[VIDEO] Game Changers DEBUNKED By More Doctors

[boris]

Don't know what products your referring to but the beyond meat patty has non of that crap you mention. Just goole beyond meat patty ingredients.
What makes you think they don't have to label every ingredient? I'm pretty sure they have to on the packaging, which I've looked at... unless you have different information on that?

Just google beyond meat titanium dioxide and beyond meat carrageenan. The products that use it will show up.

 

[Ritchie]

What is listed is not the same as the actual ingredients. Our laws allow to add a bunch of stuff without disclosing if it is under a certain amount.

They use toxic gums in their other products, what stops them from using it in the burger too?

Well I don't know, you're the one making the claim. I assume the ingredients listed on the package are the ingredients they use, and non of that stuff you mention is on there. If you have other info i'm all ears, if not I will assume that is what is in there. Reasonable?

Just google beyond meat titanium dioxide and beyond meat carrageenan. The products that use it will show up.

I just googled it and nothing came up except for a bunch of opinions.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I'm finding the anti plant based/vegan sentiment on this forum quite amusing and very misguided, surely you understand the irony of posting a video like that on the Ray Peat forum. Ray Peat literally advocates for getting the bulk of nutritional requirements (I think Ray suggests at least 60%) from plant sources (sugar cane, fruit juice, sweet ripe fruits, jams, potatoes, refined sugar, chocolate, coffee, coca cola, cocoa, etc). Further, Ray advocates eating raw carrots daily for the insoluble fibre and antimicrobial properties, well cooked mushrooms regularly, cooked kale and other leafy green broths which he say he has at least once a week, coconut oil. Ray obviously advocates for a lot of dairy as well, minimal muscle meat, some gelatinous cuts of meat well cooked and some organ meat. This is a diet that is so far from what that video discusses. Further, Ray Peat has said many times that a well planned vegan diet in line with his principles is more than suitable for health and high metabolism, ticking all the boxes required. Perhaps you are little confused about what the fundamental principles of Ray Peat's nutritional paradigm are? This anti vegan, anti plant based, "vegan agenda" type sentiment and the adversity to a plant based diet is kinda ignorant in the context of Ray Peat and his nutritional physiological framework and philosophy. Ideology and nutritional dogma is a waste of time and energy, better to look at the rationale and the physiology. What is indicated and what is not. I mean at the end of the day, that's what Peat is all about.

For more info see: Peat's Surprising Response To My Email. A "Ray Peat Vegan" Is Possible

The term "Plant Based" may be ill defined, but vegan is not. Vegan means no animal based foods, period. It's an extreme dietary intervention. Criticism of an extreme diet with a very poor track record in humans isn't ignorant, it's very well informed.

And I am certainly aware of what Peat's nutritional principles are, and they include the fact that nutrition from animal foods should be significantly higher than zero percent of the diet.

 

[Ritchie]

The term "Plant Based" may be ill defined, but vegan is not. Vegan means no animal based foods, period. It's an extreme dietary intervention. Criticism of an extreme diet with a very poor track record in humans isn't ignorant, it's very well informed.

And I am certainly aware of what Peat's nutritional principles are, and they include the fact that nutrition from animal foods should be significantly higher than zero percent of the diet.

Ok, but Peat has specifically said that a vegan diet (i.e. one absent of animal products) is suitable for health and good metabolism. Soooo... Plus there isn't a bad track record. There are examples of vegan populations that have been studied and done very well. We certainly do know that the typical omnivorous diet doesn't have a good track record with all the disease and cancer we are seeing in the modern era, that isn't coming from a vegan diet.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Ok, but Peat has specifically said that a vegan diet (i.e. one absent of animal products) is suitable for health and good metabolism. Soooo... Plus there isn't a bad track record. There are examples of vegan populations that have been studied and done very well. We certainly do know that the typical omnivorous diet doesn't have a good track record with all the disease and cancer we are seeing in the modern era, that isn't coming from a vegan diet.

Peat said once that it might be theoretically possible to construct a decent vegan diet around some of his principles when directly asked. You are misconstruing an answer to a question, and he has never recommended such a diet in his writings or newsletters.

As for those "studies" of vegan populations, you should post them.

 

[boris]

I just googled it and nothing came up except for a bunch of opinions.

titanium dioxide

Gum arabic in the burger

The beyond beast burger had carrageenan listed, fair enough it's discontinued.

In Europe at least, NOT all ingredients have to be listed if they are under a certain amount. Maybe that's different for the USA but I highly doubt it.

 

[tankasnowgod]

A McDonalds beef patty should be healthier than any Beyond Meat, Some of their products contain soy, titanium dioxide, carrageenan. Don‘t forget the PUFA.

They don‘t have to label every ingredient. The beyond burger doesn‘t have carrageenan listed like their other Beyond products do, but it could just mean that they are under the legal limit and aren‘t obliged to list it.

And don't forget Canola Oil, which is listed on the ingredients.

 

[Ritchie]

Peat said once that it might be theoretically possible to construct a decent vegan diet around some of his principles when directly asked. You are misconstruing an answer to a question, and he has never recommended such a diet in his writings or newsletters.

As for those "studies" of vegan populations, you should post them.

When did I say he recommends the diet in his writings and newsletters? I said he has clearly stated multiple times, on the radio show as well, that a well constructed vegan diet in line with his principles would be fine and good for health and achieving optimal metabolism. That's all I'm saying here. Aside from Peat there is mountains of evidence showing the benefits of a plant based diet devoid of animal products. Just look into it a bit.
As far as the studies of the vegan populations...
Beyond meatless, the health effects of vegan diets: findings from the Adventist cohorts. - PubMed - NCBI
There is one but there are many more well conducted studies showing the long term benefits.. If you would like me to post more I can but I'll do it tomorrow.

 

[tankasnowgod]

When did I say he recommends the diet in his writings and newsletters? I said he has clearly stated multiple times, on the radio show as well, that a well constructed vegan diet in line with his principles would be fine and good for health and achieving optimal metabolism. That's all I'm saying here.

And yet, Peat didn't even say that in the thread you linked. He said nothing about "good health" or "achieving optimal metabolism," simply that achieving adequate amino acid intake would be possible.

 

[tankasnowgod]

As far as the studies of the vegan populations...
Beyond meatless, the health effects of vegan diets: findings from the Adventist cohorts. - PubMed - NCBI
There is one but there are many more well conducted studies showing the long term benefits.. If you would like me to post more I can but I'll do it tomorrow.

I'll have to take a look at this meta analysis a little later, but I believe this is the study referenced by Anthony Colpo where the omnivorous group had the best health outcomes, despite the claims of the title and abstract.

 

[Sativa]

there is mountains of evidence showing the benefits of a plant based diet devoid of animal products.

I rather like my strategic use of organic egg yolks, organic gelatin & occasional organic butter for the important nutrients these foods provide.
A vegan's alternative to cholesterol might be Squalane (derived from olive oil) but as for the other important fat soluble nutrients that egg/butter provide, a vegan is at a loss.

I don't see the point in restricting oneself from animal products anyway.
Ideological approaches, like Veganism, seem mildly moronic & demonstrative of self-importance. (but that's just my opinion)

 

[Jennifer]

When did I say he recommends the diet in his writings and newsletters? I said he has clearly stated multiple times, on the radio show as well, that a well constructed vegan diet in line with his principles would be fine and good for health and achieving optimal metabolism. That's all I'm saying here. Aside from Peat there is mountains of evidence showing the benefits of a plant based diet devoid of animal products. Just look into it a bit.
As far as the studies of the vegan populations...
Beyond meatless, the health effects of vegan diets: findings from the Adventist cohorts. - PubMed - NCBI
There is one but there are many more well conducted studies showing the long term benefits.. If you would like me to post more I can but I'll do it tomorrow.

We have to keep in mind with these Adventist studies that when they say vegetarian, they're including pescatarians in that so if we're going by vegan studies, pescatarians were found to be healthier than vegans:

Vegetarian dietary patterns and mortality in Adventist Health Study 2. - PubMed - NCBI

But may I ask, are you still supplementing your diet with shellfish and if so, why when you feel a vegan diet is healthy/adequate?

 

[MatheusPN]

I'd like to see how a vegan Peat diet would look like. Ray talks about having a minimum of 80g of protein per day. What would be these protein sources that provides for vitamin b12, for vitamins A (not beta carotene as some people don't convert carotene well)? How can a good calcium:phosphate ratio be achieved? Where can you get enough gelatin from plants, and how can you get sources of protein that are free from lectins and anti-nutrients?

It's a mine field for a starting vegan and vegetarian. Go to any health food store and pretty much all protein sources aren't processed well enough (e. g. sprouting) to remove anti-nutrients. Eat those veggie bars and you're toast.

I wonder how well the makers of Beyond Meat take all these under consideration in making their product. Do they put a lot of binders and emulsifiers (e.g. carageenan, locust bean, guar gum) to enhance texture and taste at the expense of good digestibility?

It's one thing saying it can be done and another actually living it correctly. If that can be done, let's first see it done on our pet dogs and cats and koi.

I did more than 4 lab tests, including B12 and A, they came in the upper range, being vegan

 

[boris]

@MatheusPN Since how long ago are you vegan?

 

[MatheusPN]

@MatheusPN Since how long ago are you vegan?

Vegan amid 17.5 to 21,8 years | vegetarian 12 to 17.5 | different types of vegetarian 11.5 to 12 years. I think I ain't vegan for 5 months now...

 

[boris]

Vitamin B12 Deficiency - Disorders of Nutrition - MSD Manual Consumer Version
"Unlike most other vitamins, B12 is stored in substantial amounts, mainly in the liver, until it is needed by the body. If a person stops consuming the vitamin, the body’s stores of this vitamin usually take about 3 to 5 years to exhaust."

 

[yerrag]

Yeah soaking them for a bit over a day and they have little sprouts popping out. Although that sprouted sounds great, what's the brand and did you get it online?

I bought it in an agricultural show in Manila. I tried to see if it was available online but it wasn't.

 

[Ritchie]

And yet, Peat didn't even say that in the thread you linked. He said nothing about "good health" or "achieving optimal metabolism," simply that achieving adequate amino acid intake would be possible.

Ok mate. What i'm saying is Peat is confirming he sees no issues with a well conducted plant based/vegan diet as far as his understanding of physiology and nutrition paradigm goes. There are other examples on the radio show of him talking about this. From there you have to "perceive, think, act" and find out for yourself based on all the research and evidence out there and your own experimentation. At this point I have been plant based for 3 years, after eating 3 years on a classic Peat style diet of dairy, limited muscle meat, gelatinous cuts like oxtail soup, some liver once a week, orange juice, fresh sweet juicy fruits, coffee, etc. I can say this is without a doubt the best i've felt, energy wise, sleep wise, body compositions wise, skin and looks wise, training wise, strength wise. I apply Peat principles to the plant based diet and it is working great. You must understand that outside of the Peat sphere there is just so much well conducted controlled studies showing the health benefits of a plant based diet and the various negatives of dairy and meat consumption. And if you just logically apply Peat's paradigm of achieving high metabolism and good health by removing the things that hinder that and providing the things that aid it of high sugar, high energy, low inflamatory aminos, low PUFA, low mammalian estrogens, low IGF-1, low iron, etc it makes a lot of sense. But man you do you, not trying to convince you to adopt a vegan diet, just think the anti-vegan sentiment on this forum is ill informed and misguided and that's point i'm making. Just chill on the anti vegan stuff, as much as you don't want to hear it a plant based diet is reasonable, rationale and indicated and is working for many, so why the hate?

 

[Ritchie]

I'll have to take a look at this meta analysis a little later, but I believe this is the study referenced by Anthony Colpo where the omnivorous group had the best health outcomes, despite the claims of the title and abstract.

Yeah the pescatarians did a tiny bit better in the biomarkers but only a small amount, the vegans came a close second, then the vegetarians then the meat eaters. Everything was controlled for, but it clearly shows what you asked.. That a vegan diet long term is compatible with good health. which was in response to you when you asked...

As for those "studies" of vegan populations, you should post them.

 

[Ritchie]

We have to keep in mind with these Adventist studies that when they say vegetarian, they're including pescatarians in that so if we're going by vegan studies, pescatarians were found to be healthier than vegans:

Vegetarian dietary patterns and mortality in Adventist Health Study 2. - PubMed - NCBI

But may I ask, are you still supplementing your diet with shellfish and if so, why when you feel a vegan diet is healthy/adequate?

Yeah the pescatarians did slightly better than the vegans, but only slightly. The point is this is a long term study showing the benefits and lack of negatives with eating a vegan diet.

And yes to answer your question, I do eat some bivalves (oysters and mussels), but I don't think they are necessary.. You can always supplement with b12, which is the main reason I eat them. I go periods without them too.