Vit B6 Progesterone and Prolactin

[honeybee]

I've been researching the B vits recently and came upon a few forums that support using b6 100-300 mgs daily for increasing progesterone (mainly fertility forums) and also for decreasing prolactin (mostly the weight ligfting forums).
I have been supplementing b6 in hopes to lower prolactin, and have found it VERY effective. But when i started having issues with my cycle during this same time, I discovered the progesterone connection.
I wonder why I haven't heard more about progesterone and B6 from RP. Apparently b6 is very effective at increasing progesterone in the female body.
In any event, its worth some reaserch if you are concerned with progesterone, prolactin and estrogent dominance. Just Google "progesterone B6" and you will find quite alot out there. I am still reading up on it myself.
Also, I am now a firm believer in balancing the b's so I take a b50-complex as well as individual b6. In my experience, if I ONLY supplement individual b's, then I start getting sympotms of imbalance (usually insomnia). If I take the bcomplex and then dose individual b's, I don't have symptoms. :)

 

[charlie]

The side effects of B6 toxicity are can be very serious so that is something to be aware of. There has been discussions about B6 and prolactin here.

 

[north]

Which form of b6 are you taking?

 

[Curt :-)]

300mg seems like a lot considering Peat thinks 10mg is a high dose. I do recall someone on here saying that they were getting beneficial effects up to 300mg though.
But yeah, I've had good results with 50mg of B6 daily. It's probably my favourite supplement. One of the few that I can actually feel doing something.

 

[aguilaroja]

I've been researching the B vits recently and came upon a few forums that support using b6 100-300 mgs daily for increasing progesterone (mainly fertility forums) and also for decreasing prolactin (mostly the weight ligfting forums). ...
Also, I am now a firm believer in balancing the b's so I take a b50-complex as well as individual b6. In my experience, if I ONLY supplement individual b's, then I start getting sympotms of imbalance (usually insomnia)....

Dr. Peat has discussed B6, such as in relation to putative "essential fatty acids".

In general terms, he has for a long time been concerned about contaminants/excipients in single dose vitamins/nutrients and sought food sources when possible and over the long term. I do not know his recent thoughts about B6. Based on your post, I will peruse recent B6 research in relation to progesterone.

Since B6 is involved in protein metabolism, it has seemed anecdotally that in some cases to increase utilization of relatively depleted amino acids and provide relief. But this is speculation.

Regarding B6 toxicity-mainly neuropathy-I have followed the literature from early reports, though not so much recently. While it seems clear that there are some side effects for large & prolonged doses for some, it remains startling how "well known" B6 dangers are when, for instance, thousands of deaths per year are attributed to (pharmaceutical) NSAID's. I don't know the "incidence" of B6 toxicity, but probably millions of people take supplementary B6, maybe most in vitamin formulations, and I'd guess the total case reports to date are at most in the dozens.

The Gydnia article (below) describes a case where an older man took nearly 10 GRAMS of B6, maybe hundred times a common supplement dose, apparently for several years. The man's serum B6 levels were 15 times the upper range of normal. After being wheelchair bound, a year after stopping B6, he was able to walk, though with ataxia, without a cane.

There seem to be many open questions about B6 hazards, including if the P5P (pyridoxal-5-phosphate) form is substantially safer and what added vitamins/co-factors are protective. (I thought I once saw a P5P toxicity case report, but do not have a reference. An animal study could not provoke B6 lesions using P5P [Levine]. P5P is also used to treat neonatal epileptic encephalopathy [Stockler].)

FWIW, I once followed the "balance of B-vitamins/B-complex is best" dictum. On research, I was never able to trace where the dogma came from, nor to find what body of evidence supported it. I find this fascinating given that there must be hundreds of proprietary B-complex/multi formulations. I have not researched this meme recently and would welcome pointers for "B vitamin balance" evidence.

---
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fa ... ion3.shtml

"Several publications between 1936 and 1944 made it very clear that Burr's basic animal diet was deficient in various nutrients, especially vitamin B6. The disease that appeared in Burr's animals could be cured by fat free B-vitamin preparations, or by purified vitamin B6 when it became available. A zinc deficiency produces similar symptoms, and at the time Burr did his experiments, there was no information on the effects of fats on mineral absorption. If a diet is barely adequate in the essential minerals, increasing the metabolic rate, or decreasing intestinal absorption of minerals, will produce mineral deficiencies and metabolic problems.
"Although “Burr's disease” clearly turned out to be a B-vitamin deficiency, probably combined with a mineral deficiency, it continues to be cited as the basis justifying the multibillion dollar industry that has grown up around the “essential” oils."

http://raypeat.com/articles/nutrition/o ... text.shtml

"The early studies showing "essentiality" of unsaturated fats, by producing skin problems and an increased metabolic rate, have been criticized [18] in the light of better nutritional information, e.g., pointing out that the diets might have been deficient in vitamin B6 and/or biotin. The similar skin condition produced by vitamin B6 deficiency was found to be improved by adding unsaturated fats to the diet. A fat-free liver extract cured the "EFA deficiency." I think it would be reasonable to investigate the question of the increased metabolic rate produced by a diet lacking unsaturated fats (which inhibit both thyroid function and protein metabolism) in relation to the biological changes that have been observed. Since diets rich in protein are known to increase the requirement for vitamin B6 [19] (which is a co-factor of transaminases, for example), the increased rate of energy production and improved digestibility of dietary protein on a diet lacking unsaturated fats would certainly make it reasonable to provide the experimental animals with increased amount of other nutrients."

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/lactate.shtml
"Factors that lower the stress hormones, increase carbon dioxide, and help to lower the circulating free fatty acids, lactate, and ammonia, include vitamin B1 (to increase CO2 and reduce lactate), niacinamide (to reduce free fatty acids), sugar (to reduce cortisol, adrenaline, and free fatty acids), salt (to lower adrenaline), thyroid hormone (to increase CO2). Vitamins D, K, B6 and biotin are also closely involved with carbon dioxide metabolism."

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/im ... ency.shtml

"J Am Coll Nutr 1982;1(2):207-14. Auto-immune complications of D-penicillamine--a possible result of zinc and magnesium depletion and of pyridoxine inactivation. Seelig MS. Pyridoxine is necessary for cellular accumulation of zinc and magnesium, deficiencies of which have caused thymic and other immunologic abnormalities."

Neuromuscul Disord. 2008 Feb;18(2):156-8.
Severe sensorimotor neuropathy after intake of highest dosages of vitamin B6.
Gdynia HJ1, Müller T, Sperfeld AD, Kühnlein P, Otto M, Kassubek J, Ludolph AC.

We illustrate a white caucasian patient with a severe sensorimotor neuropathy due to vitamin B6 hypervitaminosis. The patient used the pendulum to calculate his daily metabolic demands and ingested 9.6g pyridoxine/day. To our knowledge, this is the highest dosage of vitamin B6 administered to humans over prolonged periods of time ever reported in the medical literature. The unique aspect of this case is the muscle weakness and motor findings on electrophysiological testing in what is suggested by the literature to be a pure sensory neuronopathy.

"Albin et al. described a sensory neuronopathy in two persons receiving 180 g intravenously [5]. Furthermore, a largely reversible B6-related sensory neuropathy has been described in patients suffering from homocystinuria [6]. Georg Krinke pioneered studies on experimental neuropathies in dogs and rats after high intake of vitamin B6 and observed an almost identical presentation as in humans [7]. Since these clinical and experimental observations, a dosage of 300–450 mg pyridoxine/day is thought to be safe in healthy adults of normal weight [3]. However, there were also occasional reports of toxicity after intake of 100–300 mg/day. The US authorities set the no-observed-adverse- effect-level at 200 mg per day and the safe upper limit at 100 mg/day [8]."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15558839
J Appl Toxicol. 2004 Nov-Dec;24(6):497-500.
Pyridoxine (vitamin B6) neurotoxicity: enhancement by protein-deficient diet.
Levine S1, Saltzman A.

"The vitamers related to pyridoxine (pyridoxal, pyridoxamine) and the coenzyme (pyridoxal 5-phosphate) did not cause clinical signs or lesions similar to those produced by pyridoxine even when injected in maximum tolerated doses."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21704546

Mol Genet Metab. 2011 Sep-Oct;104(1-2):48-60. doi: 10.1016/j.ymgme.2011.05.014.
Pyridoxine dependent epilepsy and antiquitin deficiency: clinical and molecular characteristics and recommendations for diagnosis, treatment and follow-up.
Stockler S1, Plecko B, Gospe SM Jr, Coulter-Mackie M, Connolly M, van Karnebeek C, Mercimek-Mahmutoglu S, Hartmann H, Scharer G, Struijs E, Tein I, Jakobs C, Clayton P, Van Hove JL.

 

[honeybee]

Hi everyone-Yes I am aware of the toxicity issues with B6. Since the body excretes what it doesn't need, theoretically if you are dosing such a high amount and experience sides, then the sides should go away? this is anecdotal perhaps. I am not afraid of overdosing since I am not taking the 300mg day-I was taking around 200 mg for about 3 days but it altered my fertility cycle (spotting between cycles) so I dropped down to 150 in divided doses. The problem went away within 2 days. And also there are TONS of anecdotal stories about short term supplementing of b6 increasing progesterone. To me, this is very interesting and worth more research. I would rather make my own progesterone.
:P
I do think that there is some "balance" to the bvits since I have problems when I dose them independently. I am still reaseacrhing, so perhaps one day I will be able to just intake the ones that I need and understand the correct amounts my body requires. For now, the b50 complex I am using works fine for me.
I am taking the PYRIDOXINE version -its cheap-apparently the pyridoxal (i think?) version doesn't have the sam ebenefits. I don't have the p5p yet-I might try it.
Thank you aguilaroja for your research & info-I will have to make some time to read these links.

 

[aguilaroja]

...I am still reasearching, so perhaps one day I will be able to just intake the ones that I need and understand the correct amounts my body requires. For now, the b50 complex I am using works fine for me....

Forum member danwich has investigated good quality nutrients sources including B6:

http://www.toxinless.com/vitamin-b6

Forum member haidut has investigated B vitamins in accord with Dr. Peat's views and distributes a product with several B vitamins to provide support:

http://squareup.com/market/idealabs-llc/energin-liquid

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3859&hilit=energin#p46070

I have no financial link with these folks and know them only from their posts on the forum.

 

[honeybee]

thanks aguilaroja.
I had to drastically reduce the amount b's I was taking. The b6 caused 14 day period (yikes) and I stopped supplementing it separately.
I cut my b50 into thirds after trying a half at a time. I seem to tolerate this better-my super long cycle stopped only after I began supplementing a third of the b-50. Very interesting to me-I had no idea b6 was that powerful. RP does recommend no more than 10mg. Unfortunately I ordered the p5p which I am now afraid to take in fear it will invoke another cycle. Sleep hadn't been affected at all-im still doing well in that dept.
I'm thinking of trying Haidut's energin (i think thats what it is called) becasue of the low dose bs.

 

[BingDing]

I had really good results from haiduts' Energin. I got a bunch of lab work done this summer and aced all my B tests, LOL. That was after about two months using Engergin. When I read about all the metabolic pathways that require B vitamins I am pretty happy with my decision to supplement.

FWIW, I had used several separate Bs over the last two years that were recommended on Dan's page for no bad excipients and by other forum members who had found them to be good forms, so I was surprised by my reaction to Energin. Maybe it is because of the liquid formulation in ethanol.

 

[Raypmom]

I had really good results from haiduts' Energin. I got a bunch of lab work done this summer and aced all my B tests, LOL. That was after about two months using Engergin. When I read about all the metabolic pathways that require B vitamins I am pretty happy with my decision to supplement.

FWIW, I had used several separate Bs over the last two years that were recommended on Dan's page for no bad excipients and by other forum members who had found them to be good forms, so I was surprised by my reaction to Energin. Maybe it is because of the liquid formulation in ethanol.

What were some of the things you experienced physically from energin, if you don't mind me asking. I'm considering this for my husband.

 

[BingDing]

RPmom, it's a little hard to think back about it and remember. Energy increased and a feeling of being healthy.

Over the last few months I've seen some gains from magnesium bicarbonate and potassium bicarbonate, and have a lot of days when I just feel solid and whole. I think the Energin was a part of it.

I didn't go through the whole thread but I think I was trying to encourage people to use supplements. I have extended the idea of orthomolecular medicine to food and supplements; if I can get a bioidentical molecule of B6, for example, from a supplement (with no excipients) as I can from a glass of milk, that's fine with me.

 

[Such_Saturation]

B6 in the evening can increase melatonin and maybe prolactin: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=4686&p=56702&hilit=prolactin#p56702

 

[honeybee]

B6 p5p still helps me with prolactin issues, i find it very effective. I take earlier in the day only when I need it. It started causing sleep issues for me at nite.

 

[docall18]

B6 p5p still helps me with prolactin issues, i find it very effective. I take earlier in the day only when I need it. It started causing sleep issues for me at nite.

I also take b6 for prolactin and libido. To stop the b6 causing insomnia etc you also need to take zinc. Nothing else could help me sleep when taking b6 except for zinc.

Apparently b6 and zinc have a synergistic relationship.

 

[honeybee]

B6 p5p still helps me with prolactin issues, i find it very effective. I take earlier in the day only when I need it. It started causing sleep issues for me at nite.

I also take b6 for prolactin and libido. To stop the b6 causing insomnia etc you also need to take zinc. Nothing else could help me sleep when taking b6 except for zinc.

Apparently b6 and zinc have a synergistic relationship.

Thanks for the tip. I go back and forth with zinc but I will definitely try to up my consumption.
Are you female or male? Also when did you take the b6 and the zinc? Together , am or pm
Thx

 

[uuy8778yyi]

B6 in the evening can increase melatonin and maybe prolactin: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=4686&p=56702&hilit=prolactin#p56702

woops

probably a bad idea to take it before bed then

 

[docall18]

B6 p5p still helps me with prolactin issues, i find it very effective. I take earlier in the day only when I need it. It started causing sleep issues for me at nite.

I also take b6 for prolactin and libido. To stop the b6 causing insomnia etc you also need to take zinc. Nothing else could help me sleep when taking b6 except for zinc.

Apparently b6 and zinc have a synergistic relationship.

Thanks for the tip. I go back and forth with zinc but I will definitely try to up my consumption.
Are you female or male? Also when did you take the b6 and the zinc? Together , am or pm
Thx

Male. I take the b6 earlier in the day and the zinc in the evening. The zinc helps puts me too sleep.

 

[Such_Saturation]

B6 in the evening can increase melatonin and maybe prolactin: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=4686&p=56702&hilit=prolactin#p56702

woops

probably a bad idea to take it before bed then

I don't know, it makes me remember all my dreams. It can be very therapeutic