Vitamin C May Treat Cancer

[Wilfrid]

Thanks for the answer, haidut.

 

[Wilfrid]

Based on Dr. Drisko's bio and research I suspect that the study was done as combination of chemo and vitamin C simply because otherwise it would not have gotten funding or approval had it been vitamin C only. It is actually a common trick used by biochemist who want to test a new/experimental substance - i.e. do a trial with the new substance combined with established treatment and if the new substance shows additive effects with the established treatment then argue for a separate trial. Been there, done that

Ok, I didn't know that

 

[himsahimsa]

Absorption of iron is only an issue if you eat foods containing a lot of iron with the vitamin C. Iron doesn't appear out of nowhere, it's an element.

 

[freal]

I wish it was clarified what contaminants are in the vitamin c. If it was lead it seems thats not a problem any more.

I think vitamin c will only be a problem if it was eaten with a meal. I think citric acid does the same, even if its natural like in orange juice.

This information about the oxidized form of ascorbic acid being sufficient for vitamin C requirements is coming only from Ray Peat. There are no analyses of that form in food available.
What we have are the Vilhjalmur Stefansson observations about the Eskimo diet, that lead him to believe that raw but not cooked meat has enough vitamin c to treat scurvy. But analyses show that is questionable. But Ray Peat explanation would really put that into new light.

I think that oxidized form will not have the antioxidant effect.

 

[Wilfrid]

Some folks believe Vitamin C "cures" cancer taking 5000mg of vitamin C everyday and think that's going to help.

This is where, I think, vitamin C' s problem arises.
I think a lot of testimonials ,regarding vitamin C activity against cancer, are legit but for another part of the population those statements are unfortunately not valid.

In their book on vitamin C, Kucharski and Zajac made a good summary on that subject.
In particular, the chapter 2 is very interesting:

"Human specific vitamin C metabolism and xenobiotic polymorphism: the optimal nutrition"

The heterogeneity's factor, the most important part, within studied populations towards vitamin C requirement and antioxidant's activity are often not mentioned, unfortunately.

http://lib.freescienceengineering.org/v ... id=1124622

 

[Giraffe]

post 37689 A while back I listened to a Peat interview in which he discussed Vitamin C.
I believe it was a KMUD interview.
Peat strongly advised against taking supplemental C.
I can't recall exactly what he said,
but I believe he said doing so resulted in a huge amount of iron absorbed into the organism.
And I don't think Peat said it was because the supplements necessarily contained iron themselves.
It was because of a reaction of the C with...can't recall.

It might have been this interview: 2012-10-19 Antioxidants - Andrew Murray + Ray Peat.

The part about vitamin C starts at around the 20 minutes mark. A transcription of that part is posted here post 92653.

 

[narouz]

post 110276

post 37689 A while back I listened to a Peat interview in which he discussed Vitamin C.
I believe it was a KMUD interview.
Peat strongly advised against taking supplemental C.
I can't recall exactly what he said,
but I believe he said doing so resulted in a huge amount of iron absorbed into the organism.
And I don't think Peat said it was because the supplements necessarily contained iron themselves.
It was because of a reaction of the C with...can't recall.

It might have been this interview: 2012-10-19 Antioxidants - Andrew Murray + Ray Peat.

The part about vitamin C starts at around the 20 minutes mark. A transcription of that part is posted here post 92653.

Yes, Giraffe, I remember that.
I once tried, here on the forum, to relate the same info from Peat and
like you
I was all fuzzy about how exactly Peat explained the iron connection.

So I went back to the interview--this was about a year ago--
and relistened
and got it exactly straight.
I meant to post that clarification at that point, but never got around to it.
Now...I'm all blurry about it again!

Seems to me that, maybe, it wasn't as simple as the supplement being contaminated with iron.
It might've been something like the form of the vitamin C,
when ingested and metabolized,
had the effect of releasing iron already in the body--maybe in a safer form before,
and then turning it into a dangerous form.
I confused the hell out of me,
but I think I finally got it straight.
Only to have it recede now into the mists....

 

[haidut]

post 110298

post 110276

post 37689 A while back I listened to a Peat interview in which he discussed Vitamin C.
I believe it was a KMUD interview.
Peat strongly advised against taking supplemental C.
I can't recall exactly what he said,
but I believe he said doing so resulted in a huge amount of iron absorbed into the organism.
And I don't think Peat said it was because the supplements necessarily contained iron themselves.
It was because of a reaction of the C with...can't recall.

It might have been this interview: 2012-10-19 Antioxidants - Andrew Murray + Ray Peat.

The part about vitamin C starts at around the 20 minutes mark. A transcription of that part is posted here post 92653.

Yes, Giraffe, I remember that.
I once tried, here on the forum, to relate the same info from Peat and
like you
I was all fuzzy about how exactly Peat explained the iron connection.

So I went back to the interview--this was about a year ago--
and relistened
and got it exactly straight.
I meant to post that clarification at that point, but never got around to it.
Now...I'm all blurry about it again!

Seems to me that, maybe, it wasn't as simple as the supplement being contaminated with iron.
It might've been something like the form of the vitamin C,
when ingested and metabolized,
had the effect of releasing iron already in the body--maybe in a safer form before,
and then turning it into a dangerous form.
I confused the hell out of me,
but I think I finally got it straight.
Only to have it recede now into the mists....

I always thought the dangers of vitamin C are pretty straighforward - 1) it dramatically increases absorption of iron from food and 2) it reduces iron already stored in the body. Vitamin C is a reductant. Reduced iron is what you see on food labels as an additive and it is highly reactive and damaging. I think a popular theory right now even in mainstream medicine is that excessive reduced iron can directly cause Parkinson disease.
Am I missing something?

 

[narouz]

post 110302

post 110298

post 110276

post 37689 A while back I listened to a Peat interview in which he discussed Vitamin C.
I believe it was a KMUD interview.
Peat strongly advised against taking supplemental C.
I can't recall exactly what he said,
but I believe he said doing so resulted in a huge amount of iron absorbed into the organism.
And I don't think Peat said it was because the supplements necessarily contained iron themselves.
It was because of a reaction of the C with...can't recall.

It might have been this interview: 2012-10-19 Antioxidants - Andrew Murray + Ray Peat.

The part about vitamin C starts at around the 20 minutes mark. A transcription of that part is posted here post 92653.

I always thought the dangers of vitamin C are pretty straighforward - 1) it dramatically increases absorption of iron from food and 2) it reduces iron already stored in the body. Vitamin C is a reductant. Reduced iron is what you see on food labels as an additive and it is highly reactive and damaging. I think a popular theory right now even in mainstream medicine is that excessive reduced iron can directly cause Parkinson disease.
Am I missing something?

Only that what is straight-forward for you
is for me
not so much.

I think that was what Peat said, haidut.

 

[Nicholas]

this info. is still fuzzy....when people say "Vitamin C" are they talking about ascorbic acid or are they talking about vitamin C that is in food? If meat and potatoes both have "Vitamin C", then meat dramatically increases its own iron absorption in the body? I think the last quote i heard of Peat regarding vitamin C was this:

"“The antioxidants in our body have to fit together with uric acid which is naturally there, and enzymes which naturally break down free radicals. And if you put things in that don’t fit, apparent antioxidants in a test tube can become a pro-oxidant in a body. Things have to fit together, so that vitamin A and vitamin E are locked together and vitamin E and vit. C locked together, Uric acid and vit.C locked together and the glucose and other sugars have to be streaming through the systems of enzymes turning into carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide has to be flowing out of the cells properly."

from this quote, it appears that Peat is saying only food sources of Vit. C are antioxidants. He seems to imply that supplemental "vitamin C" (there's no specification as to whether it's ascorbic acid or whole-food vitamin C supplement) is pro-oxidant. The studies i have seen are more concerned with the *amount* of supplemental vitamin C (can only assume ascorbic acid) being the factor which causes oxidation and releasing stored iron.

 

[Nicholas]

post 110312 this info. is still fuzzy....when people say "Vitamin C" are they talking about ascorbic acid or are they talking about vitamin C that is in food? If meat and potatoes both have "Vitamin C", then meat dramatically increases its own iron absorption in the body? I think the last quote i heard of Peat regarding vitamin C was this:

"“The antioxidants in our body have to fit together with uric acid which is naturally there, and enzymes which naturally break down free radicals. And if you put things in that don’t fit, apparent antioxidants in a test tube can become a pro-oxidant in a body. Things have to fit together, so that vitamin A and vitamin E are locked together and vitamin E and vit. C locked together, Uric acid and vit.C locked together and the glucose and other sugars have to be streaming through the systems of enzymes turning into carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide has to be flowing out of the cells properly."

from this quote, it appears that Peat is saying only food sources of Vit. C are antioxidants. He seems to imply that supplemental "vitamin C" (there's no specification as to whether it's ascorbic acid or whole-food vitamin C supplement) is pro-oxidant. The studies i have seen are more concerned with the *amount* of supplemental vitamin C (can only assume ascorbic acid) being the factor which causes oxidation and releasing stored iron.

another fuzzy: seeing as a medium turnip has 25mg of Vitamin C, it would not pair with meat?

 

[Nicholas]

ray peat on dietary C: "If fats and starches in the diet are low, the vitamin C content of the diet will generally be around 3000 mg per day. Milk, mushrooms, meats, etc., all provide vitamin C. I don’t know of a food-based vitamin C that doesn’t contain added synthetic ascorbic acid."

If what he's saying is true, the vitamin C content of even a typical moderate fat diet is well above the RDA (not that the RDA really means anything). It makes me question supplemental C, even from whole food forms.

 

[Momado965]

Is this too much heavy metal?

 

[sladerunner69]

I have never noticed much from supplementing vitamin C, and in fact only encounterres digestion issues.

 

[InChristAlone]

Is this too much heavy metal?

I wouldn't use it. I was concerned even with less than 3 ppm heavy metals. Which I did use and noticed benefits from but Ray says it's the contamination that destroys the benefits of taking it.

 

[Parsifal]

Tried so ascorbic acid powder (1000mg) from an allegedly clean UK factory (quite expensive as well) and got sick from it, some kind of herpes as well which I never get in my life. I've read it increases nitric oxide.

 

[Momado965]

I wouldn't use it. I was concerned even with less than 3 ppm heavy metals. Which I did use and noticed benefits from but Ray says it's the contamination that destroys the benefits of taking it.

Seems like I need to ditch the vitamin c.

 

[Milena]

May treat... but not cure.

A friend with breast cancer (who was vehemently alternative) spent a fortune on Vit C cancer treatment; she died after 6 years.

I don't know what my choice would be faced with the same dilema.

 

[Lucenzo01]

Would vitamin C work if applied topically?

 

[Forsythia]

ray peat on dietary C: "If fats and starches in the diet are low, the vitamin C content of the diet will generally be around 3000 mg per day. Milk, mushrooms, meats, etc., all provide vitamin C. I don’t know of a food-based vitamin C that doesn’t contain added synthetic ascorbic acid."

This is confusing. According to cron-o-meter, there is no Vitamin C in milk or mushrooms or meat.