VIT K2 MK-4 increased calcification/stiffness?

[Nomane Euger]

@orangebear from november 2021 to april 2022 i have been in theory unintentionally on a low VA diet,eating mostly coconut water/cherimoya/honey/muscle meat,eating a lot and being very active,in april i started drinking milk and exposing my self to the sun,i started to develop different symptoms including kidneys pains,the kidneys pains were frequents,it reached a point where it was terrible,i ate 200 grammes of grass fed grass finished young lamb liver in early june 2022,and the kidneys pains went away despit exposing my self more to sunlight,and drinking milk

 

[baccheion]

does sunning burn all fat solubles including D3 and E, or only burns K2 and A and helps utilize them for bones?

Uses D3 to make calcitriol and A to make pregnenolone. More K to maintain ratio with A and D3.

 

[Dr. B]

Uses D3 to make calcitriol and A to make pregnenolone. More K to maintain ratio with A and D3.

does sunlight actually burn up or utilize vitamin E and K2 or only D3 and A?

 

[baccheion]

does sunlight actually burn up or utilize vitamin E and K2 or only D3 and A?

A and D3 lead to K usage/depletion. Vitamin E maybe not. E and I have short half-lives, though. K opposes E.

 

[Dr. B]

A and D3 lead to K usage/depletion. Vitamin E maybe not. E and I have short half-lives, though. K opposes E.

E and what have short half lives, E and K?

whole milk has lots of vitamin K2 doesnt it. 45mcg per 16oz for grass fed and the more yellow themilk the more K2

 

[CaptJim]

I always thought K lowered blood calcium (short term) by trying to put the calcium into bones.
The parathyroid gland releases PTH when blood calcium is too low.
Unbalanced K will then increase PTH, which increases blood calcium and can cause calcification, and even heart issues.
Taking K without a calcium increase in the diet can cause issues. Read about the calcium paradox.

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

I always thought K lowered blood calcium (short term) by trying to put the calcium into bones.
The parathyroid gland releases PTH when blood calcium is too low.
Unbalanced K will then increase PTH, which increases blood calcium and can cause calcification, and even heart issues.
Taking K without a calcium increase in the diet can cause issues. Read about the calcium paradox.

Makes sense. Thanks for sharing.

 

[baccheion]

E and what have short half lives, E and K?

whole milk has lots of vitamin K2 doesnt it. 45mcg per 16oz for grass fed and the more yellow themilk the more K2

E and K. It may have some, more if grass-fed and springtime. K2 drops (eg, Thorne) stabilize its presence. Even one drop (1 mg).

 

[S.Seneff]

While VIT K2 MK-4 [45mg] helped me with eczema and psoriasis [which maybe prove that this particular skin issues are tightly related to the blood vessels] it caused me to have symptoms of aortic valve calcification/myocarditis. Really badly.

Extreme chest tightening, short cough, shallow breathing, kidney pain, feeling of very stiff intestine and blood vessels and also some bit of blood in my stool.
Also symptoms of blood clotting [Some bloody "zits" on my skin].
One day I felt like If I move too fast the aorta/blood vessel in my chest would "break". That's how stiff it was.

First symptom I felt was some tingling in my chest so I removed VIT E which I was taking suspecting it was the cause - leaving me with only VIT K for the next 10+ days and discovering the worsening of the symptoms.

One day I felt such great kidney pain/inflammation [kidney was pulsating with the rhythm of the heartbeat] and any mineral dense food/drink would prolong the pain. With kidney pain I usually get chest pain and shortness of breath too...
Progesterone for example would reduce the pain and improve the symptoms. Maybe because of it's blood thinning/clot regulating effects.

It seems that K2 is doing something with the blood and the body can not regulate the change of the homeostasis for some reason.
It's pretty bizarre that I had increase in my calcification, kidney pain and stiffness while consuming high doses of VIT K.
I'm still baffled.

I haven't seen single bad study on VIT K and there seems to be no upper limit, but hey - all the bad ***t will happen to me, don't worry.

What the hell is the mechanism behind this?

The vitamin K removes some "calcium" which were maintaining some bigger "calcium clot" which were not dissolve by the K.

I suffer from crohn's disease [I'm mostly symptom free for 2 years].

And I had blood from my stool from using several different things in the past.

Cynomel, Cynoplus, VIT D, doxycycline and now VIT K all gave me some blood in my stool.

If I try somehow to connect the dots they all somehow lead to the state of the blood vessels since all of these supplements in some way have blood thinning/coagulating effect

Cynomel , cynoplus, vit d and doxycycline deplete magnesium.

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

The vitamin K removes some "calcium" which were maintaining some bigger "calcium clot" which were not dissolve by the K.

Not sure If I understand. Why would releasing calcium from the "calcium clot" create more clots? Because they are not dissolved? Are they supposed to be dissolved by K or trough some other mechanism? Do you think having K2 with something that dissolve clots like for example nattokinase would be more beneficial?

Do you think calcium comes to "seal" the damage done to the damaged blood vessel and than the K removed the calcium which were supposed to heal that damaged vessel and created the issues?

The strange thing is that I even start bleeding even if I have mineral water with high calcium. I also experience some strange brain feeling, like when I use "blood thinners". When that feeling happens I usually start bleeding few days after. It seems like I have a problem with coagulation/clotting system and also mineral/metal homeostasis and calcium metabolism.

Cynomel , cynoplus, vit d and doxycycline deplete magnesium.

The strange thing is that I never felt worse after supplementing magnesium bicarbonate which I made at home. I don't think I had bad experience to magnesium citrate which I used 3-4 years ago but I had extremely bad reaction to magnesium threonate. Cramps, anxiety and some other really weird stuff. I threw it in the garbage and never supplemented any mineral after that.

The only positive reaction to a supplement I probably ever had in my life was potassium citrate. But when I started eating more fruits and leafy greens I felt like I didn't need it.

Also I know that K2 heals my eczema extremely quickly. [but only when I use it topically on my stomach - but it leads to all these things I talked about here so it's very scary situation tbh]

I feel pretty confident by the research that points that infection/intracellular pathogens are screwing with these minerals, genes and hormones that are used to transport all these minerals...

 

[S.Seneff]

Yeah, it was not clear to me either ! My hypothesis is : you have one or several big clots (from unknown composition) which are stuck by calcium; so when vit.K takes the calcium, the clots could move. I guess K2 could not dissolve it with enough speed. That's my guess, it is just a guess. My guess is magnesium could probably doing the same thing. Otherwise I just don't know !

Despite their similar in vitro cofactor activity we show that MK-4 and not K1 inhibits warfarin-induced arterial calcification. The total hepatic K1 accumulation was threefold higher than that of MK-4, whereas aortic MK-4 was three times that of K1. The utilization of K1 and MK-4 in various tissues was estimated by calculating the ratios between accumulated quinone and epoxide species. K1 and MK-4 were both equally utilized in the liver, but the aorta showed a more efficient utilization of MK-4. Therefore, the observed differences between K1 and MK-4 with respect to inhibition of arterial calcification may be explained by both differences in their tissue bioavailability and cofactor utilization in the reductase/carboxylase reaction. An alternative explanation may come from an as yet hypothetical function of the geranylgeranyl side chain of MK-4, which is a structural analogue of geranylgeranyl pyrophosphate and could interfere with a critical step in the mevalonate pathway.

PMID: 14654717

TOXICITY OF VITAMIN K​

There have been almost no reported cases of natural vitamin K systemic toxicity, either in animals or in humans. There has been some concern that a high intake of vitamin K could result in overcoagulation. However, this has not been observed, possibly due to the limited sites for γ-carboxylation. Contrarily, very high doses of vitamin K can paradoxically cause hypoprothrombinemia, as has been documented in rare human case reports. In animals, massive doses have led to hemorrhages and anemia.215 Available data in humans show that 10 mg/day of vitamin K1 given for 1 month is not associated with any adverse effects. This is in line with the findings from animal experiments, in which even 2 g/kg for the same period of time was safe.31 In general, the reported side effects of vitamin K have only been local, eg, minor gastrointestinal complaints and skin rashes after vitamin K2, which disappear after discontinuing administration.9,28,113,116 Clinically, intramuscular administration of vitamin K1 is not very convenient due to pain at the site of injection and skin bruising. Therefore, more modern approaches such as microneedles are being examined.29 It should be mentioned, however, that vitamin K3 in high doses can lead, in a dose-dependent manner, to a toxic reaction, including hemolytic anemia, particularly in new-born infants. This reaction is likely associated with the redox-cycling of this vitamin, which does not occur in natural vitamins K1 and K2 due to the absence of unsubstituted position 3, which is highly reactive and binds thiol groups to form thioethers.2,216 Furthermore, preparations of vitamin K1 available for intravenous administration are sometimes associated with anaphylactoid reactions. Because of the lipid solubility of vitamin K, the preparations are aqueous colloidal suspensions that can induce anaphylactoid reactions. However, liposomal preparations can avoid this adverse reaction.217

PMC8907489

You take such a huge dose that it could be toxicity, even if the science says there is no upper limit, K2 is understudied.