Vitamin B1 (Thiamine) Deficiency: The "Great Imitator" Of Other Illnesses

[not_James_Bond]

So fortified cereals and bread are fat promoting due to synthetic B vitamins being added 70s and 80s, processed food manufacturing seems to have a lot to answer for

 

[Peater]

I was just reading how B vitamins can cause obesity:

Excess vitamin intake: An unrecognized risk factor for obesity

"Core tip: B vitamins are a known fat gain promoting factor. Food fortification-induced high vitamin consumption is followed by a rapid increase in obesity prevalence. Why is the fat gain effect of B vitamins neglected in obesity studies? Why does obesity prevalence vary from country to country? Why are the poor in developed countries but the rich in developing countries at high risk of obesity? Why is obesity prevalence higher in blacks than whites in the United States? Why does formula feeding (which is associated with high energy expenditure) increase the risk for obesity? Why is physical inactivity associated with increased obesity risk? This paper reviews the role of excess vitamins in obesity and proposes a unified answer to these questions."

Are we mocking this or...? I'm confused. Grains are fortified, and they feed those to cows to fatten them up. It's only when humans eat them they magically turn into a 'slimming' healthy food.

 

[redsun]

I was just reading how B vitamins can cause obesity:

Excess vitamin intake: An unrecognized risk factor for obesity

"Core tip: B vitamins are a known fat gain promoting factor. Food fortification-induced high vitamin consumption is followed by a rapid increase in obesity prevalence. Why is the fat gain effect of B vitamins neglected in obesity studies? Why does obesity prevalence vary from country to country? Why are the poor in developed countries but the rich in developing countries at high risk of obesity? Why is obesity prevalence higher in blacks than whites in the United States? Why does formula feeding (which is associated with high energy expenditure) increase the risk for obesity? Why is physical inactivity associated with increased obesity risk? This paper reviews the role of excess vitamins in obesity and proposes a unified answer to these questions."

There is a user here who made a thread where he was basically given a B complex and zinc by a family member and took these daily for 2-3 years and ballooned in weight massively with constant hunger. I gave my explanation in that thread as well on possible mechanism. Though I dont think you can do this from the low amounts of Bs in fortified food.

 

[Peater]

There is a user here who made a thread where he was basically given a B complex and zinc by a family member and took these daily for 2-3 years and ballooned in weight massively with constant hunger. I gave my explanation in that thread as well on possible mechanism. Though I dont think you can do this from the low amounts of Bs in fortified food.

It's real?! Well now I just give up...

 

[redsun]

It's real?! Well now I just give up...

Like I said I highly doubt the B vitamins that grains are fortified with are enough to imitate what happen to this user. But the high dose B complex and zinc supplementation for 3 years causing massive weight gain speaks for itself. So in that way maybe, but from food likely no.

 

[Peater]

Like I said I highly doubt the B vitamins that grains are fortified with are enough to imitate what happen to this user. But the high dose B complex and zinc supplementation for 3 years causing massive weight gain speaks for itself. So in that way maybe, but from food likely no.

Well I can confirm I haven't leaned down like I was hoping a sustained and comprehensive round of B vitamins would achieve. Some in their active form too a per my list.

I am not overweight as such, but have always had a skinnyfat physique despite being active and even when training 4 times a week (Years ago now) never eating soy and being gluten-free. More or less Peaty paleo - so higher carb and not averse to cola. I was hoping the thiamine might be the 'missing link'

 

[RWilly]

There is a user here who made a thread where he was basically given a B complex and zinc by a family member and took these daily for 2-3 years and ballooned in weight massively with constant hunger. I gave my explanation in that thread as well on possible mechanism. Though I dont think you can do this from the low amounts of Bs in fortified food.

Wow! Interesting share.

 

[RWilly]

Are we mocking this or...? I'm confused. Grains are fortified, and they feed those to cows to fatten them up. It's only when humans eat them they magically turn into a 'slimming' healthy food.

According to this obesity article, it doesn't matter the source of B, whether synthetic or from foods.

"The consumption of animal-based foods significantly increased in developed countries in the second half of the last century. Dietary patterns in developing countries have been shifting to a more meat-centric diet over the past few decades[5,35]. Such a nutrition transition has increased the intake of vitamins (especially nicotinamide, a form of niacin) from animal-based foods. For example, United States per capita consumption of total meat showed an increasing trend between the 1930s and 2000 (Figure (Figure1B),1B), which increased the daily intake of meat-derived nicotinamide from 6.8 mg in the 1930s to 11.4 mg in 2000, according to the data on meat contribution to daily niacin intake[34]."

and

"Obesity involves an accumulation of excess body fat. Early studies have already demonstrated that B vitamins play a crucial role in fat synthesis and there is a synergistic effect of B vitamins on fat synthesis. Vitamin B1 and B6 are required for the synthesis of fat from carbohydrate and protein[21-23] and their effects on fat synthesis are enhanced by the presence of other B vitamins. Vitamin B6 administered together with B1, B2 and B5 (pantothenic acid) resulted in a significant increase in body fat in rats[22]. Niacin has been found to increase daily feed intake, weight gain and percentage of abdominal fat in chicken when increasing supplementation from 0 to 60 mg nicotinic acid per kilogram diet[24]. It has been found that formula feeding leads to more fat gain, which may account for increased risk of later obesity[81,82]. Considering that formulas contain high levels of B vitamins (Table (Table3)3) that are a known factor increasing fat synthesis, we therefore propose that formula feeding-induced fat gain may be due to excess vitamins. Taken together, existing evidence suggests that excess vitamins, especially B vitamins, may play a role in the development of obesity."

 

[Peater]

Really interesting @RWilly thank you for posting

Vitamin B6 administered together with B1, B2 and B5 (pantothenic acid) resulted in a significant increase in body fat in rats

FML..... my understanding was that B vitamins and thiamine in particular were essential for optimal metabolism and it is better to fuel the metabolism rather the metabolism getting built up first and then crashing.

I have literally no idea now. Maybe I'll just dose one a day over a week.

 

[redsun]

Really interesting @RWilly thank you for posting



FML..... my understanding was that B vitamins and thiamine in particular were essential for optimal metabolism and it is better to fuel the metabolism rather the metabolism getting built up first and then crashing.

I have literally no idea now. Maybe I'll just dose one a day over a week.

You need some but it seems excess B vitamins can promote fat gain in multiple ways.

 

[Peater]

You need some but it seems excess B vitamins can promote fat gain in multiple ways.

Agreed, well at least it's better to know now anyway than be unaware!

 

[milkboi]

I was just reading how B vitamins can cause obesity:

Excess vitamin intake: An unrecognized risk factor for obesity

"Core tip: B vitamins are a known fat gain promoting factor. Food fortification-induced high vitamin consumption is followed by a rapid increase in obesity prevalence. Why is the fat gain effect of B vitamins neglected in obesity studies? Why does obesity prevalence vary from country to country? Why are the poor in developed countries but the rich in developing countries at high risk of obesity? Why is obesity prevalence higher in blacks than whites in the United States? Why does formula feeding (which is associated with high energy expenditure) increase the risk for obesity? Why is physical inactivity associated with increased obesity risk? This paper reviews the role of excess vitamins in obesity and proposes a unified answer to these questions."

It's interesting. I wonder if a single vitamin (let's say B1) can already cause excess lipogenesis or if it's more of a synergy type of thing.

 

[yerrag]

Duplicate

 

[Geronimo]

I think a creatine and taurine deficiency can really mess with people's metabolism. Most people don't consume nearly enough glycine that is necessary to create endogenous creatine. Most meats are cooked and processed into oblivion and lose a lot of their taurine and creatine content. Phosphocreatine is the main system of muscular energy and a huge part of brain energy. Having a good supply of creatine for ATP production should go a long way towards sparing B vitamin usage, right?

 

[TheBeard]

I think a creatine and taurine deficiency can really mess with people's metabolism. Most people don't consume nearly enough glycine that is necessary to create endogenous creatine. Most meats are cooked and processed into oblivion and lose a lot of their taurine and creatine content. Phosphocreatine is the main system of muscular energy and a huge part of brain energy. Having a good supply of creatine for ATP production should go a long way towards sparing B vitamin usage, right?

I feel noticeably better energy-wise when supplementing creatine.
However, I can feel it "flow" through my kidneys, it's quite discomforting and alarming.

 

[Geronimo]

I'd stick with multiple 1 gram doses per day. The creatinine scaling is pretty linear with it, but doesn't last long.

 

[stackz07]

I feel noticeably better energy-wise when supplementing creatine.
However, I can feel it "flow" through my kidneys, it's quite discomforting and alarming.

I've been adding my b's into my half gallon jug of water and sipping that throughout the day. Recently added 1g of taurine to that as well and am thinking about adding a grab of creatine since I'm switching to mainly gelatin as my primary protein (I lift weights and need a good amount of protein). Maybe doing something similar to me would alleviate that kidney feeling.

 

[Peater]

What form of creatine do you guys use?

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

So if someone has Beriberi and then starts taking a vitamin D supplement which causes potassium wasting seems like a recipe for disaster.


I am finding that I can comfortably handle very small doses..... 1mg of TTFD and/or 5mg of HCL at a time. A couple milligrams of Benfo is too much. Anything above that and a stress response ensues.

Dr. Lonsdale feels that there is an epidemic of Beriberi going on and I find myself agreeing with his research. Some of us come into Peating and load up the sugar which then digs the hole deeper on the Beriberi spectrum and bad things start happening. This is why some who go back to low carb find immediate relief due to the strain on Beriberi being lifted. So low carbing is basically a bandaid on the wound caused by Beriberi. But we all know where low carbing will lead us. Just gotta plug up that thiamine deficiency hole which appears to take quite a while and is not a straight shot when having to take in mind other deficiencies and imbalances.

You're on to something with the D vitamin thing. I've discovered my b1 deficiency half a year ago and vitamin D supplements make feel tired, sluggish and depressed - I wonder why...

 

[stackz07]

What form of creatine do you guys use?

200 mesh from nootropicsdepot.com - haven't really used it yet just been sitting here for months.