Vitamin D Lowers Gut Serotonin But Increases Brain Serotonin

Discussion in 'D' started by haidut, Feb 28, 2014.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    The study was on the links between vitamin D, autism, and serotonin and the conclusions are bogus, but some of the findings are useful. If low serotonin was the cause of autism then cyproheptadine would not have been found to be helpful in reducing symptoms in about 60% of patients with autism.
    Anyways, long story short - vitamin D appears to be a bit of a double-edged sword, which may explain why it is not a good idea to take it on its own and why many clinical trials using only vitamin D did not get positive results. I have seen studies with high dose (50,000 IU) vitamin D reporting remarkable improvement in patients with IBS, which would be expected given the action of vitamin D described in the latest study.

    http://www.childrenshospitaloakland.org ... s/230.aspx

    "...In this study, Dr. Patrick and Dr. Ames show that vitamin D hormone activates the gene that makes the enzyme tryptophan hydroxylase 2 (TPH2), that converts the essential amino acid tryptophan, to serotonin in the brain. This suggests that adequate levels of vitamin D may be required to produce serotonin in the brain where it shapes the structure and wiring of the brain, acts as a neurotransmitter, and affects social behavior. They also found evidence that the gene that makes the enzyme tryptophan hydroxylase 1 (TPH1) is inhibited by vitamin D hormone, which subsequently halts the production of serotonin in the gut and other tissues, where when found in excess it promotes inflammation."
     
  2. j.

    j. Guest

    I get a lift in mood when I increase my vit D level through sunlight, different than the one I get from incandescent lights.
     
  3. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Going to make sure to get a lot of natural sunlight this spring and summer. It raises the metabolism at an incredible rate. I imagine the vitamin D from the sun is helping immensely.
     
  4. BingDing

    BingDing Member

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    Bump. Wouldn't low tryptophan levels in the brain mitigate high vitamin D while getting the benefit of high vitamin D in the gut? Minimizing tryptophan in the brain by diet is pretty straightforward. Seems like another good reason to drink milk!
     
  5. kineticz

    kineticz Member

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    Vit D is awkward for me. Sometimes it greatly lifts my mood. Other times it makes me feel bogged down. Supplemental Vit D does not agree with me at all. Vit D from sunbeds does.
     
  6. bipolarguy

    bipolarguy Member

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    Per vitamin D lowering gut serotonin; Late last year, I ramped up my intake of vitamin D to see if it would reverse the depression I was experiencing and lower gut inflammation. At 15,000 IU daily, along with vitamin K2, my mood and sleep improved, significantly, for two weeks but by the second week I began to develop constipation which didn't resolve until a few days after I stopped D.
     
  7. Velve921

    Velve921 Member

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    Over the past 2 years, my vitamin D levels drop in the winter to 25-35. However, once supplementing Vitamin D 1,000-2,000 IUS a day I start having sleep issues. Last year my levels jumped upto 176 in 1 month; I've been supplementing Vitamin D for 2 weeks now and sleep issues have come back. Could there be a chance that Vitamin D status could be a little overrated? As stated in Haidut's article, effect on brain can undesirable?
     
  8. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Well, constipation is a known symptoms of lowering gut serotonin. Drugs like ondansetron and mianserin are notorious for causing this and they all antagonize the 5-HT3 "receptor". So, it seems that it is working at least as lowering gut serotonin goes, but I guess one needs to be careful with the dose and how long it is taken for. Has Peat mentioned anything on how much vitamin D it is safe to supplement with?
     
  9. thegiantess

    thegiantess Member

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    176?!!!
     
  10. Velve921

    Velve921 Member

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    Yes last year my levels sky rocketed! Interesting observation, coincidentally during the same time I came across a study that discussed Calcium and Phosphorus having a large effect on Vitamin D absorption. Around the same time of supplementation I finally got my ca:p ratio at 1:1. Years before when my diet is high in phosphorus my vitamin D levels would never get above 50. I need to learn more about vitamin D; so far I have not met anyone that discusses any differences when regarding vitamin D. Of course people claim sunlight in the summer completely changes their mood and they attribute the change to vitamin D. I feel there are so many other factors during summer time that increases well being aside from just sunlight. Thoughts?
     
  11. zooma

    zooma Member

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    I don't think he has strong opinions on it, one time when someone asked him he referred to an institution called something like the 'vitamin D council', and their recommendations of 2000-3000IU/day.

    Also he mentioned around 50ng/ml as a good blood level to aim for.
     
  12. HDD

    HDD Member

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    Recent email responses from Ray Peat regarding vitamin D:

    "People who are hypothyroid usually don’t have enough skin exposure to sunlight, and are likely to become very deficient in vitamin D, and that is often responsible for neurological symptoms."

    "Has his serum vitamin D ever been measured? A vitamin D deficiency, especially with low calcium in the diet, can cause serious mood problems. Keeping the phosphate/calcium ratio low can help."
     
  13. thegiantess

    thegiantess Member

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    I think a lot of things are happening in summer that make one feel better/happier. The days are longer so there is a perception that there is more time to do things, warm weather allows for more time outdoors and nature is known to improve well-being, a lot of vegetables and fruits are in their peak so one could argue that nutrition is better. I think all of those things come into play, but I also think at the center of those things is the super awesome sun. Personally, if I'm cooped up in the house for more than a day or two I get testy. I thrive when I have daily exposure to fresh air and sunshine.

    I simply cannot believe that vit d level. That's just bananas. I imagine a level that high is toxic, although I have no source to back that up. Are you familiar with Chris Masterjohn? I think he writes a fair amount about D.
     
  14. whit

    whit Member

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    Yea, theres so much more to sunlight than just Vit.D
    It sulfates D to make it water soluble and thus greater usefullness is displayed throughout the organism.
    But we are solar powered beings. Everthing we consume has been effected by sunlight at some point and lends that effect to us.
    Dr. Stephanie Seneff has done some very intersting research in this area.
    Dr. M. Holick has got some D research as well.

    The studies on vitK2 show how it works with all the fat soluble vitamins and the proteins they activate.
    I believe this is one of the reasons for the diversity of the
    Vit.D studies. There's multiple factors at work.
    The sun is the catalyst.
    I say shine on.
     
  15. Ulla

    Ulla Member

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    My story these days. I increased Thorne's vit K2 + vit D and here it is... Constipation.
    I sleep better these days but it doesn't help to my mood if I feel very constipated and I eat enough. Actually I had been eating the same food for few weeks now but just last days I increased vit D (via supplement and more mushrooms) and I just don't go...

    I don't wanna screw up again with supplementing vitamis...for eg. Magnesium,
    So I wanna check if anyone here has a suggestion of Mg dosage for another day or two...
     
  16. whit

    whit Member

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    What form of mag. are you taking?
    Peat mentions greens steamed or boiled for mag/cal supplementation. I like kale or spinach.
    The steeped water can have a good amount of both.
    As for supps. we use mag chloride in drinking water or diluted on the skin.
    Not everyone likes the skin effect. If it's full strength it can feel itchy. Thats why dilution is necessary.
    You could also do an epsom salt soak. If you've got a decent tub. If not a foot bath can do the trick.
    Increasing fat consumption can help for some by increasing bile production.
     
  17. Ulla

    Ulla Member

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    I am using Doctor's Best, High Absorption Magnesium, 100% Chelated, and after dinner I also took 1 ml of Trace Minerals Research, Mega-Mag, Natural Ionic Magnesium with Trace Minerals.

    A few hours ago I cooked a spinach and blended it very good. I ate prunes too...
    This constipated situation is so unusual for me, especially happening these days because last three days I was walking a lot, was active and not that sedentary but I have still felt full.
    It seemed weird to me and started to thinking what have I changed in my diet. It came to me: Nothing except supplements.

    My main change was the raise in vit K (I have the one with D vit so I guessed I overconsumed vit D with it).
    I had noticed my 6th tooth stop hurting me and I had figured it out "hey,lets take some more vit k". So I did.

    Usually I take 400 mg of Mg but lately I was lazy and forgot to take it... so everything had made sense when I read about too much vit D causes constipation via Ca: Mg realetionship...
     
  18. whit

    whit Member

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    The thing I've found out about mag is when you get enough you'll know.
    There's some good research out there. Peat says coffee is a good source.
    B vitamins are important to liver health too.

    I've found some research online I'll share it with you if you want?
    Most of it is interviews with the researchers.
     
  19. Ulla

    Ulla Member

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    Of course. Do share :)
    I drank so much coffee past three days but nothing moved. I drink coffee a lot. I was also craving cocoa powder a lot lately. It is all logical now.
    I wish I would knew before that too much vit D does all that. I would figure it out sooner with all that cocoa powder,coffee cravings...

    In last three or four days I consumed sth like 5.000 IU each day. Twice I put some Thorne on my skin and on top of that ate more white button mushrooms and enjoyed a lot of sun outdoor :)
     
  20. whit

    whit Member

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    Here's a piece of an interview on u tube.

    There's a few others. I'll need to locate the links.
     
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