Vitamin B1 (Thiamine) Deficiency: The "Great Imitator" Of Other Illnesses

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
11,676
Location
USA
"In this video, Dr. Berg talks about vitamin B deficiency. Transketolase is the enzyme for vitamin B deficiency test. Enzymes are the things that do the work in the body and B1 is involved in 5 different enzymes. Vitamin B1 deficiency is called Beri Beri and known as a great mimicker of disease. He also talks about several reasons to why you become deficient in B1."

 

redsun

Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
Messages
1,800
"In this video, Dr. Berg talks about vitamin B deficiency. Transketolase is the enzyme for vitamin B deficiency test. Enzymes are the things that do the work in the body and B1 is involved in 5 different enzymes. Vitamin B1 deficiency is called Beri Beri and known as a great mimicker of disease. He also talks about several reasons to why you become deficient in B1."


Something Ive noticed over the months and years since I heard about Berg and started watching his videos is he slowly has diverged away from being the in-your-face keto IF guru. He still blatantly recommends keto and IF of course. Now he has increased his informative videos content to try and branch out and increase viewership. I always found it interesting that often times when I see his videos on my youtube feed they are sometimes bizarrely relevant to what is talked about here a lot. Carnivores, ketoers rarely talk or research about manganese, B1, potassium or micronutrients in general. For the carnivores its just "eat meat, drink water, eggs/dairy/organs optional" and keto is all about fat bombs and vegetables. Clearly the keto community icons have been learning from Peat or at least trying to learn actual nutritional science because the lowering insulin talk gets redundant.

I also notice that that are many many videos he has made talking about improving energy levels which is bizarre seeing as keto is supposed to be the fountain of youth and supposed to give you the best energy as possible.

Despite the fact that he is an adamant keto guru, its good news that he is getting information out there, especially about B1. Even ketoers can benefit from B1. Good at making short and informative videos, I'll give him that. Truth is truth regardless of who it comes from.
 

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Thread starter
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
11,676
Location
USA
Something Ive noticed over the months and years since I heard about Berg and started watching his videos is he slowly has diverged away from being the in-your-face keto IF guru. He still blatantly recommends keto and IF of course. Now he has increased his informative videos content to try and branch out and increase viewership. I always found it interesting that often times when I see his videos on my youtube feed they are sometimes bizarrely relevant to what is talked about here a lot. Carnivores, ketoers rarely talk or research about manganese, B1, potassium or micronutrients in general. For the carnivores its just "eat meat, drink water, eggs/dairy/organs optional" and keto is all about fat bombs and vegetables. Clearly the keto community icons have been learning from Peat or at least trying to learn actual nutritional science because the lowering insulin talk gets redundant.

I also notice that that are many many videos he has made talking about improving energy levels which is bizarre seeing as keto is supposed to be the fountain of youth and supposed to give you the best energy as possible.

Despite the fact that he is an adamant keto guru, its good news that he is getting information out there, especially about B1. Even ketoers can benefit from B1. Good at making short and informative videos, I'll give him that. Truth is truth regardless of who it comes from.
I think this is the first time I heard of him. He just popped up in my youtube feed but he seemed to be pretty dialed in with this video.

I wish I would have caught the B train a long time ago because it would have saved me a lot of suffering. :(

Just ran across this quote from Peat from "Nutrition For Women:

"[..]extra carbohydrate will make you need more vitamin B1."

@hattip @Amazoniac for posting that quote in the thread below which is a gold mine of health nuggets:
Nutrition For Women - Selected Parts
 
Last edited:

Tarmander

Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
3,481
I took pretty decent dosages of B1 for months, to the point where some of my nails started flattening out presumably from lack of iron. I have seen a few Dr.s recommend it as their go to when they are having a tough time diagnosing something. It probably has a lot of potential.

With that said, it never impressed me that much. For all this promise the delivery was substandard. I have heard this is because it is poorly absorbed, and I never got into the fat soluble kinds, so maybe that is where the potential lies.
 

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Thread starter
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
11,676
Location
USA
I have heard this is because it is poorly absorbed, and I never got into the fat soluble kinds, so maybe that is where the potential lies.
That and making sure to get adequate magnesium along with the other b-vitamins their co-factors. Amazoniac et el has shown that B1 deficiency sometimes cannot be fixed until another B deficiency has been addressed. Then the ATP magic happens.
 

yerrag

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
6,683
Location
Manila

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Thread starter
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
11,676
Location
USA
And what is the other B deficiency that needed to be addressed first Charlie?
I cannot remember off the top of my head but will see if I can hunt it down. @Amazoniac might know off hand.
 

yerrag

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
6,683
Location
Manila
I cannot remember off the top of my head but will see if I can hunt it down. @Amazoniac might know off hand.
I hope you're not experiencing too much of that - the tip of the tongue syndrome. I've been getting a lot of that lately. Seems like amyloid plaque on my brain. Been blaming it on endotoxins, but it could also be from b1 deficiency. Seeing your thread made me realize I needed a b1 recharge. I've been sluggish lately, my blood sugar's high 2 hours after a meal (at 103 where normally it's at 85). I realize now it's likely a b1 deficiency, as I've experienced a lot of more than usual urinating for 2 months now, and that it would have exhausted by b1 (as well as potassium). It may also be affecting my memory, which hasn't been this bad before.
 

Amazoniac

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
7,752
Location
Not Uganda
And what is the other B deficiency that needed to be addressed first Charlie?
It's what you already know: they can't do much on their own and it's very likely that deficiencies appear in clusters.

There should be a thread entitled 'Therapeutic adequacy relying on multiples of the RDAs'. Something like: 1.5x electrolytes, 6x energy B-vitamins, 2x methylation B-vitamins (except choline), 2.5x trace minerals. It would only require minor adjustments.
 
Last edited:

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Thread starter
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
11,676
Location
USA
I hope you're not experiencing too much of that - the tip of the tongue syndrome.
No I just plain forgot. lol I been reading so much on B's lately, so much to take in. But like Amazoniac said they run in a constellation so best to get them all covered as best as possible along with magnesium and the other B co-factors.
 

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Thread starter
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
11,676
Location
USA
There should be a thread entitled 'Therapeutic adequacy relying on multiples of the RDAs'. Something like: 1.5x electrolytes, 6x energy B-vitamins, 2x methylation B-vitamins (except choline), 2.5x trace minerals. It would only require minor adjustments.
I will be waiting. :ss2
 

Tarmander

Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
3,481
It's what you already know: they can't do much on their own and it's very likely that deficiencies appear in clusters.

There should be a thread entitled 'Therapeutic adequacy relying on multiples of the RDAs'. Something like: 1.5x electrolytes, 6x energy B-vitamins, 2x methylation B-vitamins (except choline), 2.5x trace minerals. It would only require minor adjustments.

No I just plain forgot. lol I been reading so much on B's lately, so much to take in. But like Amazoniac said they run in a constellation so best to get them all covered as best as possible along with magnesium and the other B co-factors.

So basically a Myers cocktail? They do some amazing things but they have been around for a long time. I’d still recommend them
 

Orion

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
Messages
829
This info below was posted a couple years ago on the acne.org, wonder if VA overload is the root of B1 deficiencies, since we need to convert to RA to excrete VA.

I tried high dose B1/B2 previous to my low VA diet, with limit success. Trying allithiamine with low VA diet may be a novel way to get B1 back online. I may get some to test out, 10 months of low VA have done wonders for me, so I don't think it would hurt to experiment.


=====
Retinoic acid = decreased Transketolase (thiamine deficiency)

Accutane inhibits hippocampal neurogenesis by using up the NADPH reducing cofactor... Thiamine

NADPH needed as a CYP26A cofactor for retinoic acid detoxification.

NADPH (B1) and FAD (B2) cofactors should be promoted.



Proteomic approach reveals novel targets for retinoic acid-mediated therapy of thyroid carcinoma.

Our previous studies demonstrated that retinoic acid (RA)-induced reduction of both, the key glycolytic enzyme ENO1 and proliferation-promoting c-Myc, resulted in decreased vitality and invasiveness of the follicular thyroid carcinoma cell lines FTC-133 and FTC-238. By employing two-dimensional electrophoresis and mass spectrometry, we identified proteins affected by RA treatment. In addition to previously reported decrease in ENO1 expression, we found that RA led to significantly reduced levels of glyceraldehyde-3-phosphate dehydrogenase (GAPDH), pyruvate kinase isoenzymes M1/M2 (PKM1/M2), peptidyl-prolyl cis-trans isomerase A (PPIA), transketolase (TKT), annexin A2 (ANXA2), glutathione S-transferase P (GSTP1) and peroxiredoxin 2 (PRDX2) as compared to untreated control.
Proteomic approach reveals novel targets for retinoic acid-mediated therapy of thyroid carcinoma. - PubMed - NCBI

Decreased transketolase activity contributes to impaired hippocampal neurogenesis induced by thiamine deficiency.

Thiamine deficiency (TD) impairs hippocampal neurogenesis. However, the mechanisms involved are not identified. In this work, TD mouse model was generated using a thiamine-depleted diet at two time points, TD9 and TD14 for 9 and 14 days of TD respectively. The activities of pyruvate dehydrogenase (PDH), alpha-ketoglutamate dehydrogenase (KGDH), glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase (G6PD), and transketolase (TK), as well as on the contents of NADP(+) and NADPH were determined in whole mouse brain, isolated cortex, and hippocampus of TD mice model. The effects of TK silencing on the growth and migratory ability of cultured hippocampal progenitor cells (HPC), as well as on neuritogenesis of hippocampal neurons were explored. The results showed that TD specifically reduced TK activity in both cortex and hippocampus, without significantly affecting the activities of PDH, KGDH, and G6PD in TD9 and TD14 groups. The level of whole brain and hippocampal NADPH in TD14 group were significantly lower than that of control group. TK silencing significantly inhibited the proliferation, growth, and migratory abilities of cultured HPC, without affecting neuritogenesis of cultured hippocampal neurons.Taken together, these results demonstrate that decreased TK activity leads to pentose-phosphate pathway dysfunction and contributes to impaired hippocampal neurogenesis induced by TD. TK and pentose-phosphate pathway may be considered new targets to investigate hippocampal neurogenesis.
Decreased transketolase activity contributes to impaired hippocampal neurogenesis induced by thiamine deficiency. - PubMed - NCBI

13-cis Retinoic acid (accutane) suppresses hippocampal cell survival in mice.

Sakai Y1, Crandall JE, Brodsky J, McCaffery P.
Author information

Abstract
Use of the acne drug Accutane (13-cis retinoic acid, [13-cis RA]) has been associated with severe depression. This association has been considered controversial because no causative link has been found between 13-cis RA and this disorder. A recent hypothesis has suggested that atrophy of the hippocampus can result in depression. We now show, in a mouse model, that endogenous RA generated by synthetic enzymes in the meninges acts on hippocampal granule neurons, and chronic (3-week) exposure to a clinical dose of 13-cis RA may result in hippocampal cell loss. In humans this may be conjectured to be the mechanism by which Accutane contributes to depression.

also..
http://www.accutaneaction.com/Studies/2004_Sakai.pdf
 

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Thread starter
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
11,676
Location
USA
This info below was posted a couple years ago on the acne.org, wonder if VA overload is the root of B1 deficiencies, since we need to convert to RA to excrete VA.

I tried high dose B1/B2 previous to my low VA diet, with limit success. Trying allithiamine with low VA diet may be a novel way to get B1 back online. I may get some to test out, 10 months of low VA have done wonders for me, so I don't think it would hurt to experiment.


=====
Retinoic acid = decreased Transketolase (thiamine deficiency)

Accutane inhibits hippocampal neurogenesis by using up the NADPH reducing cofactor... Thiamine

NADPH needed as a CYP26A cofactor for retinoic acid detoxification.

NADPH (B1) and FAD (B2) cofactors should be promoted.


Proteomic approach reveals novel targets for retinoic acid-mediated therapy of thyroid carcinoma.

Our previous studies demonstrated that retinoic acid (RA)-induced reduction of both, the key glycolytic enzyme ENO1 and proliferation-promoting c-Myc, resulted in decreased vitality and invasiveness of the follicular thyroid carcinoma cell lines FTC-133 and FTC-238. By employing two-dimensional electrophoresis and mass spectrometry, we identified proteins affected by RA treatment. In addition to previously reported decrease in ENO1 expression, we found that RA led to significantly reduced levels of glyceraldehyde-3-phosphate dehydrogenase (GAPDH), pyruvate kinase isoenzymes M1/M2 (PKM1/M2), peptidyl-prolyl cis-trans isomerase A (PPIA), transketolase (TKT), annexin A2 (ANXA2), glutathione S-transferase P (GSTP1) and peroxiredoxin 2 (PRDX2) as compared to untreated control.
Proteomic approach reveals novel targets for retinoic acid-mediated therapy of thyroid carcinoma. - PubMed - NCBI

Decreased transketolase activity contributes to impaired hippocampal neurogenesis induced by thiamine deficiency.

Thiamine deficiency (TD) impairs hippocampal neurogenesis. However, the mechanisms involved are not identified. In this work, TD mouse model was generated using a thiamine-depleted diet at two time points, TD9 and TD14 for 9 and 14 days of TD respectively. The activities of pyruvate dehydrogenase (PDH), alpha-ketoglutamate dehydrogenase (KGDH), glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase (G6PD), and transketolase (TK), as well as on the contents of NADP(+) and NADPH were determined in whole mouse brain, isolated cortex, and hippocampus of TD mice model. The effects of TK silencing on the growth and migratory ability of cultured hippocampal progenitor cells (HPC), as well as on neuritogenesis of hippocampal neurons were explored. The results showed that TD specifically reduced TK activity in both cortex and hippocampus, without significantly affecting the activities of PDH, KGDH, and G6PD in TD9 and TD14 groups. The level of whole brain and hippocampal NADPH in TD14 group were significantly lower than that of control group. TK silencing significantly inhibited the proliferation, growth, and migratory abilities of cultured HPC, without affecting neuritogenesis of cultured hippocampal neurons.Taken together, these results demonstrate that decreased TK activity leads to pentose-phosphate pathway dysfunction and contributes to impaired hippocampal neurogenesis induced by TD. TK and pentose-phosphate pathway may be considered new targets to investigate hippocampal neurogenesis.
Decreased transketolase activity contributes to impaired hippocampal neurogenesis induced by thiamine deficiency. - PubMed - NCBI

13-cis Retinoic acid (accutane) suppresses hippocampal cell survival in mice.

Sakai Y1, Crandall JE, Brodsky J, McCaffery P.
Author information

Abstract
Use of the acne drug Accutane (13-cis retinoic acid, [13-cis RA]) has been associated with severe depression. This association has been considered controversial because no causative link has been found between 13-cis RA and this disorder. A recent hypothesis has suggested that atrophy of the hippocampus can result in depression. We now show, in a mouse model, that endogenous RA generated by synthetic enzymes in the meninges acts on hippocampal granule neurons, and chronic (3-week) exposure to a clinical dose of 13-cis RA may result in hippocampal cell loss. In humans this may be conjectured to be the mechanism by which Accutane contributes to depression.

also..
http://www.accutaneaction.com/Studies/2004_Sakai.pdf
Boom! I knew it! Hot diggity dog. Just like Dr. Lonsdale says,,, B12 and Folate go high( I think the context was Autism patients) and throw things out of whack when there is a B1 deficiency. Then when B1 is brought back in the Folate and B12 come down because it is able to be metabolized correctly. I was thinking the same thing probably happens with vitamin A or something along those lines.

Holy moly this is yuuuuuuge!
 
Last edited:

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Thread starter
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
11,676
Location
USA
I tried high dose B1/B2 previous to my low VA diet, with limit success. Trying allithiamine with low VA diet may be a novel way to get B1 back online. I may get some to test out, 10 months of low VA have done wonders for me, so I don't think it would hurt to experiment.
Dr. Lonsdale feels magnesium is super important too and Amazoniac et el feels all the B's run as a complex.
 

magnesiumania

Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2018
Messages
452
Boom! I knew it! Hot diggity dog. Just like Dr. Lonsdale says,,, B12 and Folate go high( I think the context was Autism patients) and throw things out of whack when there is a B1 deficiency. Then when B1 is brought back in the Folate and B12 come down because it is able to be metabolized correctly. I was thinking the same thing probably happens with vitamin A or something along those lines.

Holy moly this is yuuuuuuge!

What else does folate and B12 have in common? They are photoreceptors (look that up). Your light environment determine how you metabolize those vitamins...
 

Orion

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
Messages
829
Dr. Lonsdale feels magnesium is super important too and Amazoniac et el feels all the B's run as a complex.

I tried all the Mg forms when testing the B1/B2 experiments, along with higher dose non active Bs. MgCl topically and orally, glycinate, etc... Connecting the dots, I think allithiamine is the next experiment, after some time under zero/low VA diet.

There were lots of forums discussing 1600mg B1 HCl per day, to get it back online, tried this for a few months, with Mg and all the other Bs, no real movement in health in a positive direction, but no negatives either. I think getting VA depleted or out of overload territory could be helpful here.
 

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Thread starter
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
11,676
Location
USA
. Connecting the dots, I think allithiamine is the next experiment, after some time under zero/low VA diet.
Please let us know how it goes.
 

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Thread starter
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
11,676
Location
USA
What else does folate and B12 have in common? They are photoreceptors (look that up). Your light environment determine how you metabolize those vitamins...
Very important, thank you!
 

Amazoniac

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
7,752
Location
Not Uganda
So basically a Myers cocktail? They do some amazing things but they have been around for a long time. I’d still recommend them
There are variations on it, but the proportions are odd.

- 100 mg thiamine HCl
- 2 mg riboflavin
- 100 mg nicotinamide
- 0 mg choline
- ~250 mg dexpanthenol
- ~ 100 mg pyridoxine HCl
- 0 mg biotin
- 0 mg folate
- 1 mg hydroxocobalamin
..

Have you tried calcium chloride?

I will be waiting. :ss2
Given that requirements are generalized to guarantee adequacy for most people, in theory this means that if the entire population suddenly started to need more, a great deal of them would still be covered.

upload_2019-9-8_19-36-43.png

upload_2019-9-8_19-36-54.png

Nevertheless, for safe nutrients, it's better to err on the side of abundance when someone has to recover. Logging a diet on nutrition apps might give the impression that it's adequate if you judge by default targets, when in reality it's not.
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
haidut Majority Of Cancer Patients Have Vitamin B1 (thiamine) Deficiency Cancer 4
haidut Deficiency Of Vitamin B1 (thiamine) Can Cause The Cancer Metabolism Scientific Studies 10
Lokzo This B-Vitamin Can Raise Dopamine (Thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide - TTFD) Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 58
charlie Thiamine (Vitamin B1) And Fatigue In Inflammatory Bowel Diseases Scientific Studies 6
Inaut Dr. Chandler Marrs On Vitamin B1 (Thiamine) - Mitochondria's Gateway To Energy B1 23
haidut A Subset Of Diabetes I Can Be Cured By Vitamin B1 (thiamine) Scientific Studies 12
ShirtTieFitness Peas: The Thiamine And Vitamin K Powerhouse Starches, Fiber, Legumes 17
haidut Vitamin B1 (thiamine) And Testosterone Can Cure Liver Cirrhosis Scientific Studies 27
natedawggh Cilantro Neutralizes Vitamin B1 (thiamine) Caused Body Odor Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 10
Q Is Vitamin D induced serotonin syndrome possible? Please hear me out... Ask For Help or Advice 20
T VItamin D Megadose accident, what to do Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 6
N Home made vitamin D... Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 1
bzmazu Why politicians and doctors keep ignoring the medical research on Vitamin D and Covid Rant or Rave 2
S I think vitamin K2 ruined my life. Vitamins 75
S Fluorescent pee after b vitamin supp, Normal?! Ask For Help or Advice 15
Hirri Suddenly lower Vitamin D question Vitamins 9
Pistachio Vitamin K2's effect on Lunulae (fingernail crescents) Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 0
Ras How can Vitamin K2 MK-4 be Price's Activator X? K 10
R Interesting podcast on dangers of vitamin E supplementation E 1
Mauritio Cistanche more effective at decreasing lipid peroxidation and free radicals than Vitamin E and Caffeine Science 29
J Vitamin d powder Ask For Help or Advice 8
Mito The efficacy of Vitamin K in the treatment of cancer K 1
Brandin vitamin e to balance eggs pufa. Polyunsaturated Fats, Seed Oils 15
G How many of you have gotten Vitamin D injections? D 10
Mito Vitamin D Supplementation Ameliorates Metabolic Dysfunction in Patients with PCOS D 0
deliciousfruit Does liver from grain-fed animals contain vitamin A? Meat, Organ Meat, Gelatin, Seafood 2
C Vitamin D lamp? D 17
M Vitamin D3 makes me feel cold D 16
Lokzo Vitamin B6 Increases Serotonin, Regardless of Serotonin Levels - PUBMED Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 2
P Vitamin B12 Facilitates the Retroconversion of Estrogens into Androgens by Bacteria Scientific Studies 3
R Is vitamin K2 required when taking Vitamin D? Vitamins 16
Charger Blunted Emotions from Vitamin K2? K 8
bzmazu Hey Drinkers....The case for Vitamin-Enriched Alcohol Alcohol, Tobacco, Drugs 3
Mito The efficacy of vitamin E in reducing non-alcoholic fatty liver disease E 0
ecstatichamster how do you oxidize vitamin C safely? C 8
Mito The Inhibitory Roles of Vitamin K in Progression of Vascular Calcification K 0
haidut Fasting ups estrogen & cortisol, decimates vitamin D, may cause diabetes Scientific Studies 11
haidut Vitamin D prevents cortisol-induced depression and...inflammation Scientific Studies 0
haidut Vitamin D is anti-catabolic / anabolic, protects liver from cortisol injury Scientific Studies 2
metabolizm Vitamin D Supplementation is Improving my Sleep D 23
A Cheap Vitamin C products, any contamination risk? Ask For Help or Advice 8
J Interesting study claims Vitamin K2 should be classified as a hormone Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 9
Lokzo The Ameliorating Effects Of Vitamin E On Hepatotoxicity Of Ecstasy Scientific Studies 0
M I’m Not Convinced Vitamin D Should Be Supplemented D 152
Mito 7-fold Higher COVID-19 Mortality In Vitamin D Deficient Subjects D 2
ursidae How To Make Vitamin D Work? Ask For Help or Advice 52
A Pufa Detox - Vitamin E Polyunsaturated Fats, Seed Oils 6
ddjd Is Vitamin A (retinol Palmitate/acetate) Dangerous During Pregnency? Ask For Help or Advice 1
Mito Vitamin D Supplementation During Winter: Effects On Stress Resilience D 10
C Mega Dos Vitamin B1 With? Vitamins 0

Similar threads

Top