Very low androgens but no sexual issues

Gustav3Y

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I have been following some guys on various online places and have noticed at least 2-3 guys that have bottom of the barrel testosterone.
I have attached an example.
The shocking part is they claim their performance and libido, maintaining an erection and desire are not an issue, I do not see why they would be lying, because they also seem puzzled.

While so many people with fine to high testosterone levels have various male sexual issues.
We can easily speculate on the guys with normal and high testosterone why they aren't having a good erections or no libido.
But can we say about the guys with ultra low testosterone that have no sexual issues?
Why aren't they having problem with erections with female levels of testosterone (51 ng/dl), very low DTH levels (8 ng/dl), and high estrogen levels (139 pg/ml)? Exactly these are what anyone would say are the basic requirements for zero erection and libido in a man, so it is quite the paradox.


 
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RayIV

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Yes, quite a paradox indeed. I’ve seen similar findings in my experience, and even in myself. I’ve had testosterone levels test well above the reference range before (>1000+ng/dL), and still experienced symptoms of complete erectile dysfunction and no libido or sexual prowess. Would like to hear some of the great minds amongst this forum chime in. This is a conundrum that has always puzzled me, and maybe some of you, those more knowledgeable than me, could share your thoughts.
 

Gustav3Y

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Yes, quite a paradox indeed. I’ve seen similar findings in my experience, and even in myself. I’ve had testosterone levels test well above the reference range before (>1000+ng/dL), and still experienced symptoms of complete erectile dysfunction and no libido or sexual prowess. Would like to hear some of the great minds amongst this forum chime in. This is a conundrum that has always puzzled me, and maybe some of you, those more knowledgeable than me, could share your thoughts.
Yeah, like I was saying we can speculate various things in such cases where the testosterone is high, DHT high, which mostly can be read on the forums and I would really not like to get into those same things which seem already discussed.

But I can't look at those levels in the image and see how a male would not have any complaints about their sexual function and themselves be puzzled why things work ok.
 

redsun

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I have been following some guys on various online places and have noticed at least 2-3 guys that have bottom of the barrel testosterone.
I have attached an example.
The shocking part is they claim their performance and libido, maintaining an erection and desire are not an issue, I do not see why they would be lying, because they also seem puzzled.

While so many people with fine to high testosterone levels have various male sexual issues.
We can easily speculate on the guys with normal and high testosterone why they aren't having a good erections or no libido.
But can we say about the guys with ultra low testosterone that have no sexual issues?
Why aren't they having problem with erections with female levels of testosterone (51 ng/dl), very low DTH levels (8 ng/dl), and high estrogen levels (139 pg/ml)? Exactly these are what anyone would say are the basic requirements for zero erection and libido in a man, so it is quite the paradox.



High histamine is enough though histamine + normal androgens will do much better. You don't need high androgens for optimal libido and high androgens does not mean high libido. Proper vasodilation and histamine levels is more important then numbers on a lab. Estrogen also helps signal histamine because mast cells have estrogen receptors. So problems with nitric oxide and/or very low histamine means problems with libido/erections. It doesn't matter if androgens are high from steroids or naturally. But histamine is always bad in Peatland. That's why this will remain a mystery to everyone who refuses to look without their preapproved lenses.
 

Gustav3Y

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@redsun I see your point.
But how are those female levels of androgens ok for a male to not have issues? All boils down to nitric oxide, estrogens and histamines?

I am a bit unsure about the Total Estoegen levels, since that clearly seem to not be the regular Estradiol value, because that estrogen hormone has way lower reference values for men (top being 60 pg/ml in most labs apparently)
 
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redsun

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@redsun I see you point.
But how are those female levels of androgens ok for a male to not have issues? All boils down to nitric oxide, estrogens and histamines?

I am a bit unsure about the Total Estoegen levels, since that clearly seem to not be the regular Estradiol value, because that estrogen hormone has way lower reference values for men (top being 60 pg/ml in most labs apparently)

It is "okay" enough for sexual function if histamine and nitric oxide function are in a decent place.

Testosterone should be normal ideally though as they are important for energy, quality of life, masculine behavior (testosterone and its conversion to DHT and estradiol are necessary for all of this) and of course they will improve libido/sexual function assuming everything else works well enough.
 

Wagner83

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It is "okay" enough for sexual function if histamine and nitric oxide function are in a decent place.

Testosterone should be normal ideally though as they are important for energy, quality of life, masculine behavior (testosterone and its conversion to DHT and estradiol are necessary for all of this) and of course they will improve libido/sexual function assuming everything else works well enough.
What are your current ideas on safely boosting histamine in the long run? I've seen you mention folic acid / folate, preferably as part of a b complex as it should be more sustainable, as well as histidine and red meat for its various nutrients. What are you personally doing?
 

redsun

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What are your current ideas on safely boosting histamine in the long run? I've seen you mention folic acid / folate, preferably as part of a b complex as it should be more sustainable, as well as histidine and red meat for its various nutrients. What are you personally doing?

Personally I don't do anything at the moment. You don't necessarily have to maintain it. Once its higher, it tends to stay there.

Thyroid nutrients such as selenium, iodine, will raise it but its not good to take these alone. A multivitamin which has other nutrients along with I and selenium in it to help sure you don't deplete yourself. Folate yes will do it, histidine to histamine conversion is dependent on B6 and zinc (activates B6 to P5P). You can take P5P and that will help if you are already getting a decent amount of zinc in the diet. Niacinamide will also raise histamine as it reduces methylation (which is how histamine is deactivated in the brain) and is generally a pro-thyroid substance.

If you overdo it on niacinamide it is not good as you will be too undermethylated, but you can take SAM-e and other methyl donors if you overkill. It is very effective for this purpose, just be mindful and you will reap benefits without much side effects.
 

scoobydoo

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would be interested to see other blood markers you may have such as cholesterol, thyroid, CBC, iron etc. Also what is your daily diet look like?
 

Gustav3Y

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would be interested to see other blood markers you may have such as cholesterol, thyroid, CBC, iron etc. Also what is your daily diet look like?
Me or Redsun?
Those are not my personal blood tests.
 

Gustav3Y

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Because Ray Peat is wrong about estradiol. Not even a debate.


I wonder what makes some people have not very low levels of estrogen and have so little obvious side-effects. Here I mean why someone can have a bit higher than Peat would like estradiol levels but not get gyno?
It is genetic over activity of mammary gland estrogen receptors? That is what make the difference?
Some guys even at some point said they have used estrogen cream to get powerful erections if I recall correctly on this forum actually.
But at the same time I do not recall any claims of getting nipple soreness, gyno or other side effects which sometimes can happen the next day, 2 weeks or so, meaning they would be quickly noticed.
 

Frankdee20

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I think if one has enough NO and Dopamine activity, the ability to perform sexually is not impeded by low androgens.... I just think high androgens may motivate one more to have sex... I’ve had shitty T levels for a long time, but have been able to perform.... I just don’t have the drive to seek out novel sexual experiences with multiple women, but maybe because I rather not cheat on my lady....
 

Wagner83

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Personally I don't do anything at the moment. You don't necessarily have to maintain it. Once its higher, it tends to stay there.

Thyroid nutrients such as selenium, iodine, will raise it but its not good to take these alone. A multivitamin which has other nutrients along with I and selenium in it to help sure you don't deplete yourself. Folate yes will do it, histidine to histamine conversion is dependent on B6 and zinc (activates B6 to P5P). You can take P5P and that will help if you are already getting a decent amount of zinc in the diet. Niacinamide will also raise histamine as it reduces methylation (which is how histamine is deactivated in the brain) and is generally a pro-thyroid substance.

If you overdo it on niacinamide it is not good as you will be too undermethylated, but you can take SAM-e and other methyl donors if you overkill. It is very effective for this purpose, just be mindful and you will reap benefits without much side effects.
Thanks for these ideas and for your overall contribution on here.
 
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