Vitamin E advice needed

[Nick Ireland]

Hello all

Over ten years ago my father (now 70) had open heart surgery for a defective valve. Every since he has been on a drug called Clopidogrel which I believe is some sort of tweaked aspirin?

My father is pro Peat now and his use of progesterone has yielded great results in less than two months. However, he is very reluctant to take natural vitamin E in the belief it may cause bruising and bleeding combined with the Clopidogrel. I asked him to talk with his doc and see if the latter can't be dropped in favour of a short E trial, but perhsps his doc knows less about the remarkable effects of this vitamin a la Peat.

Can I ask forum members if they have Ray quotes or commentary relative to this situation. I myself am now using natural mixed tocopherols to great effect in combo with D, K and A.

Thanks!

 

[Nick Ireland]

Just to clarify, I believe my father's daily dietary intake of E to be no more than 15iu and I think at his age that 200iu of E is a crucial supplementary addition.

 

[Strongbad]

It's a requirement to take vitamin K2 if your father takes vitamin E. Vitamin E increases the absorption of vitamin A but depletes vitamin K2 in the process. Vitamin E functions like blood thinner, and vitamin K2 counters that (for balance). Make sure to take vitamin K2 on different time of the day than vitamin E. They can't be taken simultaneously. Vitamin K2 can be found on eggs, especially duck eggs, most organ meat (heart, tripe, shank) except liver.

 

[janus]

Make sure to take vitamin K2 on different time of the day than vitamin E. They can't be taken simultaneously.

You say this so definitively...

 

[tara]

Make sure to take vitamin K2 on different time of the day than vitamin E. They can't be taken simultaneously.

You say this so definitively...

I think Haidut has said taking the separately is only important for high doses of either K2 or E (IIRC, because at high doses they share/compete for resources for absorption and use). At lowish doses, such as in his estroban ADEK product, that should theoretically not be an issue?

 

[haidut]

Make sure to take vitamin K2 on different time of the day than vitamin E. They can't be taken simultaneously.

You say this so definitively...

I think Haidut has said taking the separately is only important for high doses of either K2 or E (IIRC, because at high doses they share/compete for resources for absorption and use). At lowish doses, such as in his estroban ADEK product, that should theoretically not be an issue?

That would be my take on it. The studies in rats showing that vitamin E lowered vitamin K2 in liver and brain, the doses of vitamin E used were equivalent to 2g+ for a human daily. I know some people on the forum do take such amounts, mostly to lower estrogen, but for most people daily intake of vitamin E will never get that high. Hence, the reason for the dosages in EstroBan.
Taking 200 IU of vitamin E like you suggest, is probably perfectly fine on its own in cases like your father. The thing that worries me is the clopidrogel. I don't know what interaction the two drugs will have and vitamin E could in theory exacerbate the bleeding risk even at doses of 200 IU. So, definitely something to ask the cardiologist. If the doctor approves of vitamin E, also ask about vitamin K2. The doctor may frown at vitamin K2 as something that increases the risk of clots but remind the doctor that the MK-4 version of the vitamin does not have hemostatic activity. Google "menatetrenone hemostatic activity" and bring the study to the doctor for review. Vitamin K1 is the one that can give you a clot in high doses.

 

[Nick Ireland]

Guys thanks for all the advice and info - I'm taking my Dad to his cardiologist with some studies in hand - from what I can see, Clopidogrel is a nasty drug that offers no challenge to a combination of existing nutritional therapies. Let's see what the doc has to say....
I know it's Mercasha but some worrying testimony within this article:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... risks.aspx