Vitamin E 100-fold more potent than remdesivir for SARS-CoV-2 / coronaviruses

[Dr. B]

tocopherol is not "vitamin E" ! LOL, sooo many people slander "Vitamin E." You can find the info, it is out there. But let me suggest that added ferrous iron in many fortified foods is capable of redox due to O2 in the air, and..... ferric iron destroys some of the best tocoquinone isomers at ppm levels. It is much the same way as sulfites destroy thiamine.

so thiamine is one of the most important supplements to use?
do you mean only added sulfites or all sulfur foods like even sulfur in eggs, milk, cysteine, and the other sulfur amino acids i think methionine?
what is vitamin E isn't it the 4 tocopherols and 4 tocotrienols?
which foods contain the tocoquinones? whole full fat milk in large amounts?

 

[yerrag]

Sorry guys...here it is

Gamma Tocopherol and Alpha Tocopherol - Life Extension

Unlike alpha tocopherol, gamma tocopherol is a potent defender against disease-provoking compounds in the body known as reactive nitrogen oxides. Gamma tocopherol has been found to reduce inflammation and activate genes involved in protecting against Alzheimer’s disease.

www.lifeextension.com

Thanks. Good reading!

 

[David90]

Nice Finding. Thanks @haidut

Personally. I use 300-450 IU Twice per Week. More or less for the Anti-Estrogenic Effect. But this finding makes me certain, that i will keep Vitamin E as a staple in my Supplements.

 

[Texon]

Big fan of vitamin E but with regards to Remdesivir I believe tap water to be more effective. ?

According to Dr Ardis here in Dallas remdesivir is designed to kill patients via kidney failure and consequent fluid buildup in the lungs aka pneumonia.

 

[yerrag]

According to Dr Ardis here in Dallas remdesivir is designed to kill patients via kidney failure and consequent fluid buildup in the lungs aka pneumonia.

Do you have a link to Dr. Ardis? I have a friend who was hospitalized for COVID. He has recovered but his creatinine is now high. Remdesivir was used.

 

[Texon]

Do you have a link to Dr. Ardis? I have a friend who was hospitalized for COVID. He has recovered but his creatinine is now high. Remdesivir was used.

Yes it is Home.
This is the only link that I know of.

 

[yerrag]

Yes it is Home.
This is the only link that I know of.

Thank you !

 

[Texon]

Thank you !

Welcome!

 

[Lizb]

+1

I have no idea with the Chromebook though... haha.

At the moment, I'm still using Thorne's -- but I'll soon try out the Ultimate Gamma Vitamin E.

And about Policosanols, I'm already taking it when I saw your post about it.
At first I looked for Cholesterol Lowering supps from Examine's Supplement Guide PDF.
And little did I know that it also scrubs out PUFAs, which I saw here in RPF.

I need to know about lowering cholesterol. Can you post link to the PDF you mentioned please?

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

I really am no biochemist so I may have a lot of hot air, but these researchers have often done things not for science but for pharma profits and for corrupted peer reviewers - that I'm always thinking if I should waste my time on whatever studies they present. A lot of times they use ghost writers as well, and each time I read something crappy from them, it takes me away from reading articles that are more helpful and more honest.

How do you find relevant articles? Do you use NCBI or something else?

Health Natura's vitamn E also intrigues me. It lists down all the isomers. Has ample alpha and gamma, and has significant amounts of delta. I haven't gotten much info on delta tocopherol, but it appears it also have similar qualities as the gamma isomer. Still looking for more info on it.

Back to topic, you can also buy HealthNatura's product. While it has less gamma, it makes it up with the delta isomer. If what you're looking for in the Vitamin E is the ability to prevent plaque or to lyse plaque. But I'd add policosanols at the very least to it. It's a little more involved, but if you're interested in it, look at my posts in the Policosanols thread.

I'm interested in what you think about this Ray's email about to me about health natura's product:
"The 45% of nontocopherol material is probably the problem, likely to include rancid soy PUFA."

To use vitamin E for therapeutic purposes, it is difficult. I find it to be so effective in larger doses, but it can be a double-edged sword as in my case a pandora's box of pathogens and toxins and immune responses such as inflammation can be released thst can overwhelm the system.

So you are saying supplementing E [since it can simulate the immune system] can overwhelm the system by killing of pathogens and viruses and increasing the inflammatory responses? How should one approach this issue? I suspect I have great toxic load in my body.

I'm currently using high gamma to lyse plaque composed of foam cells filled wth oxidized ldl. The lysing seemed to have potentiated my immune system's ability to really kill bacteria, instead of it keep on failing to knock out bacteria, with the bacterial colony's evasive maneuvers, which would keep my immune system in an endless loop of failed attempts, leading to high cytokine production and inflammation and chronic oxidative stress.

So using high game would improve immune system to actually kill off the pathogens?

But along with that a lot of debri is released that seems to plug the very small blood vessels - capillaries. So, I would experience a huge drop in blood pressure, then the next day it goes back higher again. It can be very frustrating when I did not understand what was going on. That's why hypertension is very hard to overcome.

That's very interesting since I've developed some aortic calcification + atherosclerosis + myocarditis symptoms by using 1.5g of VIT E health natura + 45mg K2 Mk-4 for almost 2 months.
I've also developed spiking and lowering of my BP - something which never happened before. I think it has to do with hardening of the arteries and blood vessels I'm experiening.

I've removed VIT E, being left with K2 only for the last 10 days and my symptoms worsened and my chest/heart and blood vessels/aorta behind it [ as well as my intestine ] became incredibly stiff.
Do you think it has something to do with your explanation?

VIT K2 MK-4 increased calcification/stiffness?

While VIT K2 MK-4 [45mg] helped me with eczema and psoriasis [which maybe prove that this particular skin issues are tightly related to the blood vessels] it caused me to have symptoms of aortic valve calcification/myocarditis. Really badly. Extreme chest tightening, short cough, shallow...

raypeatforum.com

I have a mind to use high alpha vitamin E because it is also an effective anti-thrombolytic, so that could help clear the capillaries of the debri (although currently I am using potassium citrate to improve the rhiology of blood thru its zeta potential; this may be working as i slept so well last night and instead of 4 wakeups to urinate I only woke up once, which was pretty amazing).

In my carnivore days potassium citrate was THE ONLY thing that relaxed my system.
I've used potassium chloride, all magnesium supplements and nothing worked. Only potassium citrate.

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

Nice find!

Hmm… Vitamin D, Aspirin, Methylene Blue, Glycine, Naringenin and Vitamin E against COVID-19. What else?

Progersterone, famotidine, cyproheptadine.

 

[yerrag]

How do you find relevant articles? Do you use NCBI or something else?

Mostly using researchgate.net

But using search engine that allow to me to use operators to exclude certain terms. And to use " "

Google in its early years allow for the use of such focused searches, but now ignores them.

Google search is dumbed down.

To keep us from doing good relevant searches that yield useful results, and directing us to their own filters that leave us to think all roads lead to pharma answers.

interested in what you think about this Ray's email about to me about health natura's product:
"The 45% of nontocopherol material is probably the problem, likely to include rancid soy PUFA."

Ray has good instincts. If Health Natura can let Ray sample it's product, Ray can give a good assessment of it.

Without that, I may stay clear of Health Natura's product and stick with the high gamma Vitamin E I'm currently using.

Ray once told haidut his Tocovit tasted rancid, and haidut changed his supplier or the process his supplier used. The new version definitely tasted better. I ordered the new one and threw again the previous version.

So you are saying supplementing E [since it can simulate the immune system] can overwhelm the system by killing of pathogens and viruses and increasing the inflammatory responses? How should one approach this issue? I suspect I have great toxic load in my body.

Finding the right dosing of Vitamin E, potentiated by policosanols and cyclodextrins, in order to stimulate and empower macrophages to effectively lyse oxidized cholesterol and foam cells, and dispose of the bacteria hitherto dormant but activated. Finding a good stack to accompany the cleanup so that the immune system can be relieved of the full task of destroying the pathogens, as the process used by the immune system is very stressful and could easily upset the balance of the organism. The stress of healing can itself kill.

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

Finding the right dosing of Vitamin E, potentiated by policosanols and cyclodextrins, in order to stimulate and empower macrophages to effectively lyse oxidized cholesterol and foam cells, and dispose of the bacteria hitherto dormant but activated. Finding a good stack to accompany the cleanup so that the immune system can be relieved of the full task of destroying the pathogens, as the process used by the immune system is very stressful and could easily upset the balance of the organism. The stress of healing can itself kill.

I will read you policosanols article tomorrow. Thank you.

After bad experience with K2 Mk-4 and VIT E I feel like I've developed some plaque/calcification in my arteries and blood vessels. Especially in my chest. Actually I cannot believe I screwed myself this much after only using them for 2 months... Quite unbelievable how bad I feel both mentally and physically, after feeling pretty good just a few months ago.

Would you recommend any article or give any advice on how to approach this issue? You think VIT E can remove plaque from blood vessels? How did I ended up in this situation then? Was it a very high dose [1.5g]?
Too much K2 induced clothing?

Ray has said CO2 baths and magnesium bicarbonate (after i suggested them) could be useful for my condition. Do you have any suggestion?

 

[yerrag]

Would you recommend any article or give any advice on how to approach this issue? You think VIT E can remove plaque from blood vessels? How did I ended up in this situation then? Was it a very high dose [1.5g]?

I really wish I had a guide but everything I know about Vitamin E is from gathering loosely information about it like I would in forming together a jigsaw puzzle. A lot of info from the Schute brothers, as well as from damning articles about synthetic vitamin E from non-mainstream sources (such as Abraham Hoffer). Spurning practically every mainstream article on Vitamin E has also been very helpful, as this has opened my mind to understanding vitamin E in its natural form, complete with its different isomer form. Seeing what it can do and what the synthetic succinate cannot do has gained me a new found respect for the power of this vitamin. Chaining it to a limited role as an antioxidant was the intention of evil pharma so that its whole healing and therapeutic range would be kept unrealized. As anything that enables us to remove the shackles of disease would rob them of a reliable source of revenue.

What Vitamin E were you using? Just simply saying vitamin E means nothing. Perhaps you were using synthetic E. Or you were using a natural d-alpha tocopherol in a solvent of PUFA. abut if you were using a good form of Vitamin E, you were using too much. There are too many variables to consider.

Can you be more specific in describing your use of Vitamin E the two months you mentioned?

 

[yerrag]

So using high game would improve immune system to actually kill off the pathogens?

Evil pharma marginalized the other isomers of natural vitamin E, stating that the only useful isomer is the alpha tocopherol isomer.

Yet, there are many studies out that extol the value of the gamma isomer in its ability to prevent oxidized LDL, and in its ability to remove plaques formed from it.

Ray Peat in a newsletter,forgot which, talked about Vitamin E used with cyclodextrins in enabling macrophages to lyse plaque.

I think that if you can make macrophages work this way, certainly it is helping the immune system do its job.

hat's very interesting since I've developed some aortic calcification + atherosclerosis + myocarditis symptoms by using 1.5g of VIT E health natura + 45mg K2 Mk-4 for almost 2 months.
I've also developed spiking and lowering of my BP - something which never happened before. I think it has to do with hardening of the arteries and blood vessels I'm experiening.

I've removed VIT E, being left with K2 only for the last 10 days and my symptoms worsened and my chest/heart and blood vessels/aorta behind it [ as well as my intestine ] became incredibly stiff.
Do you think it has something to do with your explanation?

Sorry, so the Vitamin E you used was Health Natura.

If it were effective in lysing plaque, taking a lot would be stressful. If there were no bacteria, it would still release a lot of PUFAS and quite possibly trigger a peroxidation chain reaction that would require a strong antioxidant response. If this were sustained, it would be stressful because of the sudden continual deluge.

If there were bacteria released as well, it would raise your systemic level of bacterial infection, create a high fever, and would make your body produce a lot of acids to kill the bacteria. It would put out of kilter the acid-base balance in your body.

Were you able to collect some markers such as bp, heart rate, perfusion index,hrv, temperature, and urine and saliva pH?

Were you able to get a CBC during this time?

If you're not keeping tabs on these markers, you're flying blind.

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

Yet, there are many studies out that extol the value of the gamma isomer in its ability to prevent oxidized LDL, and in its ability to remove plaques formed from it.

Ray Peat in a newsletter,forgot which, talked about Vitamin E used with cyclodextrins in enabling macrophages to lyse plaque.

Very interesting...

If it were effective in lysing plaque, taking a lot would be stressful. If there were no bacteria, it would still release a lot of PUFAS and quite possibly trigger a peroxidation chain reaction that would require a strong antioxidant response. If this were sustained, it would be stressful because of the sudden continual deluge.

To be completely honest my thoughts go into the direction of VIT K2... I think it created a lot of thick blood as well as increased clotting time.
I've developed a lot of superficial thrombophlebitis as well. When I drop VIT E and left with K2 only for the next 10 days my symptoms got even worse.

Ray to all of this has said:
" Cooked greens, milk, cheese, and eggs are very good sources of K. The solvents used to extract vitamin K, for example from natto, often cause problems. The present vitamin K culture is the creation of marketing campaigns, and is causing a lot of harm. "

And he shared different studies in which I think he encourages the usage of K1 specifically.

Spoiler: study 1

Int J Vitam Nutr Res. 1971;41(2):180-8.
The relationship between the storage forms of vitamin K and dietary phylloquinone
in the dog.
Duello TJ, Matschiner JT.

J Nutr. 1998 Feb;128(2):220-3.
Conversion of dietary phylloquinone to tissue menaquinone-4 in rats is not
dependent on gut bacteria.
Davidson RT, Foley AL, Engelke JA, Suttie JW.
Department of Nutritional Sciences, College of Agricultural and Life Sciences,
University of Wisconsin-Madison, Madison, WI 53706, USA.
The ability of male rats to accumulate menaquinone-4 (MK-4) in tissues when fed a
vitamin K-deficient diet supplemented with intraperitoneal phylloquinone (K) as
the sole source of vitamin K for 14 d was assessed. In both conventionally housed
controls and gnotobiotic rats, supplementation with the equivalent of 1500 microg
vitamin K/kg diet increased (P < 0.001) tissue MK-4 concentrations above those of
controls fed a vitamin K-deficient diet. MK-4 concentrations were approximately 5
ng/g (11 pmol/g) in liver, 14 ng/g in heart, 17 ng/g in kidney, 50 ng/g in brain
and 250 ng/g in mandibular salivary glands of gnotobiotic rats. MK-4
concentrations in conventionally housed rats were higher than in gnotobiotic rats
in heart (P < 0.01), brain (P < 0.01) and kidney (P < 0.05) but lower in salivary
gland (P < 0.05). Cultures of a kidney-derived cell line (293) converted K to the
expoxide of MK-4 in a manner that was dependent on both time of incubation and
concentration of vitamin K in the media. A liver-derived cell line (H-35) was
less active in carrying out this conversion. These data offer conclusive proof
that the tissue-specific formation of MK-4 from K is a metabolic transformation
that does not require bacterial transformation to menadione as an intermediate in
the process.

Spoiler: study 2

Calif Med. 1970 Apr;112(4):65-7.
Don't use the wrong vitamin K.
Udall JA.
The emergency use of vitamin K is essentially limited to the reversal of
drug-induced hypoprothrombinemia. In patients with adequate liver function,
phytonadione acts promptly and predictably in this capacity whereas the
derivatives of menadione counteract coumarin drugs only slightly or not at all.
It is dangerous to rely on menadione analogues, and these drugs should be removed
from emergency room drug stores.

Spoiler: study 3

Biomed Res Int. 2015;2015:296721.
Vitamin K1 exerts antiproliferative effects and induces apoptosis in three
differently graded human colon cancer cell lines.
Orlando A(1), Linsalata M(1), Tutino V(2), D'Attoma B(1), Notarnicola M(2), Russo
F(1).
(1)Laboratory of Nutritional Pathophysiology, National Institute for Digestive
Diseases IRCCS "Saverio de Bellis", Castellana Grotte, 70013 Bari, Italy.
(2)Laboratory of Nutritional Biochemistry, National Institute for Digestive
Diseases IRCCS "Saverio de Bellis", Castellana Grotte, 70013 Bari, Italy.
Vitamin K1 has been demonstrated as having anticancer potentiality mainly in
liver cancer cells. Beyond the reported mechanisms of cancer inhibition (cell
cycle arrest and induction of apoptosis), a possible control by vitamin K1 on
molecules affecting cell growth could be hypothesized. In the literature, few (if
any) data are available on its antitumor effects on colon cancer cells.
Therefore, the aims of the study were to investigate in three differently graded
human colon cancer cell lines (Caco-2, HT-29, and SW480) the effects of
increasing concentrations of vitamin K1 (from 10 μM to 200 μM) administered up to
72 h on (1) cell proliferation, (2) apoptosis with the possible involvement of
the MAPK pathway, and (3) polyamine biosynthesis. Vitamin K1 treatment caused a
significant antiproliferative effect and induced apoptosis in all the cell lines,
with the involvement of the MAPK pathway. A concomitant and significant decrease
in the polyamine biosynthesis occurred. This is the first study demonstrating a
significant polyamine decrease in addition to the antiproliferative and
proapoptotic effects following vitamin K1 administration to colon cancer cell
lines. Therapeutically, combinations of vitamin K1 with polyamine inhibitors
and/or analogues may represent a suitable option for chemoprevention and/or
treatment in future strategies for colorectal cancer management.

Spoiler: study 4

Scand J Gastroenterol. 2014 Jun;49(6):715-21.
Vitamin K1 attenuates bile duct ligation-induced liver fibrosis in rats.
Jiao K(1), Sun Q, Chen B, Li S, Lu J.
(1)Department of Laboratory Animal Science, School of Basic Medical Science,
Capital Medical University , Beijing, 100069 , China.
Vitamin K1 is used as a liver protection drug for cholestasis-induced liver
fibrosis in China, but the mechanism of vitamin K1's action in liver fibrosis is
unclear. In this study, a model of liver fibrosis was achieved via bile duct
ligation in rats. The rats were then injected with vitamin K1, and the levels of
serum aspartate aminotransferase, alanine transaminase, total bilirubin and the
fibrotic grade score, collagen content, the expressions of α-smooth muscle actin
(SMA) and cytokeratin 19 (CK19) were measured on day 28 after ligation. The
levels of the biochemical parameters, fibrotic score and collagen content were
significantly reduced by treatment with vitamin K1 in bile duct-ligated rats. In
addition, α-SMA and CK19 expression was significantly reduced by vitamin K1
treatment in bile duct-ligated rats. These results suggested that vitamin K1 may
attenuate liver fibrosis by inhibiting hepatic stellate cell activation in bile
duct-ligated rats.

If there were bacteria released as well, it would raise your systemic level of bacterial infection, create a high fever, and would make your body produce a lot of acids to kill the bacteria. It would put out of kilter the acid-base balance in your body.

I have a higher levels of inflammation all round. Skin issues [eczema, rosacea, psoriasis, white peeling of skin, balanitis ], as well as kidney inflammation and blood vessel, aortic inflammation [feeling of pulsation], had some intestinal bleeding too. Similar to when I was using high IU of D3.

Methylene blue [400mcg] also gives me some nerve pains -maybe some herx reaction.

Is there anything I could do in such situation? I feel like when I eat fats things get more clogged and pressurized so I avoid it for now as much as I can focusing on fruits, honey, some eggs and bread. Also calcium [milk] tends to get things a bit worse for now so I avoid that too.

Were you able to collect some markers such as bp, heart rate, perfusion index,hrv, temperature, and urine and saliva pH?

Were you able to get a CBC during this time?

If you're not keeping tabs on these markers, you're flying blind.

Well... Nothing.
I should get some ultrasound and get some CBC in a next few days since I'm still inflamed so it may still hold some relevance.

Anyway @yerrag thank you so much for responding. You gave me some ideas to explore and some things which I never considered before like the phages and gamma being known to remove and prevent plaques. I will try to get as much information on that in the near future <3

 

[Dr. B]

Very interesting...

To be completely honest my thoughts go into the direction of VIT K2... I think it created a lot of thick blood as well as increased clotting time.
I've developed a lot of superficial thrombophlebitis as well. When I drop VIT E and left with K2 only for the next 10 days my symptoms got even worse.

Ray to all of this has said:
" Cooked greens, milk, cheese, and eggs are very good sources of K. The solvents used to extract vitamin K, for example from natto, often cause problems. The present vitamin K culture is the creation of marketing campaigns, and is causing a lot of harm. "

And he shared different studies in which I think he encourages the usage of K1 specifically.

Spoiler: study 1

Int J Vitam Nutr Res. 1971;41(2):180-8.
The relationship between the storage forms of vitamin K and dietary phylloquinone
in the dog.
Duello TJ, Matschiner JT.

J Nutr. 1998 Feb;128(2):220-3.
Conversion of dietary phylloquinone to tissue menaquinone-4 in rats is not
dependent on gut bacteria.
Davidson RT, Foley AL, Engelke JA, Suttie JW.
Department of Nutritional Sciences, College of Agricultural and Life Sciences,
University of Wisconsin-Madison, Madison, WI 53706, USA.
The ability of male rats to accumulate menaquinone-4 (MK-4) in tissues when fed a
vitamin K-deficient diet supplemented with intraperitoneal phylloquinone (K) as
the sole source of vitamin K for 14 d was assessed. In both conventionally housed
controls and gnotobiotic rats, supplementation with the equivalent of 1500 microg
vitamin K/kg diet increased (P < 0.001) tissue MK-4 concentrations above those of
controls fed a vitamin K-deficient diet. MK-4 concentrations were approximately 5
ng/g (11 pmol/g) in liver, 14 ng/g in heart, 17 ng/g in kidney, 50 ng/g in brain
and 250 ng/g in mandibular salivary glands of gnotobiotic rats. MK-4
concentrations in conventionally housed rats were higher than in gnotobiotic rats
in heart (P < 0.01), brain (P < 0.01) and kidney (P < 0.05) but lower in salivary
gland (P < 0.05). Cultures of a kidney-derived cell line (293) converted K to the
expoxide of MK-4 in a manner that was dependent on both time of incubation and
concentration of vitamin K in the media. A liver-derived cell line (H-35) was
less active in carrying out this conversion. These data offer conclusive proof
that the tissue-specific formation of MK-4 from K is a metabolic transformation
that does not require bacterial transformation to menadione as an intermediate in
the process.

Spoiler: study 2

Calif Med. 1970 Apr;112(4):65-7.
Don't use the wrong vitamin K.
Udall JA.
The emergency use of vitamin K is essentially limited to the reversal of
drug-induced hypoprothrombinemia. In patients with adequate liver function,
phytonadione acts promptly and predictably in this capacity whereas the
derivatives of menadione counteract coumarin drugs only slightly or not at all.
It is dangerous to rely on menadione analogues, and these drugs should be removed
from emergency room drug stores.

Spoiler: study 3

Biomed Res Int. 2015;2015:296721.
Vitamin K1 exerts antiproliferative effects and induces apoptosis in three
differently graded human colon cancer cell lines.
Orlando A(1), Linsalata M(1), Tutino V(2), D'Attoma B(1), Notarnicola M(2), Russo
F(1).
(1)Laboratory of Nutritional Pathophysiology, National Institute for Digestive
Diseases IRCCS "Saverio de Bellis", Castellana Grotte, 70013 Bari, Italy.
(2)Laboratory of Nutritional Biochemistry, National Institute for Digestive
Diseases IRCCS "Saverio de Bellis", Castellana Grotte, 70013 Bari, Italy.
Vitamin K1 has been demonstrated as having anticancer potentiality mainly in
liver cancer cells. Beyond the reported mechanisms of cancer inhibition (cell
cycle arrest and induction of apoptosis), a possible control by vitamin K1 on
molecules affecting cell growth could be hypothesized. In the literature, few (if
any) data are available on its antitumor effects on colon cancer cells.
Therefore, the aims of the study were to investigate in three differently graded
human colon cancer cell lines (Caco-2, HT-29, and SW480) the effects of
increasing concentrations of vitamin K1 (from 10 μM to 200 μM) administered up to
72 h on (1) cell proliferation, (2) apoptosis with the possible involvement of
the MAPK pathway, and (3) polyamine biosynthesis. Vitamin K1 treatment caused a
significant antiproliferative effect and induced apoptosis in all the cell lines,
with the involvement of the MAPK pathway. A concomitant and significant decrease
in the polyamine biosynthesis occurred. This is the first study demonstrating a
significant polyamine decrease in addition to the antiproliferative and
proapoptotic effects following vitamin K1 administration to colon cancer cell
lines. Therapeutically, combinations of vitamin K1 with polyamine inhibitors
and/or analogues may represent a suitable option for chemoprevention and/or
treatment in future strategies for colorectal cancer management.

Spoiler: study 4

Scand J Gastroenterol. 2014 Jun;49(6):715-21.
Vitamin K1 attenuates bile duct ligation-induced liver fibrosis in rats.
Jiao K(1), Sun Q, Chen B, Li S, Lu J.
(1)Department of Laboratory Animal Science, School of Basic Medical Science,
Capital Medical University , Beijing, 100069 , China.
Vitamin K1 is used as a liver protection drug for cholestasis-induced liver
fibrosis in China, but the mechanism of vitamin K1's action in liver fibrosis is
unclear. In this study, a model of liver fibrosis was achieved via bile duct
ligation in rats. The rats were then injected with vitamin K1, and the levels of
serum aspartate aminotransferase, alanine transaminase, total bilirubin and the
fibrotic grade score, collagen content, the expressions of α-smooth muscle actin
(SMA) and cytokeratin 19 (CK19) were measured on day 28 after ligation. The
levels of the biochemical parameters, fibrotic score and collagen content were
significantly reduced by treatment with vitamin K1 in bile duct-ligated rats. In
addition, α-SMA and CK19 expression was significantly reduced by vitamin K1
treatment in bile duct-ligated rats. These results suggested that vitamin K1 may
attenuate liver fibrosis by inhibiting hepatic stellate cell activation in bile
duct-ligated rats.

I have a higher levels of inflammation all round. Skin issues [eczema, rosacea, psoriasis, white peeling of skin, balanitis ], as well as kidney inflammation and blood vessel, aortic inflammation [feeling of pulsation], had some intestinal bleeding too. Similar to when I was using high IU of D3.

Methylene blue [400mcg] also gives me some nerve pains -maybe some herx reaction.

Is there anything I could do in such situation? I feel like when I eat fats things get more clogged and pressurized so I avoid it for now as much as I can focusing on fruits, honey, some eggs and bread. Also calcium [milk] tends to get things a bit worse for now so I avoid that too.


Well... Nothing.
I should get some ultrasound and get some CBC in a next few days since I'm still inflamed so it may still hold some relevance.

Anyway @yerrag thank you so much for responding. You gave me some ideas to explore and some things which I never considered before like the phages and gamma being known to remove and prevent plaques. I will try to get as much information on that in the near future <3

wow thanks for posting vitamin K comments where/when did you get these

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

wow thanks for posting vitamin K comments where/when did you get these

Ray has sent them to me in an email.

 

[InChristAlone]

Very interesting...

To be completely honest my thoughts go into the direction of VIT K2... I think it created a lot of thick blood as well as increased clotting time.
I've developed a lot of superficial thrombophlebitis as well. When I drop VIT E and left with K2 only for the next 10 days my symptoms got even worse.

Ray to all of this has said:
" Cooked greens, milk, cheese, and eggs are very good sources of K. The solvents used to extract vitamin K, for example from natto, often cause problems. The present vitamin K culture is the creation of marketing campaigns, and is causing a lot of harm. "

And he shared different studies in which I think he encourages the usage of K1 specifically.

Spoiler: study 1

Int J Vitam Nutr Res. 1971;41(2):180-8.
The relationship between the storage forms of vitamin K and dietary phylloquinone
in the dog.
Duello TJ, Matschiner JT.

J Nutr. 1998 Feb;128(2):220-3.
Conversion of dietary phylloquinone to tissue menaquinone-4 in rats is not
dependent on gut bacteria.
Davidson RT, Foley AL, Engelke JA, Suttie JW.
Department of Nutritional Sciences, College of Agricultural and Life Sciences,
University of Wisconsin-Madison, Madison, WI 53706, USA.
The ability of male rats to accumulate menaquinone-4 (MK-4) in tissues when fed a
vitamin K-deficient diet supplemented with intraperitoneal phylloquinone (K) as
the sole source of vitamin K for 14 d was assessed. In both conventionally housed
controls and gnotobiotic rats, supplementation with the equivalent of 1500 microg
vitamin K/kg diet increased (P < 0.001) tissue MK-4 concentrations above those of
controls fed a vitamin K-deficient diet. MK-4 concentrations were approximately 5
ng/g (11 pmol/g) in liver, 14 ng/g in heart, 17 ng/g in kidney, 50 ng/g in brain
and 250 ng/g in mandibular salivary glands of gnotobiotic rats. MK-4
concentrations in conventionally housed rats were higher than in gnotobiotic rats
in heart (P < 0.01), brain (P < 0.01) and kidney (P < 0.05) but lower in salivary
gland (P < 0.05). Cultures of a kidney-derived cell line (293) converted K to the
expoxide of MK-4 in a manner that was dependent on both time of incubation and
concentration of vitamin K in the media. A liver-derived cell line (H-35) was
less active in carrying out this conversion. These data offer conclusive proof
that the tissue-specific formation of MK-4 from K is a metabolic transformation
that does not require bacterial transformation to menadione as an intermediate in
the process.

Spoiler: study 2

Calif Med. 1970 Apr;112(4):65-7.
Don't use the wrong vitamin K.
Udall JA.
The emergency use of vitamin K is essentially limited to the reversal of
drug-induced hypoprothrombinemia. In patients with adequate liver function,
phytonadione acts promptly and predictably in this capacity whereas the
derivatives of menadione counteract coumarin drugs only slightly or not at all.
It is dangerous to rely on menadione analogues, and these drugs should be removed
from emergency room drug stores.

Spoiler: study 3

Biomed Res Int. 2015;2015:296721.
Vitamin K1 exerts antiproliferative effects and induces apoptosis in three
differently graded human colon cancer cell lines.
Orlando A(1), Linsalata M(1), Tutino V(2), D'Attoma B(1), Notarnicola M(2), Russo
F(1).
(1)Laboratory of Nutritional Pathophysiology, National Institute for Digestive
Diseases IRCCS "Saverio de Bellis", Castellana Grotte, 70013 Bari, Italy.
(2)Laboratory of Nutritional Biochemistry, National Institute for Digestive
Diseases IRCCS "Saverio de Bellis", Castellana Grotte, 70013 Bari, Italy.
Vitamin K1 has been demonstrated as having anticancer potentiality mainly in
liver cancer cells. Beyond the reported mechanisms of cancer inhibition (cell
cycle arrest and induction of apoptosis), a possible control by vitamin K1 on
molecules affecting cell growth could be hypothesized. In the literature, few (if
any) data are available on its antitumor effects on colon cancer cells.
Therefore, the aims of the study were to investigate in three differently graded
human colon cancer cell lines (Caco-2, HT-29, and SW480) the effects of
increasing concentrations of vitamin K1 (from 10 μM to 200 μM) administered up to
72 h on (1) cell proliferation, (2) apoptosis with the possible involvement of
the MAPK pathway, and (3) polyamine biosynthesis. Vitamin K1 treatment caused a
significant antiproliferative effect and induced apoptosis in all the cell lines,
with the involvement of the MAPK pathway. A concomitant and significant decrease
in the polyamine biosynthesis occurred. This is the first study demonstrating a
significant polyamine decrease in addition to the antiproliferative and
proapoptotic effects following vitamin K1 administration to colon cancer cell
lines. Therapeutically, combinations of vitamin K1 with polyamine inhibitors
and/or analogues may represent a suitable option for chemoprevention and/or
treatment in future strategies for colorectal cancer management.

Spoiler: study 4

Scand J Gastroenterol. 2014 Jun;49(6):715-21.
Vitamin K1 attenuates bile duct ligation-induced liver fibrosis in rats.
Jiao K(1), Sun Q, Chen B, Li S, Lu J.
(1)Department of Laboratory Animal Science, School of Basic Medical Science,
Capital Medical University , Beijing, 100069 , China.
Vitamin K1 is used as a liver protection drug for cholestasis-induced liver
fibrosis in China, but the mechanism of vitamin K1's action in liver fibrosis is
unclear. In this study, a model of liver fibrosis was achieved via bile duct
ligation in rats. The rats were then injected with vitamin K1, and the levels of
serum aspartate aminotransferase, alanine transaminase, total bilirubin and the
fibrotic grade score, collagen content, the expressions of α-smooth muscle actin
(SMA) and cytokeratin 19 (CK19) were measured on day 28 after ligation. The
levels of the biochemical parameters, fibrotic score and collagen content were
significantly reduced by treatment with vitamin K1 in bile duct-ligated rats. In
addition, α-SMA and CK19 expression was significantly reduced by vitamin K1
treatment in bile duct-ligated rats. These results suggested that vitamin K1 may
attenuate liver fibrosis by inhibiting hepatic stellate cell activation in bile
duct-ligated rats.

I have a higher levels of inflammation all round. Skin issues [eczema, rosacea, psoriasis, white peeling of skin, balanitis ], as well as kidney inflammation and blood vessel, aortic inflammation [feeling of pulsation], had some intestinal bleeding too. Similar to when I was using high IU of D3.

Methylene blue [400mcg] also gives me some nerve pains -maybe some herx reaction.

Is there anything I could do in such situation? I feel like when I eat fats things get more clogged and pressurized so I avoid it for now as much as I can focusing on fruits, honey, some eggs and bread. Also calcium [milk] tends to get things a bit worse for now so I avoid that too.


Well... Nothing.
I should get some ultrasound and get some CBC in a next few days since I'm still inflamed so it may still hold some relevance.

Anyway @yerrag thank you so much for responding. You gave me some ideas to explore and some things which I never considered before like the phages and gamma being known to remove and prevent plaques. I will try to get as much information on that in the near future <3

Wow could we make a new thread about this? Many of us have used or are using vitamin K2.

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

Wow could we make a new thread about this? Many of us have used or are using vitamin K2.

Go for it :)