know if you guys notice this, but since I've been taking loads of K2 from Super K supplement and duck eggs, my face has become noticeably wider, giving it a more masculine look. I have more refined chin and jaws now. I don't know if it's really the K2 doing the work or if anyone has experienced the same thing

How much is loads if you don't mind my asking? Sometimes I noticed when I use take like 15-20mg for a few days in a row I would get really creaky joints in my legs. Wasn't sure if it was good or not. Never noticed a wider face, but curious to see how much you are taking for that effect.

These days I just try and take enough to keep plaque off my teeth. Usually ends up being like 1-5mg a day.

 

[Strongbad]

I take 2 to 3 Super K pills per day, so that accounts about 4.4mg to 6.6mg per day. And I also eat 2 free-range non-soy duck eggs per day, so it should have lots of it. I've done this for about 1 month now.

I found out that basically to get the effect on the face bones, K2 needs to be supplemented with vitamin D and Calcium. Makes sense.

 

[paymanz]

it is a old topic but i just want say Vitamin K epoxide reductase is not an enzyme to convert k1 to k2 , this enzyme just recycles k2 after it used in body to carboxylate vit-k dependant proteins.i searched and just found this,please correct me if im wrong.

 

[mayweatherking]

post 4415 The ability of K1 to do *anything* in the body will be directly affected by one's ability to convert K1 to K2, and then by the amount of carbon dioxide available. This is because before K1 can affect the carboxylation (activation) of proteins involved in *both clotting and bone calcification* it has to be converted to K2.

So, that's really nice if K1 works for some people, but that's not going to be the case for everyone. That's because K1 is converted to K2 by digestive flora and the endogenous enzyme vitamin K epoxide reductase (VKORC1). There are several polymorphisms in the VKORC1 gene which can affect the downstream activation of both enzymes involved in bone calcification (osteocalcin) and clotting (clotting factors). Taking antibiotics or living in a sterile environment can ameliorate K2 levels in rats.

Aspirin specifically works on this system by increasing bleeding, and also inhibiting VKORC1. So, expecting K1 to work -- well, that's basically cheering it on to compete with aspirin to activate rather than inhibit VKORC1. But taking K2 bypasses VKORC1 entirely, ensuring that a certain amount of K works on the gamma glutamyl carboxylase enzyme to carboxylate (activate) downstream processes, whereas that is going to be lessened in the situation where one is taking K1 alone, expecting it to compete with the inhibitor (aspirin) of VKORC1. (I explained this in two different ways in this paragraph, so hopefully that is not too confusing).

There are also potential polymorphisms in the gamma glutamyl carboxylase gene -- the enzyme that carboxylates the downstream proteins involved in both bone calcification and clotting. So, the rate limiting factors for this step are going to be 1) availability of ****K2***** (not K1), 2) availability of CO2, and 3) active gamma glutamyl carboxylase enzyme.

So, in short, in order to increase the likelihood of aspirin not being problematic, one should be taking K2, and being sure to otherwise support respiration such that there would be enough CO2, and be aware that there could be an extra challenge in the sense of gastrointestinal flora or genetics for some individuals. Those individuals might have indication of this possibility through 1) easy bruising, 2) petechiae or other signs of bleeding, 3) gastrointestinal ulceration, or 4) spitting up blood.

Of course, perhaps there are no actual metabolic roadblocks, and a person is just overdosing on aspirin in the face of a deficiency in vitamin K, which could be from eating a low-fat diet, other other drain on the clotting system (years of PUFA), which would decrease both absorption and dietary availability of the nutrient.

But it seems like a no-brainer to me: supplement aspirin, eat low-fat, and either don't take any K, or take mostly K1, and sure, there may be some ulceration or bleeding problems. Or development of cavities or bone fractures.

A better course of action is probably to supplement K2, eat a moderate amount of fat, and supplement aspirin after establishing this groundwork.

Why do you say cavity or bone fractures from aspirin? I notice teeth ache from aspirin but I didnt realize you had to take k2 and aspirin together. I. Took k2 but on skin and assuned it was on my body. I just took them together orally and not as baf tooth ache but slightly thrre.. whag does aspirin tooth ache mea ?

 

[PeatThemAll]

post 76422 I take 2 to 3 Super K pills per day, so that accounts about 4.4mg to 6.6mg per day. And I also eat 2 free-range non-soy duck eggs per day, so it should have lots of it. I've done this for about 1 month now.

I found out that basically to get the effect on the face bones, K2 needs to be supplemented with vitamin D and Calcium. Makes sense.

If you go by Jeff T. Bowles's book (the guy who took up to 100k IUs of Vitamin D a day for long periods of time), he says that vitamin D is the great reshaper of bone *hormone* and that, in the process, it pulls lots of calcium out of the blood in the process. However Vit.D intake needs to be balanced with Vit.K, as it was found out that those who had problems with big Vit.D intake had said problems because there was no Vit.K to keep the calcium where it should e.g. the prime reserves.

So, yes, taking Vit.K might have led to you keeping more Ca in your bones, or maybe that Vit.D+K was finally working in synchrony and had the leeway to finalize the current (or past) 'construction orders' (for a lack of a better expression).

 

[Such_Saturation]

I've seen in a study that the only place vitamin K1 could thicken the blood was in some parts of the heart, and K2 did it nowhere at all.

 

[sladerunner69]

post 103221 I've seen in a study that the only place vitamin K1 could thicken the blood was in some parts of the heart, and K2 did it nowhere at all.

Plus all k1 supplements Ive seen are operating on orders of 50-150 mcg. Im not taking 10 tabs a day just for vit k.

 

[sladerunner69]

I've seen in a study that the only place vitamin K1 could thicken the blood was in some parts of the heart, and K2 did it nowhere at all.

There exists substantive evidence both empirical and anecdotal to account for the thickening of bloodular serums whence upon the presence of vitiminal class K.

 

[Such_Saturation]

anecdotal

I'm guessing it didn't get that thick, then

 

[Peata]

I've been taking 5 mg. k2 for a while now. Some days no aspirin, but usually at least one per day. Occasionally up to 6 - 8 aspirin per day. So far no issues with bleeding that I know of. If I get a little cut, it stops flowing fast and seals right up.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

I recently bought K1 and it seems to work better than K2(mk7).
Aspirin always made me feel a bit weird. Sort of fragile. It made me feel like i had to just be still and lay down. Sort of scary at times. Guess it's the blood thinning.

K2 didn't really help that much but K1 definitely helps.

I took up to 600mcg of K2 with 125-250mg of aspirin without much help.
When i take 500mcg K1 with 250mg aspirin, i can clearly feel it helping.
Now i take 1mg K1 with 250mg aspirin and i feel totally normal.