Very High Salt Intake (50g A Day) Increases Metabolism, Makes People Energetic And Happy

yerrag

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So, the good way is to load up first on magnesium and potassium, and then safely on sodium?
I've loaded up on magnesium. So aim confident they my potassium intake will not become potassium excreted out in urine. So it increases the chance that my potassium stores will build up, especially with increased potassium intake. And with increased potassium stores, I believe the body will take to higher salt intake more readily.

It's all about balance still.
 
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zarrin77

zarrin77

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jet9

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it wasn't until I switched to juicing most of it that I realized how much the fiber had actually been hurting my intestines, cholesterol level and thyroid -- I was finally able to raise my chronically low cholesterol just by cutting back on the fiber.
Do even lower fiber fruits bother you? (like watermelon) Do you juice it too?
 

Jennifer

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Do even lower fiber fruits bother you? (like watermelon) Do you juice it too?
I tolerate low fiber fruits the best but even then I'm finding I currently do best getting no more than 20g of fiber a day so I eat some melon whole, some young coconut meat, medjool and khadrawy dates, freeze dried mango and vacuum dried red dragon fruit (both for the crunch), and juice the rest of my fruits -- 4+ liters worth from different varieties of melons and grapes.
 

yerrag

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Is this safe for people with heart disease ☺️

Not at these high doses, I wouldn't risk it.

Moderate sea salt with potassium supplementation is fine though.

It is very likely increasing serotonin synthesis, as the entire sympathetic nervous system becomes overactive on a low salt diet. (Which actually increases pulse, so this can make monitoring pulse confusing if you see a drop after increasing salt intake. This is good though, because you are lowering norepinephrine et. al.)

When I took 3x10g of NaCl in a day, I experienced lower heart rate. So good to know why that's happening.

My blood pressure monitor also detected arrhythmia, so I stopped. Perhaps I need to first increase my potassium stores (my magnesium store is already good). But somehow I feel that calcium is involved here, as calcium going in and out of the cell is what provides the polarity gradient needed to effect the contraction of heart muscle. Since I don't believe I'm low on calcium (as I drink milk, eat cooked green leaves, and add egg shell powder to my morning egg and coffee), I think the potassium: sodium ratio is what's at play here.

But I also suspect I have some plaque in my heart valves, nothing that would raise alarm bells, but it may just be enough to cause arrhythmia when I take a lot of salt.
 
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zarrin77

zarrin77

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When I took 3x10g of NaCl in a day, I experienced lower heart rate. So good to know why that's happening.

My blood pressure monitor also detected arrhythmia, so I stopped. Perhaps I need to first increase my potassium stores (my magnesium store is already good). But somehow I feel that calcium is involved here, as calcium going in and out of the cell is what provides the polarity gradient needed to effect the contraction of heart muscle. Since I don't believe I'm low on calcium (as I drink milk, eat cooked green leaves, and add egg shell powder to my morning egg and coffee), I think the potassium: sodium ratio is what's at play here.

But I also suspect I have some plaque in my heart valves, nothing that would raise alarm bells, but it may just be enough to cause arrhythmia when I take a lot of salt.

K2 MK7 seems to be able to induce arrhythmia in some people (rare it seems with MK4) due to how it influences calcium uptake / signaling. It is a very reported phenomenon with mk7. So just making sure you weren’t also taking that with the high salt experiment.

Otherwise, I agree, could have been the Na / K ratio.

Supplementing with baking soda could be an alternative strategy to try for sodium.
 

theLaw

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From RP article (Salt, energy, metabolic rate, and longevity):

"Rather than showing that salt causes stomach cancer, the experiments showed that a cup or more of saturated salt solution, or several ounces of pure salt, shouldn’t be ingested at the same time as a strong carcinogen."

3 ounces of pure salt = 4.66 Tbsp:eek::eek::eek:
 
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Personally, I rely more on whole and dried fruits than fruit juice.

I never understood the focus here on fruit juice instead of whole fruits. The literature strongly suggests better health with whole fruits, the polyphenol content is much higher, which protects from endotoxin and helps gut health. Sure, they have some fiber, not anything like wheat bran or something, but the fiber in fruits tends to positively modulate our microbiome so that there is less inflammation present.

2 litres of OJ contains 4000mg potassium, 200mg magnesium, 600mcg folate, and 1000mg vitamin C. It takes ~ 25-30 oranjes to produce this quantity of juice. Try eating that every day for a year, and I'm sure you'll understand within a month why we prefer the juice.

Also, polyphenols are typically toxins which are beneficial mainly through hormesis. Fibre, since humans cannot digest it, increases inflamation in the digestive tract, but it readily feeds bacteria which subsequently thrive and produce endotoxin as a token of their gratitude.

Welcome to the Ray Peat Forum.
 
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Elize

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What would high salt intake do with Histamine and Mast Cell activation?
 

Elize

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12 pm took 1/4 teaspoon salt with my food. 2 pm sweating and very jittery. Did it lower my cortisol? Body aches and eyes feel pressure behind them
 

Nebula

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So, the good way is to load up first on magnesium and potassium, and then safely on sodium?
I’ve found the opposite to work better for me. Load up on sodium then magnesium seems to have much more potent effects. But both aren’t retrained and utilized well unless ATP/thyroid is present to make use of them. Both magnesium and salt just run directly out though your urine unless your cells retain them.
 
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Elize

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Gosh even magnesium does the same to me. Should I have them all at the same time as my T4 and T3?
 
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zarrin77

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2 litres of OJ contains 4000mg potassium, 200mg magnesium, 600mcg folate, and 1000mg vitamin C. It takes ~ 25-30 oranjes to produce this quantity of juice. Try eating that every day for a year, and I'm sure you'll understand within a month why we prefer the juice.

Also, polyphenols are typically toxins which are beneficial mainly through hormesis. Fibre, since humans cannot digest it, increases inflamation in the digestive tract, but it readily feeds bacteria which subsequently thrive and produce endotoxin as a token of their gratitude.

Welcome to the Ray Peat Forum.

Thanks for the welcome! I’m very familiar with Ray’s ideas, and he has a lot of good ones, though I don’t agree with all of them based on my own research.

For example, during Ray’s time, there wasn’t much research on the microbiome and the ability of “good” bacteria that we evolved with to compete with harmful overgrowth of “bad” bacteria and fungus.

I don’ think all types of fiber are good for the gut, yet eating hardly any fiber and a low intake of bacteria-modulating polyphenols allows for greater opportunity of pathogenic bacteria to thrive.

Those who have taken many rounds of antibiotics can have an increase in fungus and pathogenic bacteria, creating a lot of gut and health issues. This isn’t uncommon. (Activated charcoal actually increases the “good” to “bad” bacteria ratio [pig study], and so does not act like an antibiotic)

The evidence for the assertion that fiber from whole fruits will increase gut inflammation is weak to non-existent. Much more evidence shows a protective role, due to shifting the balance of “good” / “bad” bacteria and increasing diversity.

Isolated fiber supplementation, without the gut-modulating polyphenols and other phytonutrients, have a tendency to indiscriminately feed almost any type of bacteria, and thus can easily get negative results. This isn’t the case for whole fruits. Like I’ve said before, most of the time it is the FODMAPs in the fruits that tend to cause gut issues in individuals that are susceptible to them.

I’m not saying to not listen to your body. If you have trouble with a certain food or foods, then it might not be for you.

The VAST majority of *human* evidence shows a much stronger health-promoting effect (including gut-health) from whole fruits than fruit juice.

Edit: I do see the point to getting more nutrients more easily from the juice. Yet, I like to look at the most relevant and highest level of evidence. I do not want to miss the forest for the trees. Again, whole fruits have fantastic long term human evidence / data compared to its juice.
 

mrchibbs

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@zarrin77

I start by saying I totally agree with you on fruits.

That being said, I think most of Ray's recommendations of orange juice for example are a matter of convenience for the common people, and the comparative difficulty of finding ripe fruits in most of the developed world.

I find it disappointing when people reduce Ray's ideas down to certain patterns. In many interviews, he's spoken glowingly about the potential of fruits for the human diet, and even about the possibility of combining different fruits to obtain complete proteins.

And regarding, good bacteria, he's also had several good quotes on the anti-inflammatory effect of lactobacilli, and has even said that he thinks yogurt without the lactic acid is safe, and an interesting food.

There is a lot of nuance to what he says. One man can't know everything, but I'm unabashedly a fan of this man and I think it's sad when people either follow the ''RP diet of milk and OJ'' without thinking for themselves, or when people reduce Ray's ideas down too much. Perceive, Think, Act. That's it, rant over! :)
 
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Thanks for the welcome! I’m very familiar with Ray’s ideas, and he has a lot of good ones, though I don’t agree with all of them based on my own research.

For example, during Ray’s time, there wasn’t much research on the microbiome and the ability of “good” bacteria that we evolved with to compete with harmful overgrowth of “bad” bacteria and fungus.

I don’ think all types of fiber are good for the gut, yet eating hardly any fiber and a low intake of bacteria-modulating polyphenols allows for greater opportunity of pathogenic bacteria to thrive.

Those who have taken many rounds of antibiotics can have an increase in fungus and pathogenic bacteria, creating a lot of gut and health issues. This isn’t uncommon. (Activated charcoal actually increases the “good” to “bad” bacteria ratio [pig study], and so does not act like an antibiotic)

The evidence for the assertion that fiber from whole fruits will increase gut inflammation is weak to non-existent. Much more evidence shows a protective role, due to shifting the balance of “good” / “bad” bacteria and increasing diversity.

Isolated fiber supplementation, without the gut-modulating polyphenols and other phytonutrients, have a tendency to indiscriminately feed almost any type of bacteria, and thus can easily get negative results. This isn’t the case for whole fruits. Like I’ve said before, most of the time it is the FODMAPs in the fruits that tend to cause gut issues in individuals that are susceptible to them.

I’m not saying to not listen to your body. If you have trouble with a certain food or foods, then it might not be for you.

The VAST majority of *human* evidence shows a much stronger health-promoting effect (including gut-health) from whole fruits than fruit juice.

Edit: I do see the point to getting more nutrients more easily from the juice. Yet, I like to look at the most relevant and highest level of evidence. I do not want to miss the forest for the trees. Again, whole fruits have fantastic long term human evidence / data compared to its juice.

Thx man, for the info! You've just stirred up a bee hive - prepare for the shitstorm :D
 
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@zarrin77

I start by saying I totally agree with you on fruits.

That being said, I think most of Ray's recommendations of orange juice for example are a matter of convenience for the common people, and the comparative difficulty of finding ripe fruits in most of the developed world.

I find it disappointing when people reduce Ray's ideas down to certain patterns. In many interviews, he's spoken glowingly about the potential of fruits for the human diet, and even about the possibility of combining different fruits to obtain complete proteins.

And regarding, good bacteria, he's also had several good quotes on the anti-inflammatory effect of lactobacilli, and has even said that he thinks yogurt without the lactic acid is safe, and an interesting food.

There is a lot of nuance to what he says. One man can't know everything, but I'm unabashedly a fan of this man and I think it's sad when people either follow the ''RP diet of milk and OJ'' without thinking for themselves, or when people reduce Ray's ideas down too much. Perceive, Think, Act. That's it, rant over! :)
Totally agree!
 
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Thanks for the welcome! I’m very familiar with Ray’s ideas, and he has a lot of good ones, though I don’t agree with all of them based on my own research.

For example, during Ray’s time, there wasn’t much research on the microbiome and the ability of “good” bacteria that we evolved with to compete with harmful overgrowth of “bad” bacteria and fungus.

I don’ think all types of fiber are good for the gut, yet eating hardly any fiber and a low intake of bacteria-modulating polyphenols allows for greater opportunity of pathogenic bacteria to thrive.

Those who have taken many rounds of antibiotics can have an increase in fungus and pathogenic bacteria, creating a lot of gut and health issues. This isn’t uncommon. (Activated charcoal actually increases the “good” to “bad” bacteria ratio [pig study], and so does not act like an antibiotic)

The evidence for the assertion that fiber from whole fruits will increase gut inflammation is weak to non-existent. Much more evidence shows a protective role, due to shifting the balance of “good” / “bad” bacteria and increasing diversity.

Isolated fiber supplementation, without the gut-modulating polyphenols and other phytonutrients, have a tendency to indiscriminately feed almost any type of bacteria, and thus can easily get negative results. This isn’t the case for whole fruits. Like I’ve said before, most of the time it is the FODMAPs in the fruits that tend to cause gut issues in individuals that are susceptible to them.

I’m not saying to not listen to your body. If you have trouble with a certain food or foods, then it might not be for you.

The VAST majority of *human* evidence shows a much stronger health-promoting effect (including gut-health) from whole fruits than fruit juice.

Edit: I do see the point to getting more nutrients more easily from the juice. Yet, I like to look at the most relevant and highest level of evidence. I do not want to miss the forest for the trees. Again, whole fruits have fantastic long term human evidence / data compared to its juice.

Some points I can agree with. Not too much to sneeze at.

If you are arguing that eating whole fruit is better than not eating any fruit-derived food products, then, other than a few carnivores and a segment of members with dental problems, most will agree with you.

If you are arguing that whole fruit has "a much stronger health-promoting effect" than fruit juice, I'd like to see those RCTs. If your "fantastic long term human evidence" consists of nutritional epidemiology, I guess you didn't get the memo, so brace yourself for some bad news. Nutrional epidemiology is unable to prove whether humans thrive because of one food or despite that food or really prove anything.

The good news is that stack of printouts of dogmatic speculation based on goofy data from surveys (which even my program at the accounting and information management department strictly forbade us from conducting for our master theses due to obvious unreliability) can be reappropriated as the ideal solution to the covid19 TP dearth.
 

yerrag

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I’ve found the opposite to work better for me. Load up on sodium then magnesium seems to have much more potent effects. But both aren’t retrained and utilized well unless ATP/thyroid is present to make use of them. Both magnesium and salt just run directly out though your urine unless your cells retain them.

Gosh even magnesium does the same to me. Should I have them all at the same time as my T4 and T3?

What magnesium salt are you taking?
 

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