Vitamin D Lowers Gut Serotonin

[Mateo Wiechers]

Well, constipation is a known symptoms of lowering gut serotonin. Drugs like ondansetron and mianserin are notorious for causing this and they all antagonize the 5-HT3 "receptor". So, it seems that it is working at least as lowering gut serotonin goes, but I guess one needs to be careful with the dose and how long it is taken for. Has Peat mentioned anything on how much vitamin D it is safe to supplement with?

In a KMUD interview he mentioned that up to 10000 IU/Day it's safe. I was was wondering, if vitamin D is also strongly Dopaminergic, would that offset The Increase in Serotonin syntesis and maybe explain it's usefulness in treating Autism?

 

[haidut]

In a KMUD interview he mentioned that up to 10000 IU/Day it's safe. I was was wondering, if vitamin D is also strongly Dopaminergic, would that offset The Increase in Serotonin syntesis and maybe explain it's usefulness in treating Autism?

I don't know if it is dopaminergic but it greatly synergizes with androgens and thyroid hormone. It can actually activate these receptors by itself, considering it is also a steroid. I mentioned some of that in the Calcirol thread.
Calcirol - Liquid Vitamin D3

 

[Beefcake]

The study was on the links between vitamin D, autism, and serotonin and the conclusions are bogus, but some of the findings are useful. If low serotonin was the cause of autism then cyproheptadine would not have been found to be helpful in reducing symptoms in about 60% of patients with autism.
Anyways, long story short - vitamin D appears to be a bit of a double-edged sword, which may explain why it is not a good idea to take it on its own and why many clinical trials using only vitamin D did not get positive results. I have seen studies with high dose (50,000 IU) vitamin D reporting remarkable improvement in patients with IBS, which would be expected given the action of vitamin D described in the latest study.

http://www.childrenshospitaloakland.org ... s/230.aspx

"...In this study, Dr. Patrick and Dr. Ames show that vitamin D hormone activates the gene that makes the enzyme tryptophan hydroxylase 2 (TPH2), that converts the essential amino acid tryptophan, to serotonin in the brain. This suggests that adequate levels of vitamin D may be required to produce serotonin in the brain where it shapes the structure and wiring of the brain, acts as a neurotransmitter, and affects social behavior. They also found evidence that the gene that makes the enzyme tryptophan hydroxylase 1 (TPH1) is inhibited by vitamin D hormone, which subsequently halts the production of serotonin in the gut and other tissues, where when found in excess it promotes inflammation."

Haidut I used to eat sertraline SSRI and although I hated it the first 2-3 weeks after it really helped my mood and motivation. It was like I became a new person life was easy. I knew that SSRI wasn’t really good though so I ended up quiting. Whats very very strange is that I recently been struggling with motivation and a weak depression. I started using 10k-20k vitamin D daily now for a week and it’s like it really jolted my brain. Im much more motivated and feel better. I had the same respons with SSRI even after first dosages but I also had side effects from that like anxiety and sleep trouble. I have to say that high dose vitamin D feels very identical to an SSRI. I feel great but I get bouts of anxiety with a 100% similarity to SSRIs. And I can almost feel that this effect will eventually go away within 2-3 weeks and I will just have the positive effects just like SSRI tends to do. My question is if the anxiety is dopamine and serotonin in the brain and the receptors adjusting. And also the positive benefits experienced from SSRIs after sometime are attributed to increased allopregnenolone production. Do you suspect vitamin D does this same thing aswell? I have even experienced diminished libido right now on vitamin D just like I did on SSRIs. After a month on SSRIs that diminished libido went away and I actually had more libido which I think is rare. But wondering if vitamin D and SSRIs have some sort of same mechanism in the brain. Would be very interested to hear your thoughts and opinions since I know you’re very knowledgeable on the subject of vitamin D.

Adult vitamin D deficiency leads to behavioural and brain neurochemical alterations in C57BL/6J and BALB/c mice. - PubMed - NCBI

This study also says that rats with low vitamin D have more GABA. So could the increase in vitamin D reduce my GABA enough so thats why im getting these anxious bouts? Also says that vitamin D stimulates glutamate.

Interestingly I found this:
SSRIs act as selective brain steroidogenic stimulants (SBSSs) at low doses that are inactive on 5-HT reuptake

Brain principal glutamatergic neurons synthesize 3α-hydroxy-5α-pregnan-20-one (Allo), a neurosteroid that potently, positively, and allosterically modulates GABA action at GABAA receptors. Cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) Allo levels are decreased in patients with posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and major depression.

So glutamate is first excitatory and this then kicks in the allo synthesis which then boosts GABA A. This is why SSRI first makes people jittery and makes anxiety worse then because of the glutamate boost it increases allo synthesis. Vitamin D would do the same probably much safer. Thus vitamin D would be a great stand in for SSRI and people who really are depressed could possibly be vitamin D deficient.

 

[Hildy]

Per vitamin D lowering gut serotonin; Late last year, I ramped up my intake of vitamin D to see if it would reverse the depression I was experiencing and lower gut inflammation. At 15,000 IU daily, along with vitamin K2, my mood and sleep improved, significantly, for two weeks but by the second week I began to develop constipation which didn't resolve until a few days after I stopped D.

Do you have to take vit k2 with increased vitD? I take vitamin k2 but not every day.

 

[Mateo Wiechers]

If Vitamin D is Pro-metabolic, why does It upregulate TPH2 and thus Serotonin syntesis in the Brain? Maybe the study results were altered to favor the supposedly "good" effects of Serotonin on mood?
Any thoughts?

 

[A.R]

Haidut I used to eat sertraline SSRI and although I hated it the first 2-3 weeks after it really helped my mood and motivation. It was like I became a new person life was easy. I knew that SSRI wasn’t really good though so I ended up quiting. Whats very very strange is that I recently been struggling with motivation and a weak depression. I started using 10k-20k vitamin D daily now for a week and it’s like it really jolted my brain. Im much more motivated and feel better. I had the same respons with SSRI even after first dosages but I also had side effects from that like anxiety and sleep trouble. I have to say that high dose vitamin D feels very identical to an SSRI. I feel great but I get bouts of anxiety with a 100% similarity to SSRIs. And I can almost feel that this effect will eventually go away within 2-3 weeks and I will just have the positive effects just like SSRI tends to do. My question is if the anxiety is dopamine and serotonin in the brain and the receptors adjusting. And also the positive benefits experienced from SSRIs after sometime are attributed to increased allopregnenolone production. Do you suspect vitamin D does this same thing aswell? I have even experienced diminished libido right now on vitamin D just like I did on SSRIs. After a month on SSRIs that diminished libido went away and I actually had more libido which I think is rare. But wondering if vitamin D and SSRIs have some sort of same mechanism in the brain. Would be very interested to hear your thoughts and opinions since I know you’re very knowledgeable on the subject of vitamin D.

Adult vitamin D deficiency leads to behavioural and brain neurochemical alterations in C57BL/6J and BALB/c mice. - PubMed - NCBI

This study also says that rats with low vitamin D have more GABA. So could the increase in vitamin D reduce my GABA enough so thats why im getting these anxious bouts? Also says that vitamin D stimulates glutamate.

Interestingly I found this:
SSRIs act as selective brain steroidogenic stimulants (SBSSs) at low doses that are inactive on 5-HT reuptake

Brain principal glutamatergic neurons synthesize 3α-hydroxy-5α-pregnan-20-one (Allo), a neurosteroid that potently, positively, and allosterically modulates GABA action at GABAA receptors. Cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) Allo levels are decreased in patients with posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and major depression.

So glutamate is first excitatory and this then kicks in the allo synthesis which then boosts GABA A. This is why SSRI first makes people jittery and makes anxiety worse then because of the glutamate boost it increases allo synthesis. Vitamin D would do the same probably much safer. Thus vitamin D would be a great stand in for SSRI and people who really are depressed could possibly be vitamin D deficient.

What dose sertraline did you use? Also did you gain any fat as a side effect?

 

[SonOfEurope]

Unless you live north of latitude 55, just get an hour or so or midday sun exposure from April to Sept. In good thyroid that should be enough.