Vaginal Mapping

[scarlettsmum]

These are fair questions. Of course you could be hit by a truck walking down the street, does that invalidate doing the best that you can? Just because you are going to die one day, should you not strive to live the best life you can, using the best knowledge you can gain?

Kundalini hell can happen, I have seen it, I have read about it, there is a real concern for it when you are doing this kind of thing. But it is so easy to avoid and watch out for. I consider it like a sign that says "watch your step." So simple, but it could prevent you from breaking a hip and having your life change drastically.

I do not concern myself much with how much fear is going around, or tailor my responses to the emotional climate. I want to point out words and actions that are used because people do not know the signs. Something so simple as "this practice is really uplifting and helps balance your energy throughout the day," seems so innocuous. But raising your energy into your brain can overload the circuits, dull your rational ability, and cause an adrenaline surge that really does sustain you through the day until you crash 15 years later.

Every action has a reaction. My hope is that I can point that statement out so that something goes off in your mind when you hear it that causes you to question. Just to ask "well...what do you mean by that?" Get to something concrete.

Besides, how much do you really need to fear a sign that says "watch your step?" Once you know, what is there to fear?



There is a middle ground with spiritual practices where you are awoken to patterns that you can then change for the better. However you are dealing with real forces, and real energy to gain that awakening. If you get overloaded, your mind will blank, and you will be open to being traumatized. Kundalini and tantra are the highest amount of energy you can work with. They need the most grounding. You want to get to that place where energy is high, but roots go low. That way you can both engage your perception of life without overloading the circuits.

My warnings above are centered around identifying ungrounded situations, which involves vampires, buzz words, and getting high. Almost every old master will display patience, lack of rush, small encouragements, lack of schedules in growth, but concrete routine in life...basically listen to Peat with people on the phone.

Of course this all comes from what I have experienced and learned. What else is this place but a place to share that? I do not want to come off as combative and inflammatory, but firm with what I know.

Ok, thanks for explanation although I don't fully understand. One thing I don't understand is this example: A woman that is capable of reaching a vaginal orgasm, would she then be at risk of kundalini hell? If so, it just doesn't make sense to me for something so natural to cause this. I'm not opposing the idea just curious.
So what are your suggestions? The sessions are paid for, what should I watch out for tomorrow?
Anyhow sorry for not giving you a chance before. I was hungry and angry with kids so emotion wise all over the place. Perhaps I was meant to have this exchange with you.

 

[Xisca]

I have only been for one 3 hour treatment today and have 2 more this week.

You really explained well and I am very glad for you!
I just wanted to ask you how long between 2 sessions, because any work that touches the nervous system needs 72h to settle down, so I would advise you to have at least 3-4 days between sessions.

 

[Tarmander]

Ok, thanks for explanation although I don't fully understand. One thing I don't understand is this example: A woman that is capable of reaching a vaginal orgasm, would she then be at risk of kundalini hell? If so, it just doesn't make sense to me for something so natural to cause this.

Having a vaginal orgasm does not qualify you for any kind of hell. However if you were having trouble having an orgasm, and the solution was to up the stimulation, you may start running into issues if you do it over and over again. Let me paint two pictures because that may be easier.

In the first picture, a well meaning inexperienced therapist uses energy raising therapies which cause all kinds of emotions, possibly multiple orgasms, and surging energy throughout your body. Your reactions are called negative energy releases, and you are left more sensitive then you were when you came in. This is called a good thing. You can now be stimulated and have your energy raised more easily.

In the second picture, an experienced therapist raises your energy levels while simultaneously teaching you how to ground that energy. They use the raised energy to point out patterns from your past that you have detailed. You make real connections in how your actions have brought you to where you are in life. You take greater responsibility for your choices, which is not easy, but it feels right. You can take traumas that have happen to you, and really put them behind you without unconsciously acting them out.

So what are your suggestions? The sessions are paid for, what should I watch out for tomorrow?

Look out for the things I have detailed in previous posts. Look out for statements that make you feel good, or give you an emotional response, without actually meaning anything. For example:

•"You are loved." Sounds great, sounds wonderful. Who are you loved by? God? what does his/her/its love look like? Your parents? Well that definitely might not feel true, depending on your experience. Question statements deeper, seek answers.

•"You are accepted, and deeply cherished." Again, who is accepting me? Why are they accepting me? Is it because of something I have done, or is it because of something I am? If it is something I am, and can't change, how useful is that to me in bringing about positive change? Don't be encouraged to believe in empty positive statements as a substitution for real change.

•Watch out for sending energy up the spine without then lowering it into the stomach. Even if they help you lower it, the energy can still be destabilizing.

•Do not do rapid breathing, or anything they say will raise the oxygen in your blood.

•Above all, watch out for how they react to being questioned. If you ask a question, do they shut down? Do they ascribe their actions to beliefs that are unverifiable? Do they get angry? Do they call you names?

A few sessions will probably not hurt you. There are rare cases of one time being too many times, but usually to get into trouble you need to mess up for years, or very intensely for a year, combined with poor diet or starvation or something.

Anyhow sorry for not giving you a chance before. I was hungry and angry with kids so emotion wise all over the place. Perhaps I was meant to have this exchange with you.

It is all good, no harm no foul.

 

[scarlettsmum]

You really explained well and I am very glad for you!
I just wanted to ask you how long between 2 sessions, because any work that touches the nervous system needs 72h to settle down, so I would advise you to have at least 3-4 days between sessions.

Thank you Xisca. I didn't know this, so I had one yesterday on Monday, another one tomorrow Wed and then on Thu. Perhaps I can still move the Thursday appointment to next week.

 

[Xisca]

Yes I guess this is too late to change your tomorrow apointment. So just go quietly as you are in good hands that respect you, no problem. If you let time for integration, then you can gain more profit of the experience. I am sure you still feel some effects, your body is in the organizing phase, processing in its own way the CHANGES.

 

[scarlettsmum]

Having a vaginal orgasm does not qualify you for any kind of hell. However if you were having trouble having an orgasm, and the solution was to up the stimulation, you may start running into issues if you do it over and over again. Let me paint two pictures because that may be easier.

In the first picture, a well meaning inexperienced therapist uses energy raising therapies which cause all kinds of emotions, possibly multiple orgasms, and surging energy throughout your body. Your reactions are called negative energy releases, and you are left more sensitive then you were when you came in. This is called a good thing. You can now be stimulated and have your energy raised more easily.

In the second picture, an experienced therapist raises your energy levels while simultaneously teaching you how to ground that energy. They use the raised energy to point out patterns from your past that you have detailed. You make real connections in how your actions have brought you to where you are in life. You take greater responsibility for your choices, which is not easy, but it feels right. You can take traumas that have happen to you, and really put them behind you without unconsciously acting them out.



Look out for the things I have detailed in previous posts. Look out for statements that make you feel good, or give you an emotional response, without actually meaning anything. For example:

•"You are loved." Sounds great, sounds wonderful. Who are you loved by? God? what does his/her/its love look like? Your parents? Well that definitely might not feel true, depending on your experience. Question statements deeper, seek answers.

•"You are accepted, and deeply cherished." Again, who is accepting me? Why are they accepting me? Is it because of something I have done, or is it because of something I am? If it is something I am, and can't change, how useful is that to me in bringing about positive change? Don't be encouraged to believe in empty positive statements as a substitution for real change.

•Watch out for sending energy up the spine without then lowering it into the stomach. Even if they help you lower it, the energy can still be destabilizing.

•Do not do rapid breathing, or anything they say will raise the oxygen in your blood.

•Above all, watch out for how they react to being questioned. If you ask a question, do they shut down? Do they ascribe their actions to beliefs that are unverifiable? Do they get angry? Do they call you names?

A few sessions will probably not hurt you. There are rare cases of one time being too many times, but usually to get into trouble you need to mess up for years, or very intensely for a year, combined with poor diet or starvation or something.



It is all good, no harm no foul.

Ok, thanks so much! Here are the details of my therapy to share with everyone since it's all here anyhow: I was asked to breathe deeply from my heart to my stomach, I wasn't very happy about that because I didn't want this to cause hyperventilation. Fortunately it was ok. I was also asked to move, my hips, arms, head, whatever I needed. I was also asked to use my voice. I don't remember any sensations on my spine at all. I didn't have any orgasmic experiences. I just wanted the numb points to lose the negative energy they were holding and to feel warm and tingly instead. The therapist asked me if I wanted her to rub any specific point for longer once the sensation became pleasant, but I refused because I wanted to keep on moving treating other areas. Would kundalini be experienced only in an orgasmic state? I must admit it was nothing like I experienced before, my lips and upper arms were so tingly after I had that hysterical crying experience. She didn't use any funny empty phrases like that. And I didn't really ask her anything about the dangers, but will do now when I see her tomorrow. Especially about what do they do about grounding? When I described to her how I experienced out of body experience of my own will due to the level of traumatisation as a child she cried a little and said that I was so young and that we must anchor me in my body. It didn't occur to me to ask her how. She just asked me what I felt when she rubbed certain point. Then I would say weird things like, go away, I don't want you to be there, what do you want, leave me alone, whatever I felt and we worked with that spot until it softened, warmed up, and stopped being negative whatever it may have brought up in the process being crying, laughing, sadness, hurt, etc. One point was particularly stubborn and I kept seeing this hermit, so she asked me to go to him and investigate. I saw an old man with his knees drawn to his chin, greyish hair, balding, but had very young eyes and the skin around them compared to the wrinkled face. As though his eyes belonged to a child. But he wasn't scary in any way. He didn't want to talk to me and refused all physical contact, refused hugs. Upon investigation turned out it was me. He didn't want to meet me though, so I was told to leave him. She suggested it may have meant that I was forced to grow up too fast. I was very lightheaded after the session perhaps due to the breathing. I may skip on that deep breathing next time. Is there any other reason why avoid deep breathing besides hyperventilation?

 

[Xisca]

Such strong sensations, difficult to describe in words. Basically the theory behind it is that women store traumas in their vaginas and it desensitises the tissue. We lose the ability to feel there in order to protect ourselves, we freeze, we learn to disassociate. When we are in a speaking therapy our brain glosses over the really painful stuff, but when we are forced to feel on a physical level, it is extremely powerful.

Right, difficult to describe sensations...
Feel them!
All traumas can remove sensibility, not only in vagina. And a car accident is not stored in our vaginas because we are women. But we indeed have a pelvic diaphragm that Works in harmony with the respiratory diaphragm, or should.... So this place can also be concerned with non sexual trauma I believe, and of course with notions such as limit, joy and love for life. I have been to a tantric course of a week, but that included no sexual touch.
For the rest of my knowledge, it comes from my formation in somatic experiencing, I just tell so that you can get informations from the web, and that I do not imagine things. I do not quote because I have personal practise over the theory, so I just peak naturally about it.

Yes, super important that you noted the good of freeze: protection.
Therapy is there to help what has not gone out of freeze properly, so you melt and the activation comes out!
The activation is stil under the freeze, and you felt it go!
This is very great all the discharges that you experienced! Crying is one, but laughing is very strong.
You do not mention, but didn't you yawn afterward?

I love body approach in therapy, because as you say it is powerful, something goes out.
Just to be more subtle, instead of saying forced to feel, it sounds softer if you say something like you just put attention so that feeling can come... It all happens by itself! well, maybe you force your brain to not interfere!
Then if you expand and feel grreat, this is the integrative process, because this work needs re-organization of the body. That is why I mentionned that time is needed. And rest, not overdo, same as sport!

 

[scarlettsmum]

Actually I did feel sensation on my sitting bone and a back bone (coccyx) a little, but that's all.

 

[Xisca]

Grounding is easy, it is just presence to body sensations. You can do this with the breathing. You can avoid hyperventilation by having longer expires and just be slow. If you have a natural pause after expire, great. If you do it consciously, it helps to get calmer or stand an activation. If you have a nautral sigh, let it happen and be happy, as this is part of the signs of discharge of any sympathic activation!
Please go quietly to your session and stay in your body without going in your mind with questions, that will be a better experience. What you said shows it is ok, from my point of view, I feel you are safe there. And when you are in your body, you are safer to feel whatever is not ok. Even with a good experienced practicioner, we all need to be responsable for our process. You can always say, in body approach, what you feel, if this is too quick, too strong etc. This has nothing to do with doubts but with sharing so that you help the practitioner to help you!

Creating a human bond is also essential, so there is not problem with sentences that tells that you are loved etc. I do not, but any technique has its own way of creating the feeling of bonding. This is necessary to work with the social connection of the vagus nerve, which is lacking in autistic children as far as I know. That is why they are rigid and avoiding eye contact. A therapy work on establishing enough contact to FEEL. If you feel this body experience, just think the therapist have to live the session
also in the body. This is called resonance.
When I tell a person that I am here for her, I mean it, and I use this for grounding purposes, and for creating the connection I need to be present and sustain the person during the process. So if people start to think that there is manipulation, how are we going to work?

 

[Xisca]

The important thing is to see if there are long term changes. There are so many therapies that consist in a simple cathartic experience disguised with any fancy name, that end up being an expensive cathartic experience, that is, an intense emotional discharge. The important thing though is seeing if it lasts, if it heals something in the long run.

Right! A catarsis is too strong and mainly felt at emotional level.
I much prefer safer Little physical discharges.
Scarletmum, if you do not have a very strong reaction each time, no problem, as long as you feel more integrated into yourself, and rooted.

It's difficult to describe, but the change is physical and I feel permanent.
I was told for woman to be able to correct all these issues she must be firmly anchored in her body and due to some traumas I learnt to disassociate from my body, so this is crucial to work on.

Very good signs what you say! Physical change, so good!
With dissociation, when you fully come back, you have to discharge the activation that caused the dissociation, that is why it was so strong, but I would not call it negativity that comes out, only defensive reactions that you could not do before. You are completing the history and closing some chapters.
Edit, because I coud not find this at first...:

Yes, I feel more empowered and motivated, confident.
This therapy is precisely what you talk about, grounding, stopping dissociation through feeling your body now and here.

Stopping dissociation needs feeling the body AND feeling the relationship with the practitioner.
Social engagement is known, especially now thanks to Stephen Porges and the polyvagal theory, to be a very strong help to go out of dissociation.
It helps to take bigger bit without catarsis, and without "going away" aka dissociate again, which you do not want.

 

[scarlettsmum]

Right! A catarsis is too strong and mainly felt at emotional level.
I much prefer safer Little physical discharges.
Scarletmum, if you do not have a very strong reaction each time, no problem, as long as you feel more integrated into yourself, and rooted.

Very good signs what you say! Physical change, so good!
With dissociation, when you fully come back, you have to discharge the activation that caused the dissociation, that is why it was so strong, but I would not call it negativity that comes out, only defensive reactions that you could not do before. You are completing the history and closing some chapters.
Edit, because I coud not find this at first...:

Stopping dissociation needs feeling the body AND feeling the relationship with the practitioner.
Social engagement is known, especially now thanks to Stephen Porges and the polyvagal theory, to be a very strong help to go out of dissociation.
It helps to take bigger bit without catarsis, and without "going away" aka dissociate again, which you do not want.

Thank you so much Xisca for helping me analyse this for me. I feel comforted by your encouraging words and am taking on board your advice. I will let you know how tomorrow goes. I am a bit hesitant but also curious.
Btw. I did yawn and let out a deep sighs of relief, but it was during the therapy, not after. What is meant by social engagement in the polyvagal theory as way of helping to go out of diasssociation?

 

[scarlettsmum]

Right, difficult to describe sensations...
Feel them!
All traumas can remove sensibility, not only in vagina. And a car accident is not stored in our vaginas because we are women. But we indeed have a pelvic diaphragm that Works in harmony with the respiratory diaphragm, or should.... So this place can also be concerned with non sexual trauma I believe, and of course with notions such as limit, joy and love for life. I have been to a tantric course of a week, but that included no sexual touch.
For the rest of my knowledge, it comes from my formation in somatic experiencing, I just tell so that you can get informations from the web, and that I do not imagine things. I do not quote because I have personal practise over the theory, so I just peak naturally about it.

Yes, super important that you noted the good of freeze: protection.
Therapy is there to help what has not gone out of freeze properly, so you melt and the activation comes out!
The activation is stil under the freeze, and you felt it go!
This is very great all the discharges that you experienced! Crying is one, but laughing is very strong.
You do not mention, but didn't you yawn afterward?

I love body approach in therapy, because as you say it is powerful, something goes out.
Just to be more subtle, instead of saying forced to feel, it sounds softer if you say something like you just put attention so that feeling can come... It all happens by itself! well, maybe you force your brain to not interfere!
Then if you expand and feel grreat, this is the integrative process, because this work needs re-organization of the body. That is why I mentionned that time is needed. And rest, not overdo, same as sport!

I know what you are saying about using the word "force" but I felt i need to use the word, because I wasn't happy about it at all. I really didn't want the finger there and I put up lots of resistance and only let go because I realised that I am in a therapy and the therapist is waiting for my response and she is not going to remove the finger because I refuse to feel. So it wasn't violation in any way but rather me realising that I'm here to be treated so I forced myself go through this experience.

 

[DaveFoster]

What an interesting post; sounds very Freudian.

 

[kyle]

I'm just a simple man so pardon my ignorance. Why not just ask your husband for a massage?

 

[ATP]

I'm just a simple man so pardon my ignorance. Why not just ask your husband for a massage?

I was thinking the same thing. Did you essentially just pay someone to rub your vagina?

 

[Tarmander]

Ok, thanks so much! Here are the details of my therapy to share with everyone since it's all here anyhow: I was asked to breathe deeply from my heart to my stomach, I wasn't very happy about that because I didn't want this to cause hyperventilation. Fortunately it was ok. I was also asked to move, my hips, arms, head, whatever I needed. I was also asked to use my voice. I don't remember any sensations on my spine at all. I didn't have any orgasmic experiences. I just wanted the numb points to lose the negative energy they were holding and to feel warm and tingly instead. The therapist asked me if I wanted her to rub any specific point for longer once the sensation became pleasant, but I refused because I wanted to keep on moving treating other areas. Would kundalini be experienced only in an orgasmic state? I must admit it was nothing like I experienced before, my lips and upper arms were so tingly after I had that hysterical crying experience. She didn't use any funny empty phrases like that. And I didn't really ask her anything about the dangers, but will do now when I see her tomorrow. Especially about what do they do about grounding? When I described to her how I experienced out of body experience of my own will due to the level of traumatisation as a child she cried a little and said that I was so young and that we must anchor me in my body. It didn't occur to me to ask her how. She just asked me what I felt when she rubbed certain point. Then I would say weird things like, go away, I don't want you to be there, what do you want, leave me alone, whatever I felt and we worked with that spot until it softened, warmed up, and stopped being negative whatever it may have brought up in the process being crying, laughing, sadness, hurt, etc. One point was particularly stubborn and I kept seeing this hermit, so she asked me to go to him and investigate. I saw an old man with his knees drawn to his chin, greyish hair, balding, but had very young eyes and the skin around them compared to the wrinkled face. As though his eyes belonged to a child. But he wasn't scary in any way. He didn't want to talk to me and refused all physical contact, refused hugs. Upon investigation turned out it was me. He didn't want to meet me though, so I was told to leave him. She suggested it may have meant that I was forced to grow up too fast. I was very lightheaded after the session perhaps due to the breathing. I may skip on that deep breathing next time. Is there any other reason why avoid deep breathing besides hyperventilation?

Interesting. Sounds like some type of intense massage. I would definitely do as someone else cautioned and space out your treatments by at least a week, probably more so that you can really absorb what is going on here and whether it is benefiting you. Kundalini can be experienced while orgasming and while not orgasming. The lightheaded and tingling feeling you talk about would probably have me running for the hills, but you have to make the call here. I think this thread has enough info to make some good decisions.

 

[scarlettsmum]

I'm just a simple man so pardon my ignorance. Why not just ask your husband for a massage?

I was thinking the same thing. Did you essentially just pay someone to rub your vagina?

Yes, you can, if you can get past the strong initial resistance and be prepared on how to handle anything that comes up. That's the next step for us.

 

[scarlettsmum]

the tingling feeling was only after overcoming the initial resistance with cry. I'm left with the thought that people often exaggerate. That's not a personal attack in any way but my own way of dealing with fear regarding the treatment. I am annoyed with myself for being so easily overwhelmed by other people's opinions. Anyhow I'm still grateful for the info.
@Tarmander

 

[Xisca]

Thank you so much Xisca for helping me analyse this for me. I feel comforted by your encouraging words and am taking on board your advice. I will let you know how tomorrow goes. I am a bit hesitant but also curious.
Btw. I did yawn and let out a deep sighs of relief, but it was during the therapy, not after. What is meant by social engagement in the polyvagal theory as way of helping to go out of diasssociation?

Great! These signs of relief are what you can NOTICE, and not look for, to know what happens in you, good habit for everyday life. They signal shifts in the nervous system.
If you can find what else I already wrote about the subject of our autonomous nervous system, you will recognize much of your experience.
I usually do not have internet Access as much as this week, so I wrote more than usual, but will not any more, I am in the airport to go home....
What blocks us in our behaviours is a freeze in the nervous system, which is like a brake over the accelerator going on under the freeze (or dissociation, same process).
The human relationshhip is what makes the balance to support you going out of the freeze and discharge the strong activation that is underneath.
This balance is what is in question in autism too, thus all the rigidity...
Catharsis is also a discharge, but the integration part after is more important, so that you keep the result and do not freeze again. Nothing is for ever, so you have to feel the process to be able to do it again each time you go out of the balance. Life is like waves, and it is normal to dissociate when the body needs it as a protection, but you have to come back from it, and this is done through discharges, that are as small as sighs and yawnings when you do it all day long as animals do.
You can do this only through contact with the body, which can be impaired in most of us.
That is why you need a therapist and not only a massage by someone who does not know what is going on!
(to answer those who asked....)
Integration of the experience is essential to be autonomous with the results.

 

[Xisca]

the tingling feeling was only after overcoming the initial resistance with cry. I'm left with the thought that people often exaggerate. That's not a personal attack in any way but my own way of dealing with fear regarding the treatment. I am annoyed with myself for being so easily overwhelmed by other people's opinions. Anyhow I'm still grateful for the info.

The tingling was also a discharge.
I understand what you said about forcing by the way, it was partly forcing your mind, as the result came from the natural surrender of your body when there was a shift at physiological level. Also, the forcing was a memory in your body, every time we have frozen in our lifes and kept our mouth shut as a child for example...
So you felt the resistance of the fibers in your body, you became physically conscious trough the touch, and you allowed your body to process in a natural way what was going on, and your body made the shift, because it wants to! It is just so difficult to do it alone...
And we are not educated about how to let our bodies adapt, we do not notice the discharges because we do not know what they are. And if we let time to feel and integrate, the nervous system can stabilize and move with up and down fluidly. Stress is when you stay up all the time. It would be like not going to bed so that you do not have to get up the next morning! Or not shutting the door because you will have to open it again!
We have to build trust in our bodies.