Vitamin E and the Shutes

fabiomln

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First, sorry for my english, but I am Italian.

I have a question. Do someone knows how died Wilfried and Evan Shute (the fathers of vit E)?

The reason of my question is that they died at 75 and 73. So they didn't live very long.
I guess they used a lot o vitamin E, that I think it is one of the most important vitamin (and surely Peat too thinks it is important).
So it should be interesting to know if they died, for example, for accidental cause.

Other persons that believed in other vitamins, like Pauling, Hoffer, R.J. Williams Szent-Gyorgi lived quite a lot, often more than 90 years.

thanks for the answers

fabio
 

4peatssake

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fabiomln said:
First, sorry for my english, but I am Italian.

I have a question. Do someone knows how died Wilfried and Evan Shute (the fathers of vit E)?

The reason of my question is that they died at 75 and 73. So they didn't live very long.
I guess they used a lot o vitamin E, that I think it is one of the most important vitamin (and surely Peat too thinks it is important).
So it should be interesting to know if they died, for example, for accidental cause.

Other persons that believed in other vitamins, like Pauling, Hoffer, R.J. Williams Szent-Gyorgi lived quite a lot, often more than 90 years.

thanks for the answers

fabio
Hi fabio,

I've moved this interesting topic over to the section of the forum called, "Health Topics Not Directly Related to Ray Peat."

It appears that both brothers, ironically, developed serious heart disease which led to their deaths.

World famous Dr Wilfred Shute of Canada claimed to have successfully treated thousands of cases of circulatory diseases with the therapeutic use of Vitamin E. Dr Shute produced proof in the form of photographs that Vitamin E can improve oxygen transport in a poor bloodstream and so assist healing. Notwithstanding, his brother Dr Evan Shute died of heart disease and Dr Wilfred Shute himself had developed serious heart disease. At the same time he continued to lecture that diet was unimportant in heart disease providing adequate Vitamin E was taken. In 1981, Dr Shute underwent open heart surgery for a coronary bypass, but died shortly afterwards. Source

I am not convinced, however, that their deaths have significant bearing on their enormous contribution and discoveries on the benefit of Vitamin E, although we absolutely know how critical diet is for good health. It appears they had discovered an important piece of a pretty big puzzle. The protective benefits of Vitamin E have been clearly confirmed by the same "authorities" that dismissed the Shute brothers findings and marginalized their work for some 50 years.

RayPeat said:
Vitamin E was advocated as an effective treatment for heart disease by Dr. Evan Shute of London, Ontario more than 50 years ago. His pioneering claims, which were unacceptable to the medical community at large, have been confirmed by recent findings from epidemiologic studies and clinical trials."

Ray further says in this same article on Vitamin E. http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/vitamin-e.shtml

Ray Peat said:
In 1933 the physician R.J. Shute was aware of the problems associated with toxemia of pregnancy or preeclampsia. Especially among poorly nourished women, many pregnancies were complicated by circulatory problems, including cyclic bleeding, thrombosis, stroke, and hypertension, and these difficult pregnancies often ended in miscarriage or premature delivery, resulting in many serious health problems among the babies that survived.

At that time, both estrogen and vitamin E were being widely studied, though the exact structure of the tocopherol molecule wasn't defined until 1936-37. Vitamin E had been found to improve fertility of both male and female animals, and to prevent intrauterine death of the embryo or fetus, so it was called the "antisterility vitamin." Using it to prevent women from having miscarriages must have occurred to many people.

Animal research in the 1930s was also showing that estrogen had many toxic effects, including causing infertility or intrauterine death, connective tissue abnormalities, and excessive blood clotting. Dr. Shute and his sons, Wilfred and Evan, were among those who considered vitamin E to be an antiestrogen. They found that it was very effective in preventing the clotting diseases of pregnancy.

Other researchers, who knew that progesterone protected against the toxic effects of estrogen, described vitamin E as the "progesterone-sparing agent," since so many of its antiestrogenic effects resembled those of progesterone.

The Shute brothers began using vitamin E to treat circulatory diseases in general, rather than just in pregnant women--blood clots, phlebitis, hypertension, heart disease, and diabetes all responded well to treatment with large doses.

Vitamin E, as its name indicates, was the fifth type of "vitamin" factor to be identified, and it received its name in 1922, even though its chemical structure hadn't been identified. The public quickly understood and accepted that certain substances in food were essential for life and health, so by 1940 practically all physicians were recommending the use of nutritional supplements.

If vitamin E was essential for human health, and achieved at least some of its amazing effects by opposing estrogen, then the synthetic estrogen industry had a problem."





Here's an article by Hoffer in Rense about the Shute Brothers
Hoffer Article in Rense

Here's another article from DoctorYourself.com
The Vitamin E Story
 

Gabriel

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One should not forget that overdosing on alpha-tocopherol over 400IE per day may migitate the beneficial effects of vitamin e (by the depletion of gamma-tocopherol). the shute brothers may have overdosed on alpha-tocopherol. Or did they already know about the gamma/alpha-tocopherol thing back then?
 

jyb

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Gabriel said:
One should not forget that overdosing on alpha-tocopherol over 400IE per day may migitate the beneficial effects of vitamin e (by the depletion of gamma-tocopherol). the shute brothers may have overdosed on alpha-tocopherol. Or did they already know about the gamma/alpha-tocopherol thing back then?

Which is a lot less than what a single capsule of Unique-E contains. So for oral consumption, one has to squeeze out the content and scoop out 1/3 of it max. Topically, much less is absorbed, maybe the content of a whole capsule is enough.
 

Gabriel

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UNIQUE E "High d-gamma tocopherol, with a minimum of 300mg per capsule • 400 I.U. of alpha-tocopherol (268mg) per capsule "

Looks like a gamma/alpha mixture, so taking one a day shouldnt be such a big problem as you dont end up depleting gamma.
 

fabiomln

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It appears that both brothers, ironically, developed serious heart disease which led to their deaths.


Thanks for the answer.
I want to say that I have some books of Wilfried and in this books he, speaking of himself or his brother (I don't remember), he states that he had serious heart problem since his youth and he could have a normal life (also practicing sports at high levels) because he used a lot of vitamin E. So, at least for one of the two brothers, the heart disease was not caused by vitamin E.

My opinion is that vitamin E is very important (but I am not a doctor). But I want to share my experience.
A woman, my friend, has had serious problem for several years. She had suffered from endometriosis for at least 15 years with indescribable pain evary month. She could not have children even if she tried 2 artificial inseminations and spent over 20.000 thousand euros to solve her problems.
I suggested her to try 1000 ui of vitamin E and use progesterone (Peat's). After 2 months her problems had almost gone and the 3rd month she became pregnant. She continued using vit E and progesterone during gestation and she had a beautiful baby-girl (3.5 kg). Now she continue using vit E and she doesn't suffer any more from endometriosis.

This experience just to say why I think vit E is so important but obviously it is always better to go into deep to understand if there are some contraindications.
 

burtlancast

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fabiomln said:
This experience just to say why I think vit E is so important but obviously it is always better to go into deep to understand if there are some contraindications.

The Shute brothers clearly state there's only ONE single contraindication: a rheumatic heart where the heart valves have been damaged during infancy/ adolescence.

These people will NEVER be able to take more than 150 UI/ day ( because the increase in heart muscle strenght will not be supported by the damaged heart valves).

Hoffer's article cited a little above was excellent, but a little too emphatic, as it didn't mention this point, important to make.

One third of normal people taking VIT E at 800 UI/ day or more are subjected to a temporar increase of blood pressure that can be controlled with drugs or natural means ( plants, ...). This will last one moth or two and then recede. (Ray has even explained Vit E will normalise people with high blood pressure in the long run; people with high blood pressure SHOULD take Vit E).

Keep as well in mind Vit E is the only substance on earth able to make heart valves murmurs DISAPPEAR by clearing the cicatricial tissue that obstructs these damaged valves.

:2cents
 

Gabriel

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I don't think that interaction with rheumatic heart disease (RHD) is the cause of deleterious effects in high dose supplementation. RHD has become extremely rare in industrial countries. Working in the field, I have never had a single patient with rheumatic heart disease, but loads and loads of patients with artherosclerotic heart disease (proven by echocardiography and heart catheter).

The trials with high-dose vitmain e (most of them conducted in industrial countries in the last 20 years, a time period of very low RHD incidence) showed that the excess deaths were mainly from an increase in atherosclerosis and non-vascular causes, such as malignancies. I find it hard to explain an increase in artherosclerosis and malignancies as caused by a preexisisting RHD that exacerbated.

I think high dose alpha-tocopherol (regardless if it is synthetic or not) is bad for everyone as it brings your own antioxidant system out of balance. By doing that you may get more prone to infection and inflammation (which can lead to atherosclerosis and/or malignancies). The body is not adapted to be flooded with a single isolated substance in such high doses that are not attainable with a normal diet.
 
J

j.

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Gabriel said:
The body is not adapted to be flooded with a single isolated substance in such high doses that are not attainable with a normal diet.

That seems to contradict Peat's experience with pregnenolone. He took a gram daily without problems.
 

Gabriel

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You can also take a gram of Vitamin E without visible problems. Question is if it is good for you in the long term as development of artherosclerosis, cancer and immune dysregulation are silent and gradual processes that you cannot perceive until you developed them. In that regard I rather trust doses that either are attainable by normal diet or have convincing data from intervention trials (best would be both).
 
J

j.

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Gabriel said:
You can also take a gram of Vitamin E without visible problems. Question is if it is good for you in the long term as development of artherosclerosis, cancer and immune dysregulation are silent and gradual processes that you cannot perceive until you developed them. In that regard I rather trust doses that either are attainable by normal diet or have convincing data from intervention trials (best would be both).

Ok, so basically you're just speculating. Your previous statement sounded a lot more definitive.
 

jyb

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Gabriel said:
You can also take a gram of Vitamin E without visible problems. Question is if it is good for you in the long term as development of artherosclerosis, cancer and immune dysregulation are silent and gradual processes that you cannot perceive until you developed them. In that regard I rather trust doses that either are attainable by normal diet or have convincing data from intervention trials (best would be both).

Depends what you mean by "visible". Can one develop these long term problems while having perfect metabolism indicators (pulse, temperature,... and possibly other hints such as skin appearance and standard bloodwork such as TSH, prolactin, CO2...)?
 

burtlancast

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Gabriel said:
I don't think that interaction with rheumatic heart disease (RHD) is the cause of deleterious effects in high dose supplementation. RHD has become extremely rare in industrial countries. Working in the field, I have never had a single patient with rheumatic heart disease, but loads and loads of patients with artherosclerotic heart disease (proven by echocardiography and heart catheter).
.

I don't get how you can post this and not have read a single Shute's book.

It's as if you're taking the word of the medical orthodoxy (which Ray has thoroughly exposed as a patented fraud) over the Shute's, the only researchers who have assembled reliable data for high dosage treatment of more than 30000 patients over the course of 40 years.

If you need to understand why a rheumatic heart won't stand dosage above 150 UI, go ahead and read their books, or if you can prove them wrong on this point, let's see your proofs. Don't come here empty handed and contradict their work.

The Medical establishment has systematically refused to undertake high vitamin dosage trials, notably VIT C (for infections, heart disease and cancer) and Niacin (for cholesterol and lipid control, mental diseases).
Never mind high dosage Vit E studies.
The few studies on high Vitamins they have done have been minutiously rigged to show no effects.

The work of pioneers like Abram Hoffer, Hugh Riordan, Fred Klenner, Linus Pauling, has been silenced/ ignored and millions of sufferers have been condemned to die from their degenerative diseases as a result.

The medical establishment is notorious for having falsified decades of studies claiming to prove a low cholesterol can diminish the incidence of heart disease, allowing the pharma compagnies to make a fortune with the dangerous statins , which are precipitating neurodegenerative diseases while offering zero protection vs heart disease.

I suggest it would be time for you to wake up and smell the coffee because you're not changing anyone's opinion by citing these bogus studies.
 

Gabriel

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@j: What I wrote is based on my knowledge on vitamin e trials. They showed that low dose alpha-tocopherol supplementation has some beneficial effects while high dose supplementation either has no effect, or in some studies a deleterious effect on all-cause, cardiovascular or cancer mortality. There are no trials on high quality tocopherol mixtures that I know of that could help answer the question if Vitamin E dose has any thresholds. Until that evidence is there, I personally remain sceptical when people recommend high-dosing something, be it vitamin e, vitamin d or whatever macro/micronutrient there is. So yes, in that sense I am speculating and far from being able to provide any definite claims.

@burtlancast: I acknowledge that randomize trials have their flaws (type of vitamin used, type of dose, type of people etc.), but in my opinion their results outweigh the opinion of single people and should be included in your overall analysis of things. I agree that there are bad things in medicine, just like there are bad things in capitalism, religion, politics or whatever human discipline there is. The cholesterol-diet-heart hypothesis is one of these saddening and frustating stories.

The reason why there are no good vitamin trials is not because of some "systematic fraud" but simply because nobody until now has made the effort to make one. Why didn't the shute brothers ever conduct one? It is not very likely that somebody systematically stopped them doing so. More likely are financial constraints (intervention trials are expensive). Also very likely is that they realized that such a trial poses a risk to their business. Because, what if they show that vitamin E dont work? Certainly this would have hurt their business. Nobody wants to shoot himself in the foot.

Money for trials has to come from somewhere. In most cases comes from a sponsor that hopes to benefit from the trial (drug company for a drug, vitamin company for a vitamin etc.). In other it comes from tax money and there are publically funded trials out there. I agree with you that we are in urgend need of more publically funded low-biased trials that ask the right questions and use the right substances to test these questions.

At last, I think a hateful onesidedness against the medical establishment is not justified and doesn't value the thousands of good doctors, well made studies and beneficial drugs and medical therapies that have been developed in the last 100 years.

PS: Are the shute brothers books available online? didnt find any sources here in europe were I live..
 

Gabriel

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Also I'd like to know whether they followed-up on these 30.000 patients with long-term mortality-results etc. Is there data on that in their books?
 

burtlancast

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Firstly, thank you for confirming your posting in a thread about the Shute's work, which you have no clue of.

Gabriel said:
The reason why there are no good vitamin trials is not because of some "systematic fraud" but simply because nobody until now has made the effort to make one.

The real reason is because medecine is organised as a monopole, and researching non patentable substances is a nonsense for them, even if this means millions have to die from their diseases.
The illegality of this monopole has been demonstrated by an official congress enquiry called "The Fitzerald report" from the justice department of the USA. Even though the report was published, no judicial action was ever taken against the perpetrators.
They continue to act as if laws didn't apply to them, with millions of unecessary deaths and suffering as a result.

You not agreeing with this inescapable reality only confirms you simply havn't done your homework...

...or don't intend to.


Gabriel said:
Why didn't the shute brothers ever conduct one? It is not very likely that somebody systematically stopped them doing so.
Trials are conducted in approved centers, controlled by the medical establishment, which as i explained, refuses to test non patentable substances.

The Shutes don't have the power to dictate to the establishment which substances they need to test.

Gabriel said:
Also very likely is that they realized that such a trial poses a risk to their business. Because, what if they show that vitamin E dont work? Certainly this would have hurt their business. Nobody wants to shoot himself in the foot.

This exemplifies the typical european biais where, A PRIORI, isolated researchers always need to prove their results and their morality , while official medecine always embodies unquestionable integrity and high reliability.

Over there, students enter medical studies as they would priesthood.

Gabriel said:
At last, I think a hateful one sidedness against the medical establishment is not justified and doesn't value the thousands of good doctors, well made studies and beneficial drugs and medical therapies that have been developed in the last 100 years.

All thousands well made studies and thousands of good doctors aren't worth the sacrifice of a single person who died poisonned by bogus medication whose safety and efficiency was fabricated out of thin air by the medical mafia.

If you believe otherwise, then perhaps it is you who needs to re evaluate your (lack of) morality.

Gabriel said:
PS: Are the shute brothers books available online? didnt find any sources here in europe were I live..
Your'e lucky.
Shute's books are available online.
(Try abebooks.)




But not for free.
 
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