Vision Changes With Creatine, Inositol

[AJA]

I’m not sure if anyone has run into this, however, I’ve noticed some changes in my vision when I take either Creatine or Inositol. It can even be a small dose of 500 mg of either. Higher dosage leads to more visual disturbance. I have poor vision in one eye and it seems that I becomes fatigued in this eye and have difficulty focusing when I take either of these substances. I have tried these on and off over the years as well as Alpha Lipoic Acid which tends to bring about a similar type of fatigue. I guess having the vision that I do makes me more sensitive to subtle changes that may not otherwise be as noticeable to the masses.

I’m wondering what the relationship is. Is it a Gaba, Acetylcholine or methyl issue? Do these substances lower dopamine?

Any insight would be appreciated.

 

[bk_]

Both creative and inositol exhibit water retention in vivo. Creatine in particular can be hard on people with poor renal function. Do you have hypertension?

You may also want to get a thorough eye exam if you haven’t already done so to rule out glaucoma, detached retina, or other causes which may be aggravated by possible water retention or hypertension.

 

[AJA]

The water retention aspect is interesting. I am fortunate to have good blood pressure and kidney function. Eye exams have been reassuring, just corrective lenses.

Gingko seems to help. It seems like the creatine is fatiguing the eye muscles in the weaker eye. Inositol does this too.
I can do away with the Inositol supplements, but was hoping to take a small dose of the creatine 3 times per week when lifting weights.

Diokine stated in another post:

“Creatine is a phosphate donor. Presence of phosphate donors (atp->adp, etc.,.) increases cholinergic sensitivity and fluency in tissues. This is partly due to increased generation of inositol phosphate and enhanced calcium channel signalling. So I think, roughly speaking, the anxiety induced by cholinergics is from a deficiency in calcium channel signalling which encourages high frequency oscillation, and limits long range coherence. So ingestion of creatine can be seen as enhancing the comprehension of your nervous system over your physiology”

Do I have a cholinergic sensitivity?

 

[bk_]

The water retention aspect is interesting. I am fortunate to have good blood pressure and kidney function. Eye exams have been reassuring, just corrective lenses.

Gingko seems to help. It seems like the creatine is fatiguing the eye muscles in the weaker eye. Inositol does this too.
I can do away with the Inositol supplements, but was hoping to take a small dose of the creatine 3 times per week when lifting weights.

Diokine stated in another post:

Creatine is a phosphate donor. Presence of phosphate donors (atp->adp, etc.,.) increases cholinergic sensitivity and fluency in tissues. This is partly due to increased generation of inositol phosphate and enhanced calcium channel signalling. So I think, roughly speaking, the anxiety induced by cholinergics is from a deficiency in calcium channel signalling which encourages high frequency oscillation, and limits long range coherence. So ingestion of creatine can be seen as enhancing the comprehension of your nervous system over your physiology.

Do I have a cholinergic sensitivity?

Interesting, thanks for sharing that. Cholinergic sensitivity is possible. The amount of phosphate obtained from 500mg of creatine or inositol is fairly low compared to dietary intake though it will act within the cell. I wonder how’s your daily calcium intake?

 

[AJA]

My last blood test had it in the normal range a few weeks back. I do not drink milk but eat cottage cheese, eggs, veggies, cheese, etc. I supplement with 400 mg of calcium at night with the same dose of magnesium. Maybe I need to adjust the calcium?
Also, I wonder if I need to increase caffeine as I do not take much in each day.

 

[Dr. B]

Interesting, thanks for sharing that. Cholinergic sensitivity is possible. The amount of phosphate obtained from 500mg of creatine or inositol is fairly low compared to dietary intake though it will act within the cell. I wonder how’s your daily calcium intake?

how much does creatine boost phosphate especially if youre using 5 grams creatine monohydrate? i heard it boosts phosphate levels, as well as it actually spares ingredients like choline and methionine which are normally used by the body to make creatine. From a Peat perspective, doesnt creatine seem like a bad supplement as it apparently boosts the amino acids and choline which Peat thinks you should be limiting? Peats conservative on choline and methionine, he supports getting the minimum but strongly advises against excess or supplementing

 

[AJA]

Thank you for the input. I am learning.​

I agree in terms of larger doses of creatine. Hoping to add up to one gram on weightlifting days as I am in my fifties. I would take it with a protein powder with lower tryptophan, methionine, etc.​

What seems to improve the vision issues are:

Bilberry,

DHEA

Ginko,

Andrographis

​

Beneficial effects of an Andrographis paniculata extract and andrographolide on cognitive functions in streptozotocin-induced diabetic rats​

Beneficial effects of an Andrographis paniculata extract and andrographolide on cognitive functions in streptozotocin-induced diabetic rats - PubMed

Context Andrographolide containing Andrographis paniculata (Burm. F.) Wall. Ex Nees (Acanthaceae) extracts is often used for treatments of diabetes and other inflammatory disorders commonly accompanying cognitive and other psychiatric disorders. Objective To compare the efficacies of a...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Results Acetylcholinesterase activity in pre-frontal cortex and hippocampus of diabetic rats was 2.1 and 2.6 times higher compared to nondiabetic rats.

While I do not have diabetes, it seems that I benefit from the Acetylcholine effects.


I wonder if there are better options?

 

[Dr. B]

Thank you for the input. I am learning.​

I agree in terms of larger doses of creatine. Hoping to add up to one gram on weightlifting days as I am in my fifties. I would take it with a protein powder with lower tryptophan, methionine, etc.​

What seems to improve the vision issues are:

Bilberry,

DHEA

Ginko,

Andrographis

​

Beneficial effects of an Andrographis paniculata extract and andrographolide on cognitive functions in streptozotocin-induced diabetic rats​

Beneficial effects of an Andrographis paniculata extract and andrographolide on cognitive functions in streptozotocin-induced diabetic rats - PubMed

Context Andrographolide containing Andrographis paniculata (Burm. F.) Wall. Ex Nees (Acanthaceae) extracts is often used for treatments of diabetes and other inflammatory disorders commonly accompanying cognitive and other psychiatric disorders. Objective To compare the efficacies of a...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Results Acetylcholinesterase activity in pre-frontal cortex and hippocampus of diabetic rats was 2.1 and 2.6 times higher compared to nondiabetic rats.

While I do not have diabetes, it seems that I benefit from the Acetylcholine effects.


I wonder if there are better options?

which protein powder has lower methionine and tryptophan?

 

[AJA]

Pea Protein

 

[AJA]

At least in my case....

Improvement with the pea protein and coffee before workouts.

Vision seems improved with taurine 2,000 mg at bedtime. Replaced the Inositol (lead to eye strain) with Taurine (does not).

Creatine seems to negatively impact my immune system and lead to eye strain and so, in my case, I will not use it.

 

[Dr. B]

At least in my case....

Improvement with the pea protein and coffee before workouts.

Vision seems improved with taurine 2,000 mg at bedtime. Replaced the Inositol (lead to eye strain) with Taurine (does not).

Creatine seems to negatively impact my immune system and lead to eye strain and so, in my case, I will not use it.

interesting, why do you think it causes that effect? I heard arginine, methionine, glycine, and choline are used to make creatine. so if you supplement it, perhaps it can create an excess of those things and essentially cause overmethylation symptoms due to the excess of choline and methionine?
taurine doesnt seem to help vision but seems to cause more fatigue, has an anti anxiety effect, also seems to have a constipating effect...

 

[AJA]

I have wondered about a methyl connection.

When I take the taurine at night it seems to help my vision the next day. I do not take it during the day.

Perhaps I am in need of the taurine and am more sensitive to the benefits on vision than others might be.

At any rate, I guess you have to go with what works. I will also go back to tribulus before weightlifting three times a week for the dht and muscle building effect since I am off the creatine.