Vitamin B1 (Thiamine) Deficiency: The "Great Imitator" Of Other Illnesses

[Homo Consumericus]

I have not seen any indication that is a concern for him. He mostly keys on magnesium.

Does he recommend a form? Citrate and oxide reach bowel tolerance quickly. Glycinate and taurate sedate over time. Aspartate is excitotoxic. Chloride applied externally might work. Malate and threonate seem most promising.

 

[charlie]

Does he recommend a form? Citrate and oxide reach bowel tolerance quickly. Glycinate and taurate sedate over time. Aspartate is excitotoxic. Chloride applied externally might work. Malate and threonate seem most promising.

He does but I cannot remember which one. I use magnesium bicarbonate.

 

[Trix]

He does but I cannot remember which one. I use magnesium bicarbonate.

@charlie and @Orion I have used Allithiamine since early Jan 2016...immediate benefits of energy...by March 2016 I added B2 and saw more energy benefits. Last spring I added in Inositol with another increase. Still taking B vitamins, sometimes using unfortified yeast, and couldn't handle the boiling water dose. Mid Oct 2018 started low Vitamin A diet....with even more energy increase. Now I cannot do too many B's without it upsetting my body...still have other issues, but energy has been restored, PTL.

 

[Orion]

@charlie and @Orion I have used Allithiamine since early Jan 2016...immediate benefits of energy...by March 2016 I added B2 and saw more energy benefits. Last spring I added in Inositol with another increase. Still taking B vitamins, sometimes using unfortified yeast, and couldn't handle the boiling water dose. Mid Oct 2018 started low Vitamin A diet....with even more energy increase. Now I cannot do too many B's without it upsetting my body...still have other issues, but energy has been restored, PTL.

Good to hear @Trix Same for me, low VA has given my energy back, always feel rested after minimal sleep. Also I do not get hangovers from any amount of alcohol binge ingested, this is a huge change. I plan on testing small amounts of allithiamine to see of I react, currently take a divided Bcomplex that gives 10mg's or 10mcg's of the Bs, which seems enough for me.

 

[Tarmander]

Good to hear @Trix Same for me, low VA has given my energy back, always feel rested after minimal sleep. Also I do not get hangovers from any amount of alcohol binge ingested, this is a huge change. I plan on testing small amounts of allithiamine to see of I react, currently take a divided Bcomplex that gives 10mg's or 10mcg's of the Bs, which seems enough for me.

which B complex Orion?

Same for alcohol with me, but only with bourbon/whiskey/scotch. A few beers still makes me feel a bit off the next day

 

[Orion]

which B complex Orion?

Same for alcohol with me, but only with bourbon/whiskey/scotch. A few beers still makes me feel a bit off the next day

I use this one, dividing the pill in 4, take a 1/4 pill most days.
B Complex

 

[Inaut]

No concern for the excipients @Orion

 

[Orion]

No concern for the excipients @Orion

Would like a cleaner one, but its inexpensive and the small dosage seems to agree with me.

 

[Orion]

Posted this in the VA thread as well:

Tested allithiamine the last 5 days(~10mg/day).

Did not go well; decreased mood, increased fatigue, frequent night wakings, colder hands and feet. Seems to drive carb metabolism to much in me, carbs used up to quickly?, stress response and like fat metabolism gets turned off. Assuming it skews the B1/B2 ratio to much, I did take extra B2 with it.

Did not get this response from high dose B1 HCl and B2. That said it could be quite useful for some, seems quite powerful stuff.

 

[charlie]

Posted this in the VA thread as well:

Tested allithiamine the last 5 days(~10mg/day).

Did not go well; decreased mood, increased fatigue, frequent night wakings, colder hands and feet. Seems to drive carb metabolism to much in me, carbs used up to quickly?, stress response and like fat metabolism gets turned off. Assuming it skews the B1/B2 ratio to much, I did take extra B2 with it.

Did not get this response from high dose B1 HCl and B2. That said it could be quite useful for some, seems quite powerful stuff.

It could be the refeeding paradox that Dr. Lonsdale talks about.

 

[Orion]

It could be the refeeding paradox that Dr. Lonsdale talks about.

Ok that makes a little more sense, I may have to test again in awhile, might wait for some months to get circulating VA down a little lower as well.

"Derrick Lonsdale says:
August 8, 2017 at 9:39 am
You ARE “flying blind” because very few physicians know about “paradox”. It also has been mentioned on this website as “refeeding syndrome”. When you have been deficient in thiamin, in particular, for a long time, the paradox is apt to be prolonged because you are resuscitating a mechanism that has been broken. It is too difficult at a technical level to explain refeeding syndrome or paradox. It is to do with an explosion in oxygen utilization. The longer you have been deficient, the longer the paradox and it is entirely and completely unpredictable. My experience over many years is that it is the best prediction of ultimate success. It is encoded in the saying “there is no gain without pain”. Jason has evidence of multiple B complex vitamin deficiencies and he would benefit best from intravenous vitamins or multiple injections of B complex."

 

[Tarmander]

I have some benfo on the way to try. Orion do you think trying much less would work for you? like a few mg?

 

[Orion]

I have some benfo on the way to try. Orion do you think trying much less would work for you? like a few mg?

Started reading through all the Dr. Lonsdale comments on the posts over at
Hormones Mattter
seems that low and slow are the way to go, with 50mg/day being low, getting to 100mg X 3 during the day, and trying to wait out the paradox/refeed symptoms, that could last up to a month. He does recommend alli or lipo over benfo(it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier). Just not sure what the duration of supping is to fully recover.

The symptoms I got were miserable, so waiting it out would be tough, could be good to go really low and take your time, maybe skip some days.

I think there is a connection here between vitamin A and thiamine, he mentions that excess sugar is the B1 deficiency creator, I think VA overload is another big contributor, with accutane crippling the system.

 

[charlie]

Started reading through all the Dr. Lonsdale comments on the posts over at

If you find any noteworthy quotes and would like to post it to the thread below I would sincerely appreciate it.

Quotes From Dr. Derrick Lonsdale

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Interesting.

Started reading through all the Dr. Lonsdale comments on the posts over at
Hormones Mattter
seems that low and slow are the way to go, with 50mg/day being low, getting to 100mg X 3 during the day, and trying to wait out the paradox/refeed symptoms, that could last up to a month. He does recommend alli or lipo over benfo(it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier). Just not sure what the duration of supping is to fully recover.

The symptoms I got were miserable, so waiting it out would be tough, could be good to go really low and take your time, maybe skip some days.

I think there is a connection here between vitamin A and thiamine, he mentions that excess sugar is the B1 deficiency creator, I think VA overload is another big contributor, with accutane crippling the system.

Have you stumbled across publications that hint at retinoids modulating b1 or is it a hunch?

 

[Orion]

Interesting.

Have you stumbled across publications that hint at retinoids modulating b1 or is it a hunch?

Check out this link here I posted earlier: Vitamin B1 (Thiamine) Deficiency: The "Great Imitator" Of Other Illnesses

 

[Tarmander]

I am going to give thiamine a decent try, maybe try Alli if Benfo doesn't work. There are definitely some red flags with the treatment though, but given that the refeeding/detox/herx/whatever is only supposed to go on for a month, I think we can find out rather quickly if B1, VA, and this whole things are tied together.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Yes, thanks @Orion. I‘ve read that already and forgotten. Thanks for sharing !

 

[Ihor]

I know that there is an activated form of thiamine which has different names Thiamine pyrophosphate (TPP or ThPP), or thiamine diphosphate (ThDP), or cocarboxylase, but the molecule is the same.
This form is made from thiamine through the enzyme thiamine diphosphokinase and, as I see, like all other B vitamins, ATP is required. I don't understand, are there any advantages from the Вenfotiamine and Allithiamine compared to Thiamine pyrophosphate? They are described as a more bioavailable form, but exactly Thiamine pyrophosphate is the form of coenzyme that is used in the most important reactions, such as:

• Pyruvate dehydrogenase complex
• Pyruvate decarboxylase in ethanol fermentation
• Alpha-ketoglutarate dehydrogenase complex
• Branched-chain amino acid dehydrogenase complex
• 2-hydroxyphytanoyl-CoA lyase
• Transketolase

I found some on sale:
- Swanson Premium Activated Vitamin B-1 16 mg 30 Veg Caps - Swanson Health Products
- Vitamin B1, Thiamine Pyrophosphate, 60 capsules by Metabolics

Did anybody try something like this? And what is your opinion about this?

 

[Orion]

I know that there is an activated form of thiamine which has different names Thiamine pyrophosphate (TPP or ThPP), or thiamine diphosphate (ThDP), or cocarboxylase, but the molecule is the same.
This form is made from thiamine through the enzyme thiamine diphosphokinase and, as I see, like all other B vitamins, ATP is required. I don't understand, are there any advantages from the Вenfotiamine and Allithiamine compared to Thiamine pyrophosphate? They are described as a more bioavailable form, but exactly Thiamine pyrophosphate is the form of coenzyme that is used in the most important reactions, such as:

• Pyruvate dehydrogenase complex
• Pyruvate decarboxylase in ethanol fermentation
• Alpha-ketoglutarate dehydrogenase complex
• Branched-chain amino acid dehydrogenase complex
• 2-hydroxyphytanoyl-CoA lyase
• Transketolase

I found some on sale:
- Swanson Premium Activated Vitamin B-1 16 mg 30 Veg Caps - Swanson Health Products
- Vitamin B1, Thiamine Pyrophosphate, 60 capsules by Metabolics

Did anybody try something like this? And what is your opinion about this?

Read through the comments on this article, Dr. Lonsdale says that cocarboxylase does not enter cells like alli or lipo.

Navigating Thiamine Supplements- Hormones Matter