Vegetable oils

Pet Peeve

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would too much copper cause it since it interacts with molybdenum? also does milk have enough molybdenum to counteract the sulfur i think its like 22mcg per cup of pasteurized 1% milk!
There is a link between copper and molybdenum but Im not sure exactly how it works, I know that molybdenum will decrease copper. You can test for sulphur intolerance by following the description in the link I provided, i.e. cutting out sulphur containing foods and supplementing molybdenum. You would need to avoid sulphur in foods as well as supplementing up to 3000 mcg molybdenum per day to correct a deficiency, Ive even seen supplements with 6000 mcg per capsule.
 

Dr. B

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There is a link between copper and molybdenum but Im not sure exactly how it works, I know that molybdenum will decrease copper. You can test for sulphur intolerance by following the description in the link I provided, i.e. cutting out sulphur containing foods and supplementing molybdenum. You would need to avoid sulphur in foods as well as supplementing up to 3000 mcg molybdenum per day to correct a deficiency, Ive even seen supplements with 6000 mcg per capsule.
is milk a high sulphur food
 

Pet Peeve

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is milk a high sulphur food
Yes, but egg is much worse. The idea is that you have a sulphur-threshold where the unpleasant effects kick in when youve eaten enough sulphur, its not like an allergy. It varies from person to person how much can be handled.
 

Dr. B

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Yes, but egg is much worse. The idea is that you have a sulphur-threshold where the unpleasant effects kick in when youve eaten enough sulphur, its not like an allergy. It varies from person to person how much can be handled.
which supplements are sulfur based, arent there several amino acids and vitamin supplements that are sulfur based? MSM, maybe taurine, and several others? is this why taurine supplements can cause issues for some? i remember there being several other supplements. also since with milk youre getting 22mcg per cup of molybdenum, shouldnt any sulfur in that balance itself out with the molybdenum? the rda for molybdenum is apparently 45mcg, so a half gallon milk will get you 200mcg or more. also ray doesnt seem to like molybdenum, especially supplementing it?
 

Pet Peeve

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which supplements are sulfur based, arent there several amino acids and vitamin supplements that are sulfur based? MSM, maybe taurine, and several others? is this why taurine supplements can cause issues for some? i remember there being several other supplements. also since with milk youre getting 22mcg per cup of molybdenum, shouldnt any sulfur in that balance itself out with the molybdenum? the rda for molybdenum is apparently 45mcg, so a half gallon milk will get you 200mcg or more. also ray doesnt seem to like molybdenum, especially supplementing it?
Here's a good list of foods/supplements, MSM is definitely not allowed though not mentioned here: low sulphur diet

You may be right about milk balancing out, but I think the main point is to replenish molybdenum first then reintroduce different foods to see how you react. Ray doesn't have to like it, it's not long term health advice, Ray doesn't like iron either but at the same time a severe deficiency could be life threatening. See also the Vitamin A thread.
 
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yes thats the other thing like I can have fried chicken, which is non organic, full of pufa oil. like popeyes or chic filas chicken sandwich, probably the worst stuff you can imagine, maybe chic filas is antibiotic free but thats it. i can tolerate those which directly have pufa, and are soy and corn fed. but if its eggs i get the bloating, constipation effect and skin irritation. i think its something in the egg white. i havent tried out corn/soy free eggs on a long term basis.
Egg whites are really high in tryptophan. I saw one study where egg whites increased brain serotonin, which could cause the fatigue. The digestive issues are probably the sulphur though.

Liver is pretty high in molybdenum, maybe that's why people have less problems with it? I too feel bad eating eggs, but I think it's because I'm allergic to them.
 
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julia

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I think that in one podcast Ray Peat mentioned that raw eggs are easier on the stomach,perhaps eating the eggs raw might solve some of the digestive issues associated with them.
 

Dr. B

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Here's a good list of foods/supplements, MSM is definitely not allowed though not mentioned here: low sulphur diet

You may be right about milk balancing out, but I think the main point is to replenish molybdenum first then reintroduce different foods to see how you react. Ray doesn't have to like it, it's not long term health advice, Ray doesn't like iron either but at the same time a severe deficiency could be life threatening. See also the Vitamin A thread.

which vitamin A thread do you mean the "anti peat" grant generoux vitamin A stuff? that is somewhat supported by Peat like hes said limiting carotenes and limiting vitamin A to 5000IU if your metabolism is poor. from all sources. i think thats a decent threshold, 5000IU was the previous rda for vitamin A, now its been downgraded to 3000IU and upper limit is 10k IU i think.

should taurine supplements be avoided on the low sulfur diet? what about whole grass fed organic milk? beef organ meats? whey protein? it does have cysteine and other amino acids which have some sulfur?

Egg whites are really high in tryptophan. I saw one study where egg whites increased brain serotonin, which could cause the fatigue. The digestive issues are probably the sulphur though.

Liver is pretty high in molybdenum, maybe that's why people have less problems with it? I too feel bad eating eggs, but I think it's because I'm allergic to them.

how do they compare to tryptophan in whey? whey has never given me the symptoms. but personally i think the fatigue may have been related to the digestive distress resulting from the egg whites. also, I can have a single whole egg and not have much symptoms, but once its 2 or more eggs a day theres more serious bloating, skin redness etc. egg yolks in ice cream are also fine but i dont know if its just a single egg yolk or multiple used in ice cream like haagen dazs, jenis, mcconells etc.
 
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which vitamin A thread do you mean the "anti peat" grant generoux vitamin A stuff? that is somewhat supported by Peat like hes said limiting carotenes and limiting vitamin A to 5000IU if your metabolism is poor. from all sources. i think thats a decent threshold, 5000IU was the previous rda for vitamin A, now its been downgraded to 3000IU and upper limit is 10k IU i think.

should taurine supplements be avoided on the low sulfur diet? what about whole grass fed organic milk? beef organ meats? whey protein? it does have cysteine and other amino acids which have some sulfur?



how do they compare to tryptophan in whey? whey has never given me the symptoms. but personally i think the fatigue may have been related to the digestive distress resulting from the egg whites. also, I can have a single whole egg and not have much symptoms, but once its 2 or more eggs a day theres more serious bloating, skin redness etc. egg yolks in ice cream are also fine but i dont know if its just a single egg yolk or multiple used in ice cream like haagen dazs, jenis, mcconells etc.
I made a mistake there wrt tryptophan. I could swear eggs had over 3 grams of trypt. for each 100 grams of protein, but they are actually not that high in it: around 1,3 grams. I must have confused it with methionine, which eggs are really high in (about 3,7 grams per 100 grams of protein). Their cystine content is no joke either: 2,8 grams per 100g protein. Much higher than beef and milk.

So, to rectify my comment, I think the side- effects are mostly due to the sulphur component( methionine and cystine), although the tryptophan in eggs may be more absorbable than from other proteins.

Whey has more trypt. than eggs, so it must be something else in eggs causing those effects( the protein itself and the sulphur components are good candidates I think).
 

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I made a mistake there wrt tryptophan. I could swear eggs had over 3 grams of trypt. for each 100 grams of protein, but they are actually not that high in it: around 1,3 grams. I must have confused it with methionine, which eggs are really high in (about 3,7 grams per 100 grams of protein). Their cystine content is no joke either: 2,8 grams per 100g protein. Much higher than beef and milk.

So, to rectify my comment, I think the side- effects are mostly due to the sulphur component( methionine and cystine), although the tryptophan in eggs may be more absorbable than from other proteins.

Whey has more trypt. than eggs, so it must be something else in eggs causing those effects( the protein itself and the sulphur components are good candidates I think).

is the sulfur based on the amino acids? which aminos contain sulfur? so the more methionine and cysteine a food has the more sulfur it has?
 
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is the sulfur based on the amino acids? which aminos contain sulfur? so the more methionine and cysteine a food has the more sulfur it has?
It's based on aminoacids, yeah, but not just on them. The more protein, the more sulphur, since every protein has methionine and cystine( except gelatin, which lacks the latter). Taurine contributes to the intake as well, but not a lot, since its amounts in food are tiny. Garlic, for example, isn't high in methionine or cystine, but it has other compounds which themselves contain sulphur.
 

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It's based on aminoacids, yeah, but not just on them. The more protein, the more sulphur, since every protein has methionine and cystine( except gelatin, which lacks the latter). Taurine contributes to the intake as well, but not a lot, since its amounts in food are tiny. Garlic, for example, isn't high in methionine or cystine, but it has other compounds which themselves contain sulphur.
are those the only 3 sulfur containing aminos? isnt there a vitamin or mineral which contains sulfur or no? and i mean supplementing taurine, like many people supplement 500mg or 1g or more and thats tough to get from food
 
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are those the only 3 sulfur containing aminos? isnt there a vitamin or mineral which contains sulfur or no? and i mean supplementing taurine, like many people supplement 500mg or 1g or more and thats tough to get from food
As far as I know, those are the only aminoacids that have sulphur.

True about taurine supplementation. Depending on how much you use of it, it can contribute to the daily ingestion.

Thiamine has sulphur as well, so people that have problems with sulfide producing bacteria in their gut may not tolerate high doses of this vitamin.
 

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As far as I know, those are the only aminoacids that have sulphur.

True about taurine supplementation. Depending on how much you use of it, it can contribute to the daily ingestion.

Thiamine has sulphur as well, so people that have problems with sulfide producing bacteria in their gut may not tolerate high doses of this vitamin.
probably also n acetyl cysteine and other derivatives of cysteine/methionine supplements?
would creatine indirectly boost sulfur? apparently i think glycine arginine methionine and choline go into synthesizing creatine. i think if you supplement the 5g doses of creatine, wouldnt the body retain more of those amino acids and choline, thus causing a potential excess of methionine and choline? when i used creatine regularly i did have many of the excess choline symptoms like excess sweating, oily hair and skin, some more anxiety, more energy/maybe easier to build muscle
 

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