Vitamin K And Insomnia

[Frankdee20]

Damn, I don't like how the K makes me feel. I'm using LE brand Super k featuring the K1, MK 4, MK 7. I've only taken it twice, and both occasions aren't good. Insomnia, brain fog, even had bad cramps .Do I need the K with D3 I'm taking? 1,000-2,000 IU of D daily.
I take 1 Aspirin daily, 3-4 times a week.
Occasionally take a Vitamin E.
Never ran into issues with using those thinners on different days. But my sleep has been fine until I started the K.

 

[Constatine]

You can try consuming more calcium and magnesium and see if that helps.

 

[jyb]

A few years ago I noticed this with vitamin K2. I haven't tried it again since then.

 

[Frankdee20]

Thanks, not sure if I should return it, or just take once a week, since I'm now going to be on the D3.

 

[raypeatclips]

Does this happen taking it earlier in the day? Have you tried taking vit K on the skin as an oil? Myself, and others, including Peat himself, have had bad results from oral Vit K (and other oral vitamins) But taking topically has no issues.

 

[kiran]

Damn, I don't like how the K makes me feel. I'm using LE brand Super k featuring the K1, MK 4, MK 7.

I seem to respond badly to the LE super K, but I do fine with Healthnatura brand K2.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Vit K causes calcium to leave bloodstream, body responds by upping PTH and there, you have your stress reaction.

 

[Amazoniac]

Vit K causes calcium to leave bloodstream, body responds by upping PTH and there, you have your stress reaction.

And with topical application you can possibly sustain this effect since it's a steadier absorption.

 

[raypeatclips]

Vit K causes calcium to leave bloodstream, body responds by upping PTH and there, you have your stress reaction.

Does this study say the opposite, that Vit K doesn't cause a PTH increase?


Comparative effects of vitamin K and vitamin D supplementation on calcium balance in young rats fed normal or low calcium diets. - PubMed - NCBI


J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo). 2005 Aug;51(4):211-5.
Comparative effects of vitamin K and vitamin D supplementation on calcium balance in young rats fed normal or low calcium diets.
Iwamoto J1, Yeh JK, Takeda T, Sato Y.
Author information

Abstract
We examined the effect of vitamin K and vitamin D supplementation on calcium balance in young rats fed a normal or low calcium diet. Eighty female Sprague-Dawley rats, 6 wk of age, were randomized by the stratified weight method into eight groups with 10 rats in each group: 0.5% (normal) or 0.1% (low) calcium diet, 0.5% or 0.1% calcium diet+vitamin K (vitamin K2, menatetrenone, 30 mg/100 g, food intake), 0.5% or 0.1% calcium diet+vitamin D (25 microg/100 g, food intake), and 0.5% or 0.1% calcium diet+vitamin K+vitamin D. The duration of the study was 10 wk. Vitamin K supplementation promoted the reduction in urinary calcium excretion and retarded the abnormal elevation of serum PTH level in rats fed a low calcium diet, and stimulated intestinal calcium absorption in rats fed a normal calcium diet. Vitamin D supplementation stimulated intestinal calcium absorption with prevention of the abnormal elevation of serum PTH levels and prevented hypocalcemia in rats fed a low calcium diet, and stimulated intestinal calcium absorption in rats fed a normal calcium diet. The stimulation of intestinal calcium absorption was associated with increased serum 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D levels. An additive effect of vitamin K and vitamin D on intestinal calcium absorption was found only in rats fed a normal calcium diet. This study shows the differential effects of vitamin K and vitamin D supplementation on calcium balance in young rats fed a normal or low calcium diet.

 

[Frankdee20]

Vit K causes calcium to leave bloodstream, body responds by upping PTH and there, you have your stress reaction.

So the questions then are :

does one take the K infrequently, knowing the ends (assimilating Calcium where it belongs) justify the temporary unease?

Or just take Vitamin D and have Calcium potentially end up in soft tissues ?

Does increasing D3 help eventually shut off Parathyroid hormone so taking K becomes easier down the stretch ?

 

[Frankdee20]

And thank you to anyone who can chime in on those questions.

 

[raypeatclips]

Vit D lowers PTH, Peat has said this before.

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

"Parathyroid Hormone (PTH)
High parathyroid hormone will increase calcium and lower phosphate. I regularly use at least two quarts of milk per day, in the past I have averaged a gallon a day, high calcium intake helps to compensate for low vitamin D, but both vitamin D and calcium in the diet tend to lower parathyroid hormone, and the serum calcium level. Quite a few people are now recommending from 2000 to 6000 i.u. of vitamin D3 daily during the winter.

If your vitamin D was very low for a long time, I think your parathyroid glands probably enlarged, and might take some time to normalize under the influence of a generous amount of vitamin D and calcium."

 

[raypeatclips]

Also I am not convinced that PTH is anything to do with Vit K uneasiness.

Did you see my post above? As I have said, myself, Peat and many other have experienced negative reactions to taking vit K internally. Try K topically and see if you feel the same.

 

[Frankdee20]

Also I am not convinced that PTH is anything to do with Vit K uneasiness.

Did you see my post above? As I have said, myself, Peat and many other have experienced negative reactions to taking vit K internally. Try K topically and see if you feel the same.

Thanks, I mean it's in Oil form anyway, so I'll try it. Idk, I could just get a refund but I think Vitamin K serves a good purpose. Hate to do that.

 

[Frankdee20]

I seem to respond badly to the LE super K, but I do fine with Healthnatura brand K2.

Yeah, the LE brand has generous K1, K2, and MK 7. It could just be one of those throwing me off.

 

[kiran]

Yeah, the LE brand has generous K1, K2, and MK 7. It could just be one of those throwing me off.

It might be the MK4, I respond badly to thorne mk4 as well.

 

[raypeatclips]

It might be the MK4, I respond badly to thorne mk4 as well.

Topically as well as orally?

 

[kiran]

Topically as well as orally?

Surprisingly yes. I got a headache from using it topically, but not from the healthnatura stuff. Fair disclosure: The thorne stuff is a little older.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Does this study say the opposite, that Vit K doesn't cause a PTH increase?


Comparative effects of vitamin K and vitamin D supplementation on calcium balance in young rats fed normal or low calcium diets. - PubMed - NCBI


J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo). 2005 Aug;51(4):211-5.
Comparative effects of vitamin K and vitamin D supplementation on calcium balance in young rats fed normal or low calcium diets.
Iwamoto J1, Yeh JK, Takeda T, Sato Y.
Author information

Abstract
We examined the effect of vitamin K and vitamin D supplementation on calcium balance in young rats fed a normal or low calcium diet. Eighty female Sprague-Dawley rats, 6 wk of age, were randomized by the stratified weight method into eight groups with 10 rats in each group: 0.5% (normal) or 0.1% (low) calcium diet, 0.5% or 0.1% calcium diet+vitamin K (vitamin K2, menatetrenone, 30 mg/100 g, food intake), 0.5% or 0.1% calcium diet+vitamin D (25 microg/100 g, food intake), and 0.5% or 0.1% calcium diet+vitamin K+vitamin D. The duration of the study was 10 wk. Vitamin K supplementation promoted the reduction in urinary calcium excretion and retarded the abnormal elevation of serum PTH level in rats fed a low calcium diet, and stimulated intestinal calcium absorption in rats fed a normal calcium diet. Vitamin D supplementation stimulated intestinal calcium absorption with prevention of the abnormal elevation of serum PTH levels and prevented hypocalcemia in rats fed a low calcium diet, and stimulated intestinal calcium absorption in rats fed a normal calcium diet. The stimulation of intestinal calcium absorption was associated with increased serum 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D levels. An additive effect of vitamin K and vitamin D on intestinal calcium absorption was found only in rats fed a normal calcium diet. This study shows the differential effects of vitamin K and vitamin D supplementation on calcium balance in young rats fed a normal or low calcium diet.

Good study. Maybe I was wrong. However personal experience is that vit K increases calcium requirements at least at the beginning. Longer timescale may be different, or it might have been me. I had to take calcium to sleep after I first started taking vit K.

 

[Frankdee20]

Took the K orally again yesterday, along with D, and no issues reported. No brain fog, strange pains, insomnia, etc. Happy to be able to use it, seemed to help the dark spots under my eyes.