[VIDEO] Game Changers DEBUNKED By More Doctors

[A.D.]

It's interesting to see how much vegan propaganda can legally be squeezed into a film.

This is a more advanced Debunking video that just came out today.



Featured experts: Paul Saladino, MD Shawn Baker, MD Dr. Georgia Ede, PhD Dr. Jaime Seeman, MD Dr. Garbielle Lyon, DO Dr. Bill Schindler Dr. Ryan Lowery, PhD Dr. Jacob Wilson, PhD, CSCS*D Alyse Parker Tim Shieff Brian Sanders Swayze "Unnnatural Vegan" Pete Evans Mark Sisson Zach Bitter Chris Kresser, M.S., L.Ac Stan Efferding Shawn Wells, MPH, LDN, RD Robert Sikes

 

[yerrag]

It's generally good as far as the superiority of animal protein vs. plant-based protein goes for our food.

But it goes too far and says in an earlier part of the video that the minerals in leaves aren't absorbed because of oxalates. True, except that it fails to mention that cooking green leaves thoroughly inactivates the oxalates so that minerals such as calcium and magnesium can be absorbed by the body.

At 55 minutes, it starts to talk ketogetonic and goes as far as saying that the glycerol backbones is turned into glucose through gluconeogenesis. I don't know if this is true, as I understood that it is the glucogenic amino acids that can be turned into glucose. Nevertheless, it's belittling sugar intake and talks about ketones from fat as superior to glucose for the brain. Once again, we see another example of a good story carried too far as debunking plant story gets too far that it itself needs to be debunked.

 

[Herbie]

Lol they blame cheap carbs for poor people being obese but it also the cheap vegetable oils. Long way to go with the research boys.

This game changes is childish bull**** made by a bunch of losers.

 

[yerrag]

They're lumping glucose into their narrative of plants as bad because glucose sources are plant based. Very ideological in their approach to science. Throwing the baby away with the bath water.

I also think it's plain stupid they would suggest that glucose is not needed because the body can make glucose out of fats and protein. Hello? Knock, knock. Is anyone home (as I knock their on their thick skull)?

Why do they need to let the body do the conversion of protein and fats to sugar and involve the body in doing wasteful work. Besides, how much is carbs and how much is fat and protein? From an economic perspective, these are truly the most wasteful people on earth.

 

[Ritchie]

I'm finding the anti plant based/vegan sentiment on this forum quite amusing and very misguided, surely you understand the irony of posting a video like that on the Ray Peat forum. Ray Peat literally advocates for getting the bulk of nutritional requirements (I think Ray suggests at least 60%) from plant sources (sugar cane, fruit juice, sweet ripe fruits, jams, potatoes, refined sugar, chocolate, coffee, coca cola, cocoa, etc). Further, Ray advocates eating raw carrots daily for the insoluble fibre and antimicrobial properties, well cooked mushrooms regularly, cooked kale and other leafy green broths which he say he has at least once a week, coconut oil. Ray obviously advocates for a lot of dairy as well, minimal muscle meat, some gelatinous cuts of meat well cooked and some organ meat. This is a diet that is so far from what that video discusses. Further, Ray Peat has said many times that a well planned vegan diet in line with his principles is more than suitable for health and high metabolism, ticking all the boxes required. Perhaps you are little confused about what the fundamental principles of Ray Peat's nutritional paradigm are? This anti vegan, anti plant based, "vegan agenda" type sentiment and the adversity to a plant based diet is kinda ignorant in the context of Ray Peat and his nutritional physiological framework and philosophy. Ideology and nutritional dogma is a waste of time and energy, better to look at the rationale and the physiology. What is indicated and what is not. I mean at the end of the day, that's what Peat is all about.

For more info see: Peat's Surprising Response To My Email. A "Ray Peat Vegan" Is Possible

 

[yerrag]

I'd like to see how a vegan Peat diet would look like. Ray talks about having a minimum of 80g of protein per day. What would be these protein sources that provides for vitamin b12, for vitamins A (not beta carotene as some people don't convert carotene well)? How can a good calcium:phosphate ratio be achieved? Where can you get enough gelatin from plants, and how can you get sources of protein that are free from lectins and anti-nutrients?

It's a mine field for a starting vegan and vegetarian. Go to any health food store and pretty much all protein sources aren't processed well enough (e. g. sprouting) to remove anti-nutrients. Eat those veggie bars and you're toast.

I wonder how well the makers of Beyond Meat take all these under consideration in making their product. Do they put a lot of binders and emulsifiers (e.g. carageenan, locust bean, guar gum) to enhance texture and taste at the expense of good digestibility?

It's one thing saying it can be done and another actually living it correctly. If that can be done, let's first see it done on our pet dogs and cats and koi.

 

[Ritchie]

I'd like to see how a vegan Peat diet would look like. Ray talks about having a minimum of 80g of protein per day. What would be these protein sources that provides for vitamin b12, for vitamins A (not beta carotene as some people don't convert carotene well)? How can a good calcium:phosphate ratio be achieved? Where can you get enough gelatin from plants, and how can you get sources of protein that are free from lectins and anti-nutrients?

It's a mine field for a starting vegan and vegetarian. Go to any health food store and pretty much all protein sources aren't processed well enough (e. g. sprouting) to remove anti-nutrients. Eat those veggie bars and you're toast.

I wonder how well the makers of Beyond Meat take all these under consideration in making their product. Do they put a lot of binders and emulsifiers (e.g. carageenan, locust bean, guar gum) to enhance texture and taste at the expense of good digestibility?

It's one thing saying it can be done and another actually living it correctly. If that can be done, let's first see it done on our pet dogs and cats and koi.

It can be done, have a look through that thread linked above where Peat literally says it can. I'm doing it and thriving, never felt better particularly in the context of the Peat paradigm. And i've been at this Peat thing for a minute now (discovered him about 6 years ago, 3 years of which I was eating dairy and meat). As far as B12 goes, it can be easily supplemented and if that is not wanted then just add oysters or mussels once a week. I'm fine with beta carotene conversion, I think a lack of conversion is quite rare but I guess in that case it maybe worth supplementing. Although there are a lot of issues with preformed vit a (just do a search on this forum and there is a massive thread about it). When converting beta carotene the body has its own checks and balances. As far as lectins and anti nutrients, if the foods are well prepared there is nothing to be concerned about. For example well prepared (soaked, sprouted, well cooked) lentils and legumes are great sources of protein. Potatoes have exceptionally high quality protein as well, as are well cooked mushrooms. Peat has said as well that he thinks the assessment of protein levels of plant foods such as potatoes, mushrooms and fruits is based on old science and he believes them to be far higher than officially stated. Jury is still out on that one though. If protein supplementation is desired it's easy to get sprouted hemp protein, sprouted rice protein, sprouted pea protein. All of which have very good amino acid profiles (low tryptophan, low methionine, low cysteine, high glycine).

As far as beyond meat goes, it's not a health food. Do you concern yourself equally with beef patties from mc donalds or chicken wings from KFC?

 

[yerrag]

It can be done, have a look through that thread linked above where Peat literally says it can. I'm doing it and thriving, never felt better particularly in the context of the Peat paradigm. B12 can be easily supplemented and if that is not wanted then just add oysters or mussels once a week. I'm fine with beta carotene conversion, I think a lack of conversion is quite rare but I guess in that case it maybe worth supplementing. Although there are a lot of issues with preformed vit a (just do a search on this forum and there is a massive thread about it). When converting beta carotene the body has its own checks and balances. As far as lectins and anti nutrients, if the foods are well prepared there is nothing to be concerned about. For example well prepared (soaked, sprouted, well cooked) lentils and legumes are great sources of protein. Potatoes have exceptionally high quality protein as well, as are well cooked mushrooms. Peat has said as well that he thinks the assessment of protein levels of plant foods such as potatoes, mushrooms and fruits is based on old science and he believes them to be far higher than officially stated. Jury is still out on that one though. If protein supplementation is desired it's easy to get sprouted hemp protein, sprouted rice protein, sprouted pea protein. All of which have very good amino acid profiles (low tryptophan, low methionine, low cysteine, high glycine).

As far as beyond meat goes, it's not a health food. Do you concern yourself equally with beef patties from mc donalds or chicken wings from KFC?

I've used a bean sprouter before. I've eaten sprouted beans also - mung, kidney, navy, black, garbanzos or chick peas. I've not gone full vegan but I did that to reduce my dependence on meat. Until Ray Peat. He said sprouting isn't enough to remove all the anti-nutrients. It was then that I decided to call it quits. It's a lot of work actually, or if not, it's added work. Cooking is the easy part. The hard part is the preparation. It doesn't make it any easier when you have to do the sprouting yourself, even with a nice sprouting machine from Taiwan. Which is why I talk about the health food stores not selling sprouted beans (except for mung bean sprouts, and alfalfa). Why is that? Is there no business case for it? Despite there being legions of vegans around?

If the vegan industry wants people to turn vegan, why are they failing so miserably on this aspect of it, and making it easy for vegan people to fall into a poor lifestyle trap? Your saying you can doesn't mean everyone can easily do what you're doing. I read that link. It doesn't really answer my question. The vegan people ought to put some some marketing smarts among their ranks who can truly address the issues facing vegan lifestyle practitioners. Failing that, they're not going to make a difference when their members are falling off the rolls. It's likely the movers in the vegan community don't know their science, and instead of using guilt to make their case, they should make a compelling case that the science is right, and that it's proven by very successful members in their community. And by that I mean they have credible claims, and not whitewashed ones.

 

[yerrag]

As far as beyond meat goes, it's not a health food. Do you concern yourself equally with beef patties from mc donalds or chicken wings from KFC?

I like an occasional burger, and I miss In-N-Out for the way they prepare their burgers. Not McDonalds, nor KFC's watered-down way of preparing their chicken and gravy, a far cry from how Colonel Sanders used to make it.

Thanks for confirming for me my skepticism on Beyond Meat. It's another money grab with nothing more but pandering to idiots with money to burn.

 

[Ritchie]

I've used a bean sprouter before. I've eaten sprouted beans also - mung, kidney, navy, black, garbanzos or chick peas. I've not gone full vegan but I did that to reduce my dependence on meat. Until Ray Peat. He said sprouting isn't enough to remove all the anti-nutrients. It was then that I decided to call it quits. It's a lot of work actually, or if not, it's added work. Cooking is the easy part. The hard part is the preparation. It doesn't make it any easier when you have to do the sprouting yourself, even with a nice sprouting machine from Taiwan. Which is why I talk about the health food stores not selling sprouted beans (except for mung bean sprouts, and alfalfa). Why is that? Is there no business case for it? Despite there being legions of vegans around?

I don't find it difficult at all, I simply soak the beans or lentils in water and then cook them well. If I soak them for over a day they sprout, no need for a specific sprouter and no work, they do it all themselves. I often cook a heap with mushrooms, salt, coconut oil, spices and herbs for flavour and then portion it up in glass containers and freeze, defrosting as needed.
As far as the business side of it, it's so easy just to buy fresh dry beans/legumes and soak them yourself. They are so cheap, cheapest foods on the planet and it is easy to get organic. I do agree that canned sprouted long cooked beans would be great, perhaps a business idea to look into haha

If the vegan industry wants people to turn vegan, why are they failing so miserably on this aspect of it, and making it easy for vegan people to fall into a poor lifestyle trap? Your saying you can doesn't mean everyone can easily do what you're doing. I read that link. It doesn't really answer my question. The vegan people ought to put some some marketing smarts among their ranks who can truly address the issues facing vegan lifestyle practitioners. Failing that, they're not going to make a difference when their members are falling off the rolls. It's likely the movers in the vegan community don't know their science, and instead of using guilt to make their case, they should make a compelling case that the science is right, and that it's proven by very successful members in their community. And by that I mean they have credible claims, and not whitewashed ones.

I agree there is a lack of understanding when it comes to plant based in the general community, the anti sugar - pro PUFA sentiment doesn't help although that is changing and quickly. But not arguing with any of what you say here.

 

[Ritchie]

I like an occasional burger, and I miss In-N-Out for the way they prepare their burgers. Not McDonalds, nor KFC's watered-down way of preparing their chicken and gravy, a far cry from how Colonel Sanders used to make it.

Thanks for confirming for me my skepticism on Beyond Meat. It's another money grab with nothing more but pandering to idiots with money to burn.

Look the ingredients are actually quite decent: pea protein, coconut oil, rice protein, cocoa butter, mung bean protein, potato, salt, vinegar, lemon juice, herbs and spices... All that is actually quite Peaty. But then they go and add canola oil as an ingredient and stuff it all up haha.. So I wouldn't say it is anywhere near as bad as mc donalds or kfc, but it is a decent product as a plant based alternative to a meat patty. And I think the product will continue to evolve.

Point that I was making is that I just think if you go to a fast food joint and get a burger in general, you can't expect to be eating health food. More than likely the oil they fry the patty in will be vege oil for starters, thats not including what they put in the mass produced sauces, the crap that would be in the cheeses, the quality of the meat and where it is coming from etc

 

[yerrag]

I don't find it difficult at all, I simply soak the beans or lentils in water and then cook them well. If I soak them for over a day they sprout, no need for a specific sprouter and no work, they do it all themselves. I often cook a heap with mushrooms, salt, coconut oil, spices and herbs for flavour and then portion it up in glass containers and freeze, defrosting as needed.

Great that you've been able to make your beans tasty. I haven't. Not that it's not possible, as I like the Persian soups that have plenty beans in them and how they have a very flavorful blend of spices in them. Same thing with how the gypsies in Spain make their dishes with beans -awesome flavorful dishes. It would be ideal if they can tell me they sprouted the beans for 3 days at least. On that topic, I don't know how you could get your beans to sprout in one day. Perhaps it's because its always soaked. My sprouter doesn't allow the beans to soak all day. On top of the bed where the beans lay is a catch basin that accumulates water that is dripped from an overhead tank, the flow rate is controlled by adjusting a drip ball valve. Once the catch basin has enough water, it causes the water to spill over to the beans. The water flows through the bed, the beans get wetted again, and the beans don't get that awful smell from being soaked all day. Doing it this way, it takes 3 days at least for most of the beans to get to where sprouting occurs, and not all beans sprout at the same time. Except for mung beans.

As far as the business side of it, it's so easy just to buy fresh dry beans/legumes and soak them yourself. They are so cheap, cheapest foods on the planet and it is easy to get organic. I do agree that canned sprouted long cooked beans would be great, perhaps a business idea to look into haha

They are cheap indeed. Perhaps you can start making them and sell them to this forum as a start. Maybe all flavored and all. Just heat and serve just like you'd do on the range on a campfire with regular pork and beans.

Look the ingredients are actually quite decent: pea protein, coconut oil, rice protein, cocoa butter, mung bean protein, potato, salt, vinegar, lemon juice, herbs and spices... All that is actually quite Peaty. But then they go and add canola oil as an ingredient and stuff it all up haha.. So I wouldn't say it is anywhere near as bad as mc donalds or kfc, but it is a decent product as a plant based alternative to a meat patty. And I think the product will continue to evolve.

They look good, but did they sprout the pea and mung beans enough? You didn't mention the texture enhancers, or did they omit those. I imagine they'd have stabilizers and emulsifiers and thickeners in there as well. Homemade burgers would have eggs and bread added for the texture.

They've come a long way from using TVP, and just not having soy is already a big improvement. And using canola is taking the path of least resistance and not wanting to upset the crowd that's hypnotized by the propaganda. Just like Democrat vloggers like Jimmy Dore wouldn't want to upset the climate change crowd, even as I believe they're smart enough personally not to fall for the inanity of man-made climate change.

Point that I was making is that I just think if you go to a fast food joint and get a burger in general, you can't expect to be eating health food. More than likely the oil they fry the patty in will be vege oil for starters, thats not including what they put in the mass produced sauces, the crap that would be in the cheeses, the quality of the meat and where it is coming from etc

It's just as in selling to the masses. Don't want to build it to perfection, as many aren't fussy enough to care. I used to like that IBM made their Thinkpad notebooks with tactile keyboards. They didn't make money though, as everyone wanted thin notebooks. Eventually they became extinct. And we got what we wanted - thin notebooks but lousy chiclet keys that don't type well. Just like the 'classy' Apple notebooks. Only touch typists care, or ergonomic diehards like me. The rest don't care haha. The more you know, the more you find reason to find fault.

 

[boris]

Look the ingredients are actually quite decent: pea protein, coconut oil, rice protein, cocoa butter, mung bean protein, potato, salt, vinegar, lemon juice, herbs and spices... All that is actually quite Peaty. But then they go and add canola oil as an ingredient and stuff it all up haha.. So I wouldn't say it is anywhere near as bad as mc donalds or kfc, but it is a decent product as a plant based alternative to a meat patty. And I think the product will continue to evolve.

Point that I was making is that I just think if you go to a fast food joint and get a burger in general, you can't expect to be eating health food. More than likely the oil they fry the patty in will be vege oil for starters, thats not including what they put in the mass produced sauces, the crap that would be in the cheeses, the quality of the meat and where it is coming from etc

A McDonalds beef patty should be healthier than any Beyond Meat, Some of their products contain soy, titanium dioxide, carrageenan. Don‘t forget the PUFA.

They don‘t have to label every ingredient. The beyond burger doesn‘t have carrageenan listed like their other Beyond products do, but it could just mean that they are under the legal limit and aren‘t obliged to list it.

 

[yerrag]

A McDonalds beef patty should be healthier than any Beyond Meat, Some of their products contain soy, titanium dioxide, carrageenan. Don‘t forget the PUFA.

They don‘t have to label every ingredient. The beyond burger doesn‘t have carrageenan listed like their other Beyond products do, but it could just mean that they are under the legal limit and aren‘t obliged to list it.

They have a long way to go then. What's a white pigment like titanium dioxide doing in food anyway? Damn. They sure want it to look nice regardless of what it does to our health.

 

[DennisX]

If you eat industry cows, chickens, pork that are kept in small spaces, feed gmo corn and soybean meal that has been sprayed with roundup pesticide, shot with antibiotics and hormones, Your health will not do well eating these meats. Same goes for the dairy that comes from these animals.

 

[yerrag]

If you eat industry cows, chickens, pork that are kept in small spaces, feed gmo corn and soybean meal that has been sprayed with roundup pesticide, shot with antibiotics and hormones, Your health will not do well eating these meats. Same goes for the dairy that comes from these animals.

Are you saying you prefer Beyond Meat?

 

[DennisX]

Are you saying you prefer Beyond Meat?

Nope. Have you looked at the ingredients in Beyond Meat? It’s crap.

 

[Ritchie]

Great that you've been able to make your beans tasty. I haven't. Not that it's not possible, as I like the Persian soups that have plenty beans in them and how they have a very flavorful blend of spices in them. Same thing with how the gypsies in Spain make their dishes with beans -awesome flavorful dishes. It would be ideal if they can tell me they sprouted the beans for 3 days at least. On that topic, I don't know how you could get your beans to sprout in one day. Perhaps it's because its always soaked. My sprouter doesn't allow the beans to soak all day. On top of the bed where the beans lay is a catch basin that accumulates water that is dripped from an overhead tank, the flow rate is controlled by adjusting a drip ball valve. Once the catch basin has enough water, it causes the water to spill over to the beans. The water flows through the bed, the beans get wetted again, and the beans don't get that awful smell from being soaked all day. Doing it this way, it takes 3 days at least for most of the beans to get to where sprouting occurs, and not all beans sprout at the same time. Except for mung beans.

Yeah soaking them for a bit over a day and they have little sprouts popping out. Although that sprouted sounds great, what's the brand and did you get it online?

They look good, but did they sprout the pea and mung beans enough? You didn't mention the texture enhancers, or did they omit those. I imagine they'd have stabilizers and emulsifiers and thickeners in there as well. Homemade burgers would have eggs and bread added for the texture.

They've come a long way from using TVP, and just not having soy is already a big improvement. And using canola is taking the path of least resistance and not wanting to upset the crowd that's hypnotized by the propaganda. Just like Democrat vloggers like Jimmy Dore wouldn't want to upset the climate change crowd, even as I believe they're smart enough personally not to fall for the inanity of man-made climate change.

Nah they don't sprout the pea and mung beans i don't think. They don't use any texture enhancers, stabilisers, emulsifiers or thickners. Just google the beyond meat burger ingredients and it is all there, non of that crap. The only real bad thing is that they have canola oil in there, but they use more coconut oil than canola so that may help to balance out the fat ratio.

 

[Ritchie]

A McDonalds beef patty should be healthier than any Beyond Meat, Some of their products contain soy, titanium dioxide, carrageenan. Don‘t forget the PUFA.

They don‘t have to label every ingredient. The beyond burger doesn‘t have carrageenan listed like their other Beyond products do, but it could just mean that they are under the legal limit and aren‘t obliged to list it.

Don't know what products your referring to but the beyond meat patty has non of that crap you mention. Just goole beyond meat patty ingredients.
What makes you think they don't have to label every ingredient? I'm pretty sure they have to on the packaging, which I've looked at... unless you have different information on that?

 

[boris]

Nah they don't sprout the pea and mung beans i don't think. They don't use any texture enhancers, stabilisers, emulsifiers or thickners. Just google the beyond meat burger ingredients and it is all there, non of that crap. The only real bad thing is that they have canola oil in there, but they use more coconut oil than canola so that may help to balance out the fat ratio.

What is listed is not the same as the actual ingredients. Our laws allow to add a bunch of stuff without disclosing if it is under a certain amount.

They use toxic gums in their other products, what stops them from using it in the burger too?