Vegan bodybuilders & athletes

[MIP1950]

I think Ray Peat is one of the most insightful, cutting edge scientists, but when I read interviews and posts by Mike Mahler, a vegan bodybuilder or Mac Danzig, a champion mixed martial arts fighter who's a vegan, it makes me ask: How can Ray Peat be right, looking at objective science, and Mike Mahler, who is an example of being strong and healthy on a diet of beans, nuts, seeds, fruits, vegetables, olive oil and coconut milk, be a contradiction to Peatatarian eating?

Right now, I'm following RPs dietary guidelines and a week ago, starting taking 500mg of pregnenolone, daily, which seems to be improving my health more than diet. Up until 2010,(staring in 1995) I used to be an ovo-lacto vegetarian, though I didn't understand the science of creating a healthy diet. I ate way too much soy, too many PUFAs, ate huge salads, lots of fruit, a small amount of dairy and eggs, but for whatever reason, I was strong, reasonably healthy, worked a physically demanding job and had a strong libido, along with great erectile function.

I know Ray Peat isn't pushing a diet. He presents the science that shows how eating certain foods or food groups can interfere or suppress metabolic function, while other foods or food groups tend to promote metabolic function. Scott Jurek, the world class ultra marathoner, who grew up as a meat eater, over time, became a vegan, because he found it made him healthier and stronger. On the other side, Chris Masterjohn of the Weston Price Foundation, abandoned being a vegetarian and found improved health eating meat and full fat dairy. I like beans and rice and vegetables and fruit. It seems to agree with my body, especially my gastrointestinal system. I'm trying to resolve the contradictions between two scientific and philosophical positions. Maybe it's not possible. Perhaps, it's as Sly Stone wrote in his song 'Everyday People', "Different strokes for different folks."

 

[XPlus]

The idea that we're all different and therefore different things work for different people has some truth in it but it's way too simplistic.
Understanding the live and the lifeless properties of our system allows us to understand stress at a deeper level.
There are people who come from less stressed backgrounds and people come from more stressed backgrounds.
The context of the environemnt is what determines the different health outcomes those coming from different stress backgrounds have throughout their lifetime.
This is another simplistic view but a more true-to-reality one.

Here's a good place to start to understand stress:
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fa ... tion.shtml

And as for finding out the truth, experimenting would be your only way.
Give the vegetarian diet some more time. If you never fall into the trap of degeneration, then you'll eventually realise you're always on the right path.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I think the most I've seen Ray Peat talk about regarding pregnenolone supplementation is 300mg a week.

 

[Brian]

If a person is already in good health I think near-veganism is possible with good outcomes. The main things are getting enough absorbable and balanced protein (probably going to need some from rice and pea protein supplements), having a good calcium/phosphate and zinc/copper ratio, and supplementing things like preformed retinol, B12, K2, D3, zinc, calcium, magnesium. It should work pretty good as long as you are getting enough digestible (lower fiber) calories and don't overdo vegetables.

Near-veganism I think is probably a better bet by including things like oysters and eggs.

I also think it's possible to overdo potassium on a diet with potatoes and beans as the staples (which are both very high in potassium). I was once eating a diet where the bulk of my calories were from potatoes and my energy production really dropped off despite including lots of salt. I switched out most of the potatoes for white rice and more fruit and my temperature and pulse came back up. But this was after a year of really pounding the potassium and not very much daily sweating.

 

[MIP1950]

Read the abstract and was able to extract some significant information. My personal story fits into RP's
analysis of stress. I have untreatable severe bipolar illness and I'm in a dysfunctional marriage going into its 21st year. For 10 years I've been living with an ever increasing level of unremitting stress, coupled with poor sleep. Prior to that, I worked in a high stress job, running on adrenaline for 13 years, until I crashed in 2004. Since I can't take psych meds, I now take, daily, 3gm of taurine each night along with a small dose of Klonopin. Prior to this, I'd only used taurine when I began to develop a severe manic episode, along with a migraine. Last year, I took gluten out of my diet and I've experienced decreased severity of migraines.

If this is all off topic, I apologize, since my post was about vegan bodybuilders and athletes but I'm trying to find every way I can to save my life, which includes dietary strategies/changes. I'm not lost, I'm searching.

 

[EIRE24]

Weird, I was about to post a similar thing the other day. I'm sure you've heard or seen durian riders videos. He's a vegan and seems healthy and very energetic. Wether or not that's due to all his cycling and running on adrenaline I'm unsure but again it contradicts some of the things Ray says. I don't argue Ray isn't right though as I know he is a genius

 

[MIP1950]

EIRE24,

Yes. familiar with durian riders story. Ray Peat is the epitome of a good scientist and I'm more impressed because he had numerous health issues and he used himself as a test subject to see what works and what doesn't. How many scientists or physicians would do that? That gives him great credibility, along with encyclopedic knowledge of the science upon which he built his research.

So, are people who thrive on vegetarian diets or fruitatarian diets, outliers; people way outside the curve? An off the wall example: Keith Richards of the Rolling Stones consumed a bottle of Jack Daniels while being interviewed by Rolling Stone magazine back in 1985. The interviewer said Richards was cold sober when the interview ended. His father, also, could consume prodigious amounts of alcohol and not get drunk. From a cellular or metabolic perspective, super enzymes in the liver is the only conclusion I can reach.

I wish there was a 'one size fits all' diet but I haven't found it. I certainly get tired of thinking about and analyzing the food choices I'm making.

 

[Tarmander]

I ate way too much soy, too many PUFAs, ate huge salads, lots of fruit, a small amount of dairy and eggs, but for whatever reason, I was strong, reasonably healthy, worked a physically demanding job and had a strong libido, along with great erectile function.

I like beans and rice and vegetables and fruit. It seems to agree with my body, especially my gastrointestinal system. I'm trying to resolve the contradictions between two scientific and philosophical positions. Maybe it's not possible. Perhaps, it's as Sly Stone wrote in his song 'Everyday People', "Different strokes for different folks."

My personal story fits into RP's analysis of stress. I have untreatable severe bipolar illness and I'm in a dysfunctional marriage going into its 21st year. For 10 years I've been living with an ever increasing level of unremitting stress, coupled with poor sleep. Prior to that, I worked in a high stress job, running on adrenaline for 13 years, until I crashed in 2004. Since I can't take psych meds, I now take, daily, 3gm of taurine each night along with a small dose of Klonopin. Prior to this, I'd only used taurine when I began to develop a severe manic episode, along with a migraine.

Dude just look at what you are saying. That last paragraph does not fit very well with what you said in your first couple paragraphs. I basically read, "I ate this stuff and lived off stress hormones and it worked great for a long time." Forget trying to figure it out, just look at your results. You are on Klonopin...I mean damn dude you know how hard that stuff is to kick?

 

[MIP1950]

My oversight. I've been on Klonopin since 2007. If I don't take it, I don't sleep. Tried to get off it and almost ended up on a psych unit. Nasty drug but my psychiatrist, who is a world class researcher, has wracked her brains to find ANYTHING to replace it, including oxytocin and low dose naltrexone. I am screwed twelve ways and Sunday. Perhaps I cannot regain my health. Maybe it's an exercise in futility. Maybe diet isn't the answer. An untreatable disease and dysfunctional marriage are enough to wreck ones health and ones life. And if you're too sick to hold a job to be self supporting, living with a crazy wife beats being homeless at 65, on disability.

 

[MIP1950]

Once again, I apologize to the administrator, moderators and members for going so far off topic and sharing too much of my personal story. This isn't a psych site or a men's health site.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwppGQ8lZL4

 

[XPlus]

I ate way too much soy, too many PUFAs, ate huge salads, lots of fruit, a small amount of dairy and eggs, but for whatever reason, I was strong, reasonably healthy, worked a physically demanding job and had a strong libido, along with great erectile function.

I like beans and rice and vegetables and fruit. It seems to agree with my body, especially my gastrointestinal system. I'm trying to resolve the contradictions between two scientific and philosophical positions.

I have untreatable severe bipolar illness and I'm in a dysfunctional marriage going into its 21st year. For 10 years I've been living with an ever increasing level of unremitting stress, coupled with poor sleep. Prior to that, I worked in a high stress job, running on adrenaline for 13 years, until I crashed in 2004. Since I can't take psych meds, I now take, daily, 3gm of taurine each night along with a small dose of Klonopin. Prior to this, I'd only used taurine when I began to develop a severe manic episode, along with a migraine.

I guess Westy figured out a way for you to solve all your problems at once. Two words: gay vegan.
After all, gay vegans taste better.
*Insert a homophobic George Carlin remark here*

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I guess Westy figured out a way for you to solve all your problems at once. Two words: gay vegan.
After all, gay vegans taste better.
*Insert a homophobic George Carlin remark here*

I wasn't endorsing veganism. I was just posting Vegan Gains' video because it's funny. He's entertaining. Watch his "Worst Of The Fitness Industry" vids. I told him that he needs to do a video on PUFA oils and he said he will eventually. I'm not vegan because I eat milk, parmesan reggiano, eggs, and the occasional yellowfin tuna, beef, and bison.

Did you know that Ray Peat is a vegetarian? That would fit in line with what Vegan Gains' said in his video about intelligence.

From one year ago - "The details vary slightly according to what's available. Daily, milk, fruit (mainly orange juice), eggs, butter, cheese, and coffee. As available, liver, shrimp, squid, oysters, cod, sole, ox-tail soup, chicharrones (puffed pork rind), sapotas, pawpaws, cherimoyas, guanabanas, guavas, carrots, bamboo shoots, small turnips, corundas." - RP

So Ray's daily diet is vegetarian and "as available" diet pescetarian. Yes, he did say he ate ribs for dinner once on a radio show and one of his articles on his site says that fresh GF beef is the best choice if you are going to eat beef. But his own personal diet is minimal/occasioanl beef. With Ray's views on muscle meats, this should be obvious.

Geroge Carlin is one of my all time favorites. :P LOL Carlin was hardly homophobic. Jokes are jokes. Carlin was pro-gay. Don't make me post a video on Carlin ranting with his extreme left wing views. Though, if he were alive today, I'm sure he would distance himself from the PC progressive pigs who can't take a joke, I and he, are certainly not one of those people, and we certainly don't believe that the gov't is the answer to everything.

I've seen your political tone on the other threads. I'll debunk you when I have more time. In the meantime, try to cope with the recent supreme court ruling. Try your best.

 

[Entropy]

From one year ago - "The details vary slightly according to what's available. Daily, milk, fruit (mainly orange juice), eggs, butter, cheese, and coffee. As available, liver, shrimp, squid, oysters, cod, sole, ox-tail soup, chicharrones (puffed pork rind), sapotas, pawpaws, cherimoyas, guanabanas, guavas, carrots, bamboo shoots, small turnips, corundas." - RP

That's not vegetarian..

 

[Westside PUFAs]

That's not vegetarian..

How is a daily diet of "milk, fruit, eggs, butter, cheese, and coffee" not vegetarian?

The occasional liver, oxtail, and pork rinds, are, in fact, occasional. And those are unique foods. They're not muscle meats.

The traditional term vegetarian was originally about one who consumes a diet based on milk, cheese, and fruit. Not a "vegetable" eater.

The context here is that someone like Ray sees the intelligence in not eating meat as in muscle meat, everyday, as opposed to the masses who think that one must eat muscle meats 3 times a day. They are inflammatory, contain too much iron, and cause too many problems when over consumed. Ray has said that muscle meats "turn off the thyroid gland."

That's not to say they offer nothing. One may very well need the iron from red meat. And I personally am concerned with taurine for eye health, which is why I eat yellowfin tuna, beef, and bison occasionally, like a supplement.

 

[Entropy]

Yeah, consuming products from animal fat/skin, and organ meats even "occasionally" is still not vegetarian.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Yeah, consuming products from animal fat/skin, and organ meats even "occasionally" is still not vegetarian.

K.

Don't let a word get you so upset. :caress

 

[Peatress]

Great interview

Jon Venus | From Vegan Body Builder to Living a More Authentic and Healthier Life By Adding Meat​

View: https://www.bitchute.com/video/w4INQTuQ0wS5/

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Yeah, consuming products from animal fat/skin, and organ meats even "occasionally" is still not vegetarian.

Agree. That’s just called being an omnivore.