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Virginia Livingston's Dietary Approach To Cancer

Discussion in 'Cancer, Degenerative Diseases' started by Amazoniac, Jul 5, 2018.

  1. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    I find Virginia's therapeutic dietary approach nowhere near as attentive as Gerson's. Maybe her neglect can be synthesized by her own words:

    "This diet is not intended as a treatment for cancer, but rather as a way of raising immunity and increasing the patient's to disease."​

    Since it's still interesting to know how she worked that part out, here it is (from 'The Conquest of Cancer'):

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    Tut.

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  2. OP
    Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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  3. OP
    Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    One more thing: chihuahuas don't intimidate me.

    Except when they growl, because they make me think that they won't be giving up a fight that easy. But then I comfort myself remembering that I'm wearing sweatpants, so I should be protected, they're small and so are their teeth.

    After a while the idea of rabies run through my head and also that I forgot to account for the canines, which can easily go through the pants.

    I drop the fighting mindset and think that perhaps it's better to pretend that I'm not a menace and try to start playing with them. It doesn't go as expected and they growl again and this time they bark. I wasn't expecting the barking part so I get scared but try to play it cool.

    The person next to me notices and starts mocking the fact that I fear chihuahuas. Then I confabulate traumas about having to fight 30 pitbulls alone and the person empathizes, closes the door to leave any dog away from me in attempt to spare me from reviving the memory again.
     
  4. Ella

    Ella Member

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    @Amazionic, she is talking about carotenes and mixing with liver. She states retinoids are well known for their importance in cancer prevention, however, no hint of liver being a rich source of retinol (preformed Vitamin A).

    She meticulously describes mixing the carrot juice with the liver powder in order for the liver enzymes to release the abscisic acid. No hint though, that liver is a rich source of retinol.

    From Wiki:
    Abscisic acid (ABA) is an isoprenoid plant hormone, which is synthesized in the plastidal 2-C-methyl-D-erythritol-4-phosphate (MEP) pathway; unlike the structurally related sesquiterpenes, which are formed from the mevalonic acid-derived precursor farnesyl diphosphate (FDP), the C15 backbone of ABA is formed after cleavage of C40 carotenoids in MEP. Zeaxanthin is the first committed ABA precursor; a series of enzyme-catalyzed epoxidations and isomerizations via violaxanthin, and final cleavage of the C40 carotenoid by a dioxygenation reaction yields the proximal ABA precursor, xanthoxin, which is then further oxidized to ABA. via abscisic aldehyde.[6]

    Does this mean, by focusing on obtaining preformed Vitamin A (retinol) rather than carotenoids, we don't make the abscisic acid, required for suppression of tumor growth?

    The liver powder is used as a source of NAD coenzyme which is required for the conversion of aldehydes to carboxylic acids. Retinol is converted to an aldehyde and NAD converts it to retinoic acid.

    Livingston's molecule of interest is not retinoic acid; it is abscisic acid which is formed from the carotenoids and can be obtained from plants and their blossoms. We would then expect to find good quantity of abscisic acid in honey.

    Need the Peat hotline to tease this one out.


    [​IMG]
    @Amazoniac, I don't understand about the chihuahuas and being frightened of barking dogs. You are not referring to members here? Your contribution's are highly valued. Forces me to revisit many ideas I have long forgotten and give deeper thought to.

    No-one understands why I am so passionate about my soil and why I invest so much time in making it the healthiest. I am ridiculed for my efforts. Well, reading this vindicates my efforts. I will be adding beekeeping to my efforts and harvesting apple and cherry blossoms to make lovely teas.

    I wonder if the chickens can be kept tumor free on a diet high in abscisic acids.

    Once again, thank you for your tireless and generous efforts.
     
  5. tara

    tara Member

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    I am in awe of your dedicated gardening. Good soil health seems to me to be the most basic - and increasingly scarce - foundation for health.

    When I think of the long term prehistory, history and prospects for our species, I have speculated about whether embarking on the iron age, and digging a great deal of metals out of the ground that have inevitably become dispersed in our soils and waters, might eventually turn out to have been a terminal error.
     
  6. OP
    Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Language barrier problem there.

    --
    Regarding the part on blood being more alkaline than normal, it can be due to the cells losing their integrity. Gerson wrote something related:


    Guru!

    - Occurrence, function and potential medicinal applications of the phytohormone abscisic acid in animals and humans - ScienceDirect

    "Stress signals, such as TNF-enikoid, RANTES or IL-8, released by peripheral blood mononuclear cells stimulate MSC to release ABA, which in turn induces MSC [mesenchymal cells of the stems] functions, including the release of cytokines that stimulate hematopoiesis, the production of immunomodulatory chemokines and cytokines, and the stimulation of MSC mobilization from the bone marrow. These [] indicate that ABA functions as a stress hormone in animals, similar to the drought stress response in plants [46]."

    "[In the vitroes,] ABA induced a significant increase in prostaglandin E2 (PGE2) production, induced chemokinesis or cell migration and stimulated the release of several cytokines known to mediate the trophic and immunomodulatory properties of MSC. In MSC, ABA production and release were stimulated by specific growth factors (e.g., bone morphogenetic protein-7), by inflammatory cytokines, and by lymphocyteconditioned medium. ABA is an autocrine stimulator of MSC function; stress signals, such as TNF-notonlinerightnow, RANTES, and IL-8, which are released by peripheral blood mononuclear cells, stimulate MSC to release ABA, which in turn induces ABA-related MSC functions."

    "ABA has structural similarities to TZDs and increased the expression of PPARg. ABA-induced glucose homeostasis was affected, macrophage infiltration, and the normalization of fasting blood glucose concentrations were abolished or significantly reduced in PPARg-deficient immune cells. These results indicated that PPARg expressed by immune cells is a key player in the mechanism of ABA’s anti-diabetic actions [43]. PPARg activation directly inhibits inflammation through multiple mechanisms including the reduction of MCP-1 and the corresponding migration of monocytes, making it very probable that the anti-inflammatory actions of PPAR g in cells other than adipocytes are involved in the insulin-sensing activities."

    "ABA was reported as an anti-cancer compound in a US patent issued to Dr. Virginia Livingston in 1976 [49]. The inventor reported that ABA ‘‘neutralized’’ the human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG), which is a negatively charged glycoprotein that reportedly coated cancer cells and prevented immune cells (the outer membranes are normally negatively charged) from getting close to attack the cancer cells, thereby facilitating anticancer immune responses. ABA treatment (1 or 10 mg/kg) substantially increased survival rates in C57BL/6J mice that were transplanted with tumor C1498 (a cancer that is lethal in mice within 10–15 days) at 14 days after transplantation, when compared to control mice. ABA did not have any toxic side effects in mice, even when administered at concentrations corresponding to approximately 10% mouse’s body weight. However, ABA cannot be administered during pregnancy due to the presence of hCG in the placenta [50], indicating that ABA may interfere with mammal [49,51] and insect reproduction [52]. ABA was also demonstrated to induce a positive membrane potential which causes adhesion of plant root tips to a negatively charged glass surface [53,54]."

    Everything she writes seems to be geared towards immunity:

    [49] Abscisic acid tablets and process - Patent US3958025A (dot and p and d and f)
    "Since fungi and some related microbes produce hormones similar to those of plants, it was proposed by the applicant (VWCL [☝]) that the microbic choriogonadotropin, a growth factor, might be opposed or neutralized by a growth retardant, A.A [abscisic acid]."
    "Because calcium signaling is a key regulator of apoptosis, changes in calcium distribution in the cell activate cellular cascades, which lead to cell death [61]. The calcium signaling pathway activated by ABA is similar to the pathway activated by certain types of chemotherapeutic agents used in cancer treatment, such as staurosporine, doxorubicin, tamoxifen, and etoposide. These drugs function by increasing oxidative stress and apoptosis rates in cancer cells, both of which are mediated by increasing [Ca2+]i [62]. The ABA induced hyperpolarization across the membrane and inhibited K+ and/or Na+ uptake, which modulates cellular water content and metabolic activities leading to cellular process of destruction and fragmentation [63]. Rakic et al. [64] reported that a ABA analog origamicin inhibits HCV replication through the inhibition of host protein folding, indicating that ABA or its analog may target protein folding."

    "Additionally, the jasmonates represent another group of plant growth regulators with some functions that are similar to ABA that can also suppress proliferation and induce apoptosis in certain mammalian cancer cells (lymphoblastic leukemia, prostate, breast and melanoma cancer cells). One of the most important characteristics of jasmonates, as with ABA, is that they do not affect normal human lymphocytes, in contrast to their strong effects on lymphoblastic leukemia cells, even within a mixed population of normal and lymphoblastic leukemic cells [65, for reviews 66, 67]. The plant signaling molecular salicylic acid inhibited the growth and proliferation, and induced apoptosis of cancer cells [65,68,69]. Cytokinins delay or prevent the onset of age-related changes in human skin fibroblasts [70] and protect the NA and proteins from oxidative damage [71–73].

    Unlike some chemotherapeutic agents which act as cell killers, growth regulators such as ABA and the jasmonates regulate diseased cells by facilitating normal growth and differentiation, stimulating the immune system in response to environmental stresses or diseases, or inducing cancer cells to undergo apoptosis without significant toxic effects on normal cells. The function and potential application of plant growth regulators towards animal and human diseases are not limited to ABA. Broad interactions and cross functions of bioactive substances between plants and animals are anticipated."
    I guess the path and the way that you described is for plants. But humans can produce it as vvcll:

    - Abscisic Acid: A Novel Nutraceutical for Glycemic Control

    "In the human body, ABA naturally originates from dietary sources and endogenous production through the carotenoid biogenesis pathway. ABA was first described in the brain of pigs and rats (8). The fact that animals fed a synthetic, ABA-free diet had ABA levels even higher than those of controls fed a vegetable diet was taken as an indirect proof that ABA was endogenously produced. To this point, a more recent observation allows the conclusion that ABA is indeed an endogenously produced signaling molecule: plasma ABA (ABAp) levels increase significantly in healthy humans after an (ABA-free) glucose load (9). On the one hand, this observation points to ABA as being endogenously synthesized; plus it suggests a role for ABA in the physiological response to glucose intake, a role until then shared by insulin and by the incretin glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1)."

    Abscisic Acid: A Novel Nutraceutical for Glycemic Control

    Regarding the dogs, it's not an attack to anyone, it's just a Wilhelm Reich here and there but other than that chihuahuas can sense our fear and have none, so don't try to trick them, they know what's up.

    Yeah, Gerson has an entire chapter in his book devoted to the importance of soil quality.

    I think this is it:
    - Life of: Broiler chickens

    For the first time, thank you for the kind words.
     
  7. burtlancast

    burtlancast Member

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    And the elephant in the room is...

    "We acidify the blood and urine, since a state of imbalance toward the alkaline side is known to exist in tumor patients"

    Which is exactly what Andre Gernez explained and based his fasting prevention therapy upon: tissue (not blood !) acidosis kills young newly formed tumor cells.

    But this is exactly the contrary of what everybody says in the mainstream alternative health: "Alkalize for health".
     
  8. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Well, don't forget the beloved carrot juice. :ss2
     
  9. Obi-wan

    Obi-wan Member

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    IMO, Intracellular Ph of a cancer cell is alkaline due to sodium, calcium and bulk water. Extra cellular Ph is acidic due to high Lactic acid build up due to high Pyruvate buildup. On another thread we talked about apple cider vinager and baking soda which when combined produces sodium and potassium acetate and carbon dioxide. The carbon dioxide will remove the Lactic acid, the potassium acetate will create a proper electric potential (Ted from Bangkok) and converts to acetyl-CoA intracellular which operates the citric acid cycle and produces ATP and more carbon dioxide. This creates proper cellular metabolism and fixes the defective metabolism of a cancer cell over time. I have been experimenting with ACV/BS using Ph paper on urine to determine the amount of BS (now 1/4 teaspoon with 2 tablespoons of ACV). I have also been experimenting with frequency (now 1 to 2 times per day) Keeping this in mind "Pyruvate dehydrogenase is inhibited when one or more of the three following ratios are increased: ATP/ADP, NADH/NAD+ and acetyl-CoA/CoA." -Wikipedia.
     
  10. Jennifer

    Jennifer Member

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    I don't think this is in disagreement with what some in the alternative health community are suggesting. I think it depends on what a person believes a cancer cell to be. If they think it's simply a metabolically dysfunctional cell due to excess/accumulated acids in the body, tissue acidosis killing young, newly formed dysfunctional cells sounds accurate but not ideal. I agree with Obi-wan about fixing the metabolism of a "cancer" cell, not killing it and so in that regard, highly acidic approaches such as chemo and radiation may be counterproductive. Add to that, do we really know for certain that such treatments only destroy cancer cells? I took a look at Gernez's dietary recommendations and it seems his are similar to those who promote(d) an "alkalizing" approach — fruit, veggies, low in meat, low calorie/fasting etc.?
     
  11. OP
    Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Health Body (misc. files related to health, including Gerson's book without the cases in different formats)

    Considering the importance of vitamin A in cancer and how challenging it can be to restore its function when the person has reached a generalized depleted state, I guess people should be more careful with red light to avoid draining its reserves.
     
  12. OP
    Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Oxidative Conversion of Carotenoids to Retinoids and Other Products (!)

    "The oxidative metabolites of carotenoids work as essential molecules in a wide variety of living organisms. Carotenoids are converted to biologically active products such as abscisic acid, trisporic acid, and retinoic acid in plants, fungi, and animals, respectively."​

    It's curious how people were able to handle excess carotenes in some of these therapeutic approaches without problems. In Gerson's program, the high thyroid dosages were only at the beginning of the treatment to use it as explanation for not having issues:

    "Thyroid - Dosage (first 3-4 weeks only): 5x 1 grain daily. In the example case on page 235, the dosage was reduced to 3x 1 grain for 8 weeks, then 3x 1/2 grain for 14 weeks. More frequent adjustments by the physician are common (pp. 205, 206, 235, 246, 409). Tachycardia (pulse over 120) may indicate overdosage. Discontinue temporarily during menses."

    A Cancer Therapy By Max Gerson - Selected Parts

    Daily injections of B12 were probably supportive.

    And perhaps plain iodine also played a role (once in the body as well):

    "Lugol's solution (half-strength) - dosage (first 3-4 weeks ONLY): 3 drops in each of 6 orange- and carrot/apple-juices (6x3 daily). Thereafter, the physician will normally reduce the dosage to 6x1 for 8 weeks, and 3x1 for the duration of treatment. DO NOT add to liver- or green-juice (pp.32, 205, 235, 246,409)."​

    Factors Influencing the Chemical Stability of Carotenoids in Foods

    "Iodine is a milder oxidizing agent than ferric chloride (Jeevarajan et al., 1996), yet, it has been found to degrade 8′-apo-beta-caroten-8′-al, 7′-apo-7′,7′-di-cyano-beta-carotene, ethyl 8′-apo-beta-caroten-8′-oate, canthaxanthin (Konovalova et al., 2000) and beta-carotene to cation radicals as determined by UV-vis and EPR spectroscopy (Konovalova et al., 2000)."​

    Carotenoid cation radicals produced by the interaction of carotenoids with iodine

    --
    Carotenoids and Their Isomers: Color Pigments in Fruits and Vegetables