Vitamin B1 Dosage

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Haidut, what's your source of B1, brand-wise? Are you aware of any concerns regarding its toxicity or displacing other vitamins or minerals?
 

jaa

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Lots of info there haidut! I remember when I used to take piracetam I would take sulbutamine as well and that made me feel very good. Perhaps it's time to get back on the B1 train.

What B-Complex do you take and with what frequency?
 

haidut

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The B1 I take is just a cheap one from RiteAid brand. Each pill has 300mg of B1 so I take 5 pills at a time. The ingredients are rice flower and gelatin, or at least that's what it says on the label. So far haven't felt any stomach issues and I have a really sensitive stomach based on which I pick supplements.
My B complex is the regular B complex sold by CVS. They sell several versions like "High Stress B Complex" and the like but those have really high contents of B6 and B2, and I remember Ray saying that a good dose of B6 is 5mg-10mg. So, I just buy the regular B Complex with 5mg B6 and 10mg of B2. It has some others as well but low dosages.
Haven't noticed any depletion issues but maybe that's because I take it with B Complex and 500mg of niacinamide.

Finally, my dosage is as described earlier - 1500mg B1, 1 pill B complex, 1 pill 500mg niacinamide. I take this combo morning, afternoon and before bed.
 

haidut

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tomisonbottom

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haidut said:
Finally, my dosage is as described earlier - 1500mg B1, 1 pill B complex, 1 pill 500mg niacinamide. I take this combo morning, afternoon and before bed.

Thanks for all the info, this really interests me because I definitely have energy issues.
Did you notice a difference right away when you started doing this?
Also, Cliff says on the 1st page of this thread that 2-3mg is best (physiological doses).
You're obviously taking much much more. Are you take such large amounts because of those studies you posted?
Thanks!
 

haidut

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I take high doses for various reasons. The most important one being that the RDA for vitamin B1 (and other vitamins too) were developed decades ago and it takes into account the minimum amount necessary for survival. So, 2mg-3mg is what is barely sufficient for not developing diseases like Beri-Beri (and I am not even sure it would enough to prevent it). Ray Peat said he was taking several hundred milligrams when he was learning new languages, so that gave me a hint. Also, I know that people with health issues have been treated with much higher dosages. For instance, a typical hospital treatment protocol with thiamine (B1) is 100mg-200mg IV. Broadly assuming 1:10 conversion for IV:eek:ral you get 1,000mg-2,000 per day which is getting close to the doses I take. Finally, many studies on PubMed talk about how people can show normal plasma levels of B1 but be very deficient in it. Look at the studies I posted on Chron's.
As far as energy - I do feel it within 30min and I think for me the full effect kicks in within 60min and stays like that for 3-4 hours assuming I also eat regularly and make sure I get some carbs as well.
I am not advocating everybody take B1 at my dosage, I am just saying the the studies with oral thiamine typically use multi-gram dosages per day, probably with a very good reason.
 

Wilfrid

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BingDing said:
Wilfrid said:
The brand I like is Metabolics.
It's a british company and they have both liquid forms of activated B1 and B6.
The ingredients are thiamin pyrophosphate and purified water for the liquid B1 and P5P and purified water for the B6.
The dosage is really easy and absorption really optimal.

Wilfrid, if you're still around can you tell me how you use the B1 liquid? The site says 1 drop is 615mcg, so 100 drops for 6.15mg, about a physiologic dose. Is that what you do?

I have some doubts about thiamin hydrochloride as far as absorption goes. When I've used B1 in the past I didn't get anything out of it. There are no sources of pure thiamin pyrophosphate in the US, AFAIK.

Thx

Hi bingding,

I think that 1mg = 1000mcg.
So for the metabolics' B1, with only 3 drops you've got around 1,8mg which is, I think, more or less the RDA in the US.
I take 30 drops of it under the tongue and try to keep it as long as possible in my mouth.
When doing that, a fair amount of the vitamin will be very fast acting and readily in the blood circulation, thanks to the thin mucous membrane of the mouth.
Have you try to get this coenzymated B1 through the chemical company named Sigma Aldrich? I know for sure that,in France at least,you can order some pure thiamine pyrosphosphate powder.

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/pro ... &region=FR

Or the brand Source Naturals? I think that you can get sublingualy activated B1 from them.

http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Co ... lets/1077/

I never, either, got any positive or negative effect from thiamine Hcl or from any not activated B's.
As soon as I switched to activated one's, I felt a difference with even a lower dosage.
 
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Wilfrid,

I have been considering ordering stuff from Sigma-Aldrich since they should have the best quality control and purity out there. But I was hesitant since I thought they woudn't send stuff to individuals. Did you have to get it through a university or research institution or did you just have it delivered home?

Also, can you describe the effects from the thiamine pyrophosphate? I have tried the metabolics B1 but didn't feel anything at even capfull doses.
 

aquaman

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haidut said:
So the whole combo is what gives me the all-day energy surge, taking just B1 at the dose I mentioned gives me about 70% of the effect.
If you need more info on B1 just ask. I have been experimenting with it a lot.

What do you / did you feel like without these B-vits?

And what made you focus on B vitamins as the solution to your energy issue?
 

BingDing

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Thanks for the info, Wilfrid. I got Metabolics capsules since I didn't have to do any math, LOL. I've been using 500mg of Niacinamide 3 times a day and the B1 fits right in. I'll probably try the combo haidut wrote about. Most of the sources I found said there is no "tolerable upper limit" determined for B1 because there are no records of anyone ODing on it. And it is generally recognized as nontoxic.
 

haidut

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Taking just B1 without the B complex and niacinamide just gives me an energy rush but it does not affect motivation. So, I've had days where I felt like I could walk/run with an unnatural ease but if I didn't feel desire to do it I wouldn't. The B complex contains B6, which in some people acts like prolactin antagonist and dopamine agonist (there are studies showing both effects in humans). So, taking the B complex on top of B1 gives me that desire/motivation to do things and B1 the necessary energy to do it. Without the B complex I just super relaxed and do things with ease...if I get around to anything at all. Taking also the B complex makes me want to do things as well. Thus, it's pretty helpful for long study sessions and boring weeks at work.
 

edwardBe

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haidut

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I get niacinamide from VItamin Shoppe or any other store where the label does not list any bad ingredients. GNC and RideAid both carry some cheap versions that seem to be relatively free of additives.
 

edwardBe

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Thanks for the quick answer!
 

Kray

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haidut said:
Here are the B Complex and B1 I buy:
http://www.cvs.com/shop/product-detail/ ... uId=695080
http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=16120406

Sorry, had a typo in my last post above. The vitamin B1 I buy is from GNC and not from RiteAid.

Haidut,

Sorry if I've asked this of you before, but I see you have a lot of knowledge about the B vitamins, and I have this one I just started- http://www.healthbeyondhype.com/premier ... p-455.html

Do you think it looks like good forms of the B's and in good balance with each other? I appreciate any feedback. I'm thinking I want to do a complex formula rather than individual because I don't want to imbalance one over the other, and I'm just not sure what individual ones I may need.

Thanks!
 

haidut

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classicallady said:
haidut said:
Here are the B Complex and B1 I buy:
http://www.cvs.com/shop/product-detail/ ... uId=695080
http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=16120406

Sorry, had a typo in my last post above. The vitamin B1 I buy is from GNC and not from RiteAid.

Haidut,

Sorry if I've asked this of you before, but I see you have a lot of knowledge about the B vitamins, and I have this one I just started- http://www.healthbeyondhype.com/premier ... p-455.html

Do you think it looks like good forms of the B's and in good balance with each other? I appreciate any feedback. I'm thinking I want to do a complex formula rather than individual because I don't want to imbalance one over the other, and I'm just not sure what individual ones I may need.

Thanks!

Well, based on the label the product at least does not seem to have any toxic additives. However, I am not sure what the effects of this bacterial combination on the body would be. The bottle contains the following:

Proprietary blend (2.5ml) of:

"Primary Saccharomyces Cerevisiae, Bifidobacterium Species (breve ss.breve, infantis ss. infantis, longum), Enterococcus Species faecais TH10, faecium), Lactobacillus Species (acidophilus, bulgaricus, casei ss. casei, fermentum, helveticus ss. jagurti, plantarum), Streptococcus Therm."

That's a mix of a dozen bacteria and I don't know much about their effects, alone or in combination, on the human body. Some of them are yogurt bacteria, but some others are unknown to me. Assuming the bacteria are safe, the rest of the ingredients look OK.
 

Kray

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haidut said:
classicallady said:
haidut said:
Here are the B Complex and B1 I buy:
http://www.cvs.com/shop/product-detail/ ... uId=695080
http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=16120406

Sorry, had a typo in my last post above. The vitamin B1 I buy is from GNC and not from RiteAid.

Haidut,

Sorry if I've asked this of you before, but I see you have a lot of knowledge about the B vitamins, and I have this one I just started- http://www.healthbeyondhype.com/premier ... p-455.html

Do you think it looks like good forms of the B's and in good balance with each other? I appreciate any feedback. I'm thinking I want to do a complex formula rather than individual because I don't want to imbalance one over the other, and I'm just not sure what individual ones I may need.

Thanks!

Well, based on the label the product at least does not seem to have any toxic additives. However, I am not sure what the effects of this bacterial combination on the body would be. The bottle contains the following:

Proprietary blend (2.5ml) of:

"Primary Saccharomyces Cerevisiae, Bifidobacterium Species (breve ss.breve, infantis ss. infantis, longum), Enterococcus Species faecais TH10, faecium), Lactobacillus Species (acidophilus, bulgaricus, casei ss. casei, fermentum, helveticus ss. jagurti, plantarum), Streptococcus Therm."

That's a mix of a dozen bacteria and I don't know much about their effects, alone or in combination, on the human body. Some of them are yogurt bacteria, but some others are unknown to me. Assuming the bacteria are safe, the rest of the ingredients look OK.

Thanks for the quick response! Can you suggest how I might find out the answer to your questions? Is this product any different from a nutritional yeast that Peat has talked about, except that the yeast here has been reduced to its active components? Is the saccharomyces the substrate that the vitamins are formed from, and which is "eaten" up in the process, so that the bacteria are essentially no longer an issue in the final product? I'm sure I don't understand all this, which is why I'd like someone here to 'splain it to me :?
 

haidut

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classicallady said:
haidut said:
classicallady said:
haidut said:
Here are the B Complex and B1 I buy:
http://www.cvs.com/shop/product-detail/ ... uId=695080
http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=16120406

Sorry, had a typo in my last post above. The vitamin B1 I buy is from GNC and not from RiteAid.

Haidut,

Sorry if I've asked this of you before, but I see you have a lot of knowledge about the B vitamins, and I have this one I just started- http://www.healthbeyondhype.com/premier ... p-455.html

Do you think it looks like good forms of the B's and in good balance with each other? I appreciate any feedback. I'm thinking I want to do a complex formula rather than individual because I don't want to imbalance one over the other, and I'm just not sure what individual ones I may need.

Thanks!

Well, based on the label the product at least does not seem to have any toxic additives. However, I am not sure what the effects of this bacterial combination on the body would be. The bottle contains the following:

Proprietary blend (2.5ml) of:

"Primary Saccharomyces Cerevisiae, Bifidobacterium Species (breve ss.breve, infantis ss. infantis, longum), Enterococcus Species faecais TH10, faecium), Lactobacillus Species (acidophilus, bulgaricus, casei ss. casei, fermentum, helveticus ss. jagurti, plantarum), Streptococcus Therm."

That's a mix of a dozen bacteria and I don't know much about their effects, alone or in combination, on the human body. Some of them are yogurt bacteria, but some others are unknown to me. Assuming the bacteria are safe, the rest of the ingredients look OK.

Thanks for the quick response! Can you suggest how I might find out the answer to your questions? Is this product any different from a nutritional yeast that Peat has talked about, except that the yeast here has been reduced to its active components? Is the saccharomyces the substrate that the vitamins are formed from, and which is "eaten" up in the process, so that the bacteria are essentially no longer an issue in the final product? I'm sure I don't understand all this, which is why I'd like someone here to 'splain it to me :?

I think Peat said in the past the Brewer's yeast was estrogenic, but was high in B vitamins. I don't remember him recommending either way (for or against). You can pose yours and mine questions to the manufacturer, but in the meantime if you search Amazon (or even Google) for things like "Liquid vitamin B complex" you'll find many other alternatives that do not have bacteria and/or yeast as ingredients.
 

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