Vitamin D Supplementation Improves Colon Cancer, Does Not Cause Hypercalemia

[Lucas]

I don’t have a good experience whit vitamin D3 supplementation. Taking it 5.000 iu every day, with 5 mg of K2 MK-4 3 times a week, 500 mg of elemental magnesium every day, 10.000 iu of Vitamin A and even whit this I had calcification on my 2 knees, making my legs felling rusty and weak. Interesting that my blood levels are not high, around 50.

Stopping taking the D3 and the day after the calcification is gone and my legs are light and stronger now.

 

[raypeatclips]

I don’t have a good experience whit vitamin D3 supplementation. Taking it 5.000 iu every day, with 5 mg of K2 MK-4 3 times a week, 500 mg of elemental magnesium every day, 10.000 iu of Vitamin A and even whit this I had calcification on my 2 knees, making my legs felling rusty and weak. Interesting that my blood levels are not high, around 50.

Stopping taking the D3 and the day after the calcification is gone and my legs are light and stronger now.

That is 50 Ng/ml right? That seems like the perfect levels which Ray has mentioned many times before, 5000 iu D seems like a very high dose considering your levels, people usually take that much to bring themselves out of a deficiency. Good to know your calcification clears up so fast, and hopefully you can find a way to keep your levels at what they are.

 

[Lucas]

Yes, it is 50 ng/ml. I fell so happy that my legs are strong and light now. Even a varicose surgery I get close to get one think that my rusty and heavy legs come from this!

Someday I searched on the internet about vitamin D3 side effect and found that one of the side effect people had was pain on the joints, and my squats on the gym becomes to fell weak after since starting vitamin D3.

I starting thinking that this rusty legs comes from hypothyroidism, but in reality it comes from the D3.

For natural D3 I will eats 2 eggs yolks each day and sardines 3 times a weak. The sun I get it a little every day, since I go walking to my job.

 

[Collden]

Seems from posts by Suikerbuik and Lucas that you're more likely to have bad effects from Vit D when your levels are already quite high, regardless of other vitamins, 50ng/ml is far from deficient and 256nmol/L is higher than anyone considers ideal.

Perhaps more important than balancing with Vit K/A or magnesium then, is to measure blood levels of Vit D and PTH to confirm that you are deficient to begin with.

I also wonder how much individual variation there is in optimal Vitamin D levels, it seems different ethnic groups have evolved to thrive on different levels of Vitamin D.

 

[HDD]

I think it is individual. Ray Peat said that some people seem to metabolize it faster. There is a study of schizophrenic patients who sat in the sun the same amount of time as their caregivers and the patients blood levels did not increase as much as the caregivers. There are also reports of people taking very high doses for extended periods without negative symptoms.

 

[managing]

Have you had your vitamin D levels tested at all? Tried any K to see if it resolves the issue?

No to testing. Yes to K.

 

[managing]

Where you taking magnesium?

I'm about to make you feel really smart. No, I wasn't. But Dr. Peat said I should. He said that sometimes a magnesium deficiency causes ATP to be wasted. Causing overheating. He didn't mention the Vit D connection per se. But I am not sure I told him about it either.

So, you may have come to it via differnt routes, but you got the same answer as Dr Peat . Its only been a few weeks, but it is certainly helping the overheating problem. I'll give it some more time and try D again.

 

[managing]

Interesting. Glad to get some feedback from someone with experience with D w/o K.


I think this is a good thought. Just from memory, I remember reading magnesium deficiency can be the cause of adverse effects for many supplements. If I get the symptoms @managing did, I’ll add some mag.

The form I have been using is magnesium carbonate reacted with apple cider vinegar to form magnesium acetate. Supposed to be one of the most easily assimilated, but can only be obtained by reacting -carbonate with acetic acid. Other forms of mag will form complex salts. There is probably nothing wrong with this, but it may not be as good. when -carbonate is reacted most of the carbonate should be lost as gas.

 

[raypeatclips]

I think it is individual. Ray Peat said that some people seem to metabolize it faster. There is a study of schizophrenic patients who sat in the sun the same amount of time as their caregivers and the patients blood levels did not increase as much as the caregivers. There are also reports of people taking very high doses for extended periods without negative symptoms.

Fascinating. Can you remember the name of the study at all?

Reminds me of when Ray said people he knew that were "liver avoiders" struggled to raise their levels with massive doses of D until they ate liver, presumably because a deficiency of something was holding down the levels. It's definitely individual and the more things that are going right in the body probably makes it easier to raise D levels.

 

[HDD]

Nord J Psychiatry. 2016;70(4):262-6.
Low levels of vitamin D poorly responsive to daylight exposure in patients with
therapy-resistant schizophrenia.
P A M Bogers J(1), Bostoen T(2), G Broekman T(3).
(1)a Jan P.A.M. Bogers, Mental Health Services Rivierduinen , High Care Clinics ,
Oegstgeest , the Netherlands. (2)b Tijmen Bostoen, Mental Health Services
Rivierduinen , High Care Clinics , Oegstgeest , the Netherlands. (3)c Theo G.
Broekman, Bureau Beta , Nijmegen , the Netherlands.
BACKGROUND: Low vitamin D levels are associated with schizophrenia, but the
possible association between vitamin D levels and illness severity or duration of
exposure to daylight has barely been investigated.
AIMS: To compare vitamin D levels in therapy-refractory severely ill
schizophrenia patients and members of staff. To investigate the influence of
daylight exposure on vitamin D levels in patients.
METHODS: Vitamin D was measured in patients with therapy-resistant schizophrenia
in April, after the winter, and in patients and staff members in June, after an
exceptionally sunny spring. Vitamin D levels in April and June were compared in
patients, and levels in June were compared in patients and staff. The influence
of daylight was taken into account by comparing the time patients spent outdoors
during the day with the recommended minimum time for adequate vitamin D
synthesis, and by comparing time spent outdoors in patients and staff.
RESULTS: Patients had high rates of vitamin D deficiency (79-90%) and lower
levels of vitamin D than staff members (p < 0.001), independent of skin
pigmentation. In patients, vitamin D levels did not normalize, despite the
considerably longer than recommended exposure of the skin to daylight (p < 0.001)
and the longer exposure in patients than in staff members (p = 0.003).
CONCLUSION: The vitamin D deficiency of therapy-resistant schizophrenia patients
is pronounced and cannot be explained by differences in skin pigmentation or by
an inactive, indoor lifestyle on the ward. Even theoretically sufficient exposure
of the patients to daylight did not ameliorate the low vitamin D levels.
CLINICAL IMPLICATIONS: While vitamin D deficiency probably plays a role in
somatic health problems, it may also play a role in schizophrenia. Interestingly,
exposure to daylight during an unusually sunny spring was not sufficient to
correct the vitamin D deficiency seen in the patients. This emphasizes the need
to measure and correct vitamin D levels in these patients.

 

[HDD]

J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2016 Dec 21. pii: S0960-0760(16)30356-9.

Results of daily oral dosing with up to 60,000 international units (iu) of vitamin D3 for 2 to 6 years in 3 adult males.

McCullough P1, Amend J2.

In the 1930's and 1940's, vitamin D was reported to be an effective treatment for a number of diseases, including asthma, psoriasis, rheumatoid arthritis, rickets and tuberculosis. High doses were used, 60,000 to 300,000 IU a day for asthma, and 200,000 to 600,000 IU a day for rheumatoid arthritis. Toxicity from hypercalcemia occurred after prolonged oral dosing with these supraphysiologic doses. Assays for measuring vitamin D in the blood were not available, and blood levels of vitamin D associated with hypercalcemia were unknown. A 2011 report on vitamin D toxicity showed that hypercalcemia resolved when 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25OHD) blood levels dropped below 400ng/ml in 2 patients with blood levels ranging from 645ng/ml to 1220ng/ml after accidental ingestion of massive doses of vitamin D. We now know that vitamin D is made in the skin in amounts ranging up to 25,000 IU a day with exposure to UVB radiation. There is little data on the safety and blood levels of 25OHD and calcium after prolonged daily intake of amounts of vitamin D in this range. In this report, one subject took increasing daily doses of vitamin D3 for 6 years starting in April 2009: 6500 IU for 6 months; increasing to 10,000 IU for 13 months; 20,000 IU for 24 months; 40,000 IU for 12 months; 50,000 IU for 10 months, and 60,000 IU since October 2014. 25OHD blood levels were 28, 81, 204, 216, 225, 166, and 218ng/ml. Subject 2 began 10,000 IU in Nov 2011, increased to 20,000 IU in Feb 2014, 25,000 IU in June 2014, and 30,000 IU in Oct 2014, and then decreased to 20,000 IU in June 2015. 25OHD blood levels were 96.6, 161.1 and 106.9ng/ml. He reported marked clinical improvement in his asthma. Subject 3 started on daily 10,000 IU in Sept 2013, increasing to 20,000 IU on Nov 2013. 25OHD blood levels were 31.4, 102, 164, 148, and 143ng/ml. No one developed hypercalcemia or any adverse events. The major finding of this case series is prolonged daily dosing of vitamin D3 with doses of 10,000 to 60,000 IU was safely tolerated.

 

[HDD]

Calcium is also important, from notes I saved...

Caller: Did you say that you need added calcium for the vitamin D to work better?

RP: You need a good ratio of calcium to phosphate, and I think it's really protective to take in well over a thousand. I try to get about 2,500 mg of calcium per day.

RP: Thyroid works in many ways similarly to vitamin D and regulates calcium and magnesium in particular.

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/vitamin-d-kmud-2016-11-18.13872/


RP: I think the low level of vitamin D and calcium is probably the cause of the sick liver and kidneys rather than being a product. So supplementing just with calcium and vitamin D I think in many cases will correct the whatever the liver and kidney problem is. It isn't a matter of curing the disease. So that they can make or activate vitamin D. It's a matter of getting the vitamin D and calcium into the system, and maybe, you don't need to think about the disease of the kidney and liver as having some other mysterious cause, such as a virus.

 

[raypeatclips]

@HDD thanks, interesting! Those vitamin D numbers are colossal in that second study!

 

[HDD]

@HDD thanks, interesting! Those vitamin D numbers are colossal in that second study!

Yes, and both were sent to me from Ray Peat, so I believe they are “good” studies.

I have high interest in vitamin D since I had a dx of MS and my son was given a dx of Schizophrenia. Low maternal vitamin D has been shown to correlate with schizophrenia in offspring.

 

[inthedark]

The form I have been using is magnesium carbonate reacted with apple cider vinegar to form magnesium acetate. Supposed to be one of the most easily assimilated, but can only be obtained by reacting -carbonate with acetic acid. Other forms of mag will form complex salts. There is probably nothing wrong with this, but it may not be as good. when -carbonate is reacted most of the carbonate should be lost as gas.

I've been using pure magnesium hydroxide powder along with white vinegar to make what I thought was magnesium acetate. You say that mag carbonate should be used to make mag acetate though?

 

[managing]

I've been using pure magnesium hydroxide powder along with white vinegar to make what I thought was magnesium acetate. You say that mag carbonate should be used to make mag acetate though?

I hadn't considered hydroxide. When you react them does it bubble? Hydroxide itself is very compatible with organic acids, but there isn't another carbon source. Its quite possible the hydroxide simply becomes water and oxygen in reaction. If so (ie, if it bubbles) this ought to be fine. The carbonate would convert more efficiently. But you ought to still have primarily the acetate form.

 

[inthedark]

I hadn't considered hydroxide. When you react them does it bubble? Hydroxide itself is very compatible with organic acids, but there isn't another carbon source. Its quite possible the hydroxide simply becomes water and oxygen in reaction. If so (ie, if it bubbles) this ought to be fine. The carbonate would convert more efficiently. But you ought to still have primarily the acetate form.

Thanks! It does bubble but it's a very slow reaction. I add vinegar and wait overnight for the solution to become totally clear. Might have to try carbonate as it sounds like a faster, more convenient way to do it.

 

[managing]

Thanks! It does bubble but it's a very slow reaction. I add vinegar and wait overnight for the solution to become totally clear. Might have to try carbonate as it sounds like a faster, more convenient way to do it.

Yeah. It takes 2-3 minutes for the reaction to complete w/ carbonate. Again, I don't think anything wrong with the hydroxide, or any of the other forms. Just not as fast, complete, etc.

 

[managing]

I can confirm this, when Ray Peat recommended me 5000IU of vitamin D to overcome a deficiency (my vitamin D level was 90 last Aug), he also mentioned magnesium and calcium (2000mg) along with it.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

How did that go for you?

 

[managing]

I've only started it a couple of days ago when I received his email.

Ah! Well then, please update us down the line then.