Vaccines And Autism, The Selye Relationship?

[LucyL]

I've been reading Selye's the Stress of Life lately, and it is quite interesting. I thought of it this morning when I read yet another vaccine-autism denial headline Autism tied to high levels of prenatal steroid hormones. I'm far from convinced one way or the other if vaccines "cause" autism or if all that is just a crazy conspiracy theory, but it doesn't really seem that people are thinking about it from a whole body perspective.

Selye's favorite thing to test his General Adaptation Syndrome was to create an air pocket under the skin on the back of rat and then inject stuff in it. Simply by doing this he could consistently produce the generalized stress reaction he spent his life studying.

I can't help but see the similarity between injecting stuff into an air pocket under the skin and injecting stuff (agents like rubella, measles, hepatitis, chicken pox etc. etc) into the middle of a muscle group.

What exactly do people think happens when you get vaccinated?

There are many different factors that govern the body's response to the stressor, but as usual, modern science is too busy looking for genetic determinant factor than studying the general stress reaction to vaccines (or any stressing agent that affects children, because certainly some non-vaccinated children develop autism too) and pinpointing ways to identify those children who might not be good candidates for traditional vaccinations. I'm not a biologist, but I can't help thinking the latter path might be quicker.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Actually a good portion of the vaccine is a substance intended to cause stress. This is aluminium in the most basic case. Most vaccines would be wasted with just a natural immune reaction around it.

 

[LucyL]

That's a good point. There was a study done showing that giving acetaminophen within 24 hours of a vaccine reduced the vaccine's effectiveness. It would be interesting to know if it also reduced the frequency of autism symptoms appearing.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I'm sure a stress like that in a delicate period, a delicate health, or a combination of those can trigger development problems in the brain or start some vicious inflammatory circles. At the most intuitive level autism would be this kind of constant inflammatory and inadequate mood, but I don't know if the kids who got it after vaccination also have the actual brain abnormalities. Surely there are better ways in which an adjuvant can act and surely adding some glutathione to the formulations should be thought about, but neither are in the interest of a money driven manufacturer.

 

[Salty]

I know this is an older thread, but I am currently reading the same book (The Stress of Life) and had some of the same thoughts. As Such_ said, vaccines are meant to be stressors, otherwise the body would not respond. The terminology used is that adjuvants "boost" the immune response. I would say a more biologically apt description would be that they "kick it [the immune system] in the ba!!s" to force it to respond.

The most common adjuvant is alum (aluminum salts). From, "Uric Acid : A Possible Mediator of the Adjuvant Effect of Alum in Mice Immunized with Ovalbumin" (N. Al-akl, 2011) :

"One proposed mechanism by which alum enhances an immune response is by its ability to induce an inflammatory response that results in the release of uric acid from necrotic cells. Uric acid is thought to be a mediator in enhancing the immune response. The aim of this study was to investigate the immunopotentiating effect of uric acid." After some experimentation on mice with and without alum they conclude that, "All groups that received alum had the highest levels of nitric oxide when compared to the groups that were not given alum. In conclusion, it appears that uric acid might be a mediator in the adjuvant effect of alum."

Similar report from a paper in Nature, "DNA released from dying host cells mediates aluminum adjuvant activity" (Marichal, 2011):

"Aluminum-based adjuvants (aluminum salts or alum) are widely used in human vaccination, although their mechanisms of action are poorly understood. Here we report that, in mice, alum causes cell death and the subsequent release of host cell DNA, which acts as a potent endogenous immunostimulatory signal mediating alum adjuvant activity. "

As Petrovsky, states, the safety of such a pro-inflammatory response from an adjuvant (like alum, which is in the Hepatitis B vaccine given to infants on the FIRST day of birth, among others) is, "the elephant on the room":

Vaccine adjuvant safety: the elephant in the room (Petrovsky, 2013):

"In the development of vaccine adjuvants, the issue of adjuvant safety is the elephant in the room; it is the single most important issue in adjuvant development but is rarely, if ever, included as a discussion topic at vaccine meetings. Why is the issue of adjuvant safety so rarely discussed? Most likely, it is the fear that antivaccine lobbyists may take such discussions and use them out of context in anti vaccine propaganda. But should the risk of being misquoted justify the reluctance of vaccinologists to debate issues of adjuvant safety? A quick literature review reveals thousands of published studies on adjuvant potency but only a handful of studies on adjuvant safety. However, absence of evidence of a problem is not evidence of absence of a problem."

Yes, surely there are better ways to facilitate immunity than through forced cellular death.

 

[Salty]

That's a good point. There was a study done showing that giving acetaminophen within 24 hours of a vaccine reduced the vaccine's effectiveness. It would be interesting to know if it also reduced the frequency of autism symptoms appearing

Evidence would actually indicate the reverse. There is some evidence that administration of acetaminophen at the same time as vaccination may be implicated in autism (as in, its not just the stress of the vaccine, but the metabolic stress of vaccine+acetaminophen that may be implicated in some cases of autism).

From Prenatal and perinatal analgesic exposure and autism: an ecological link (Bauer, 2013):

"Several lines of evidence suggest that medication use in pregnancy and early childhood may play a role in ASD etiology. Specifically, Torres and, Becker and Schultz, have hypothesized that paracetamol (acetaminophen, N-acetyl- p-aminophenol, or APAP) has increased ASD risk. It has been shown that autistic children have a decreased capacity to sulfate paracetamol, which is the primary metabolic route for children. When paracetamol is metabolized through the alternative routes it has been shown in humans to induce oxidative stress and immune dysregulation. A recent investigation found transcriptomic changes in full-genome human miRNA expression indicating, for the first time, immune modu- lating effects and oxidative stress responses to paraceta- mol even at low doses. Studies in animals have shown paracetamol to induce apoptosis and neurotoxicity. Several studies hypothesize increased apoptosis in the autistic brain.

Paracetamol is one of the most common antipyretic analgesic medicines worldwide. In 1980, after sufficient evidence emerged of an association between salicylates [aspirin] and Reyes syndrome, paracetamol essentially replaced aspirin as the primary treatment of fever in children and pregnant women. Since that date, paracetamol consumption throughout the world has increased dramatically"

Further, they state:

"Observing the correlation between two parallel time trends is of limited inferential utility; however the paracetamol – ASD link is strengthened by an observation first made by Becker and Schultz. In 1982 and again in 1986, product tampering led to a few bottles of a leading brand of paracetamol tablets being contaminated with cyanide. In each case, a rapid and brief decline in paracetamol sales occurred, with the long term upward trend recovering within a year. In three populations for which good data are available, Becker and Schultz noted that brief dips in the rising autism prevalence curves mirrored these sales anomalies. The prevalence curves continued their upward trend after 1988."

This is depicted graphically in Figure 1 here:
Similarities in features of autism and asthma and a possible link to acetaminophen use (Becker and Schultz, 2010)

And yes, a major study in the Lancet has shown that administering acetaminophen along with vaccines decreases the antibody response:

Effect of prophylactic paracetamol administration at time of vaccination on febrile reactions and antibody responses in children: two open-label, randomised controlled trials (Prymula, 2009):

"Although febrile reactions significantly decreased, prophylactic administration of antipyretic drugs at the time of vaccination should not be routinely recommended since antibody responses to several vaccine antigens were reduced."

Yet, Tylenol is still commonly recommended by pediatricians. (On personal note, I have a friend with a husband in the navy. The navy clinic, at this particular location at least, apparently gives out a bottle of Tylenol at EVERY visit, regardless of whether or not it is needed. Like a mint. It blows my mind given how much is known about acetaminophen toxicity and how easy it is to overdose.)

 

[Such_Saturation]

Where does it say that?

 

[Salty]

Where does it say what?

 

[Such_Saturation]

Regarding acetaminophen at the time of vaccination and autism.

 

[Salty]

Acetaminophen (paracetamol) use, measles-mumps-rubella vaccination, and autistic disorder: the results of a parent survey (Schultz, 2008)

"The present study was performed to determine whether acetaminophen (paracetamol) use after the measles-mumps-rubella vaccination could be associated with autistic disorder. This case-control study used the results of an online parental survey conducted from 16 July 2005 to 30 January 2006, consisting of 83 children with autistic disorder and 80 control children. Acetaminophen use after measles-mumps-rubella vaccination was significantly associated with autistic disorder when considering children 5 years of age or less (OR 6.11, 95% CI 1.42-26.3), after limiting cases to children with regression in development (OR 3.97, 95% CI 1.11-14.3), and when considering only children who had post-vaccination sequelae (OR 8.23, 95% CI 1.56-43.3), adjusting for age, gender, mother's ethnicity, and the presence of illness concurrent with measles-mumps-rubella vaccination. Ibuprofen use after measles-mumps-rubella vaccination was not associated with autistic disorder. This preliminary study found that acetaminophen use after measles-mumps-rubella vaccination was associated with autistic disorder."

Yes, this was a small preliminary study and involved parental input (gasp!), but this is what the first two studies linked above expand on, looking at it from a broader angle and with potential mechanisms in mind.

But yes, the first two I cited only refer to an association between general acetaminophen use in infancy (or prenatally by the mother) and autism, and don't mention a specific time frame. But, knowing that its common to give Tylenol before and/or after immunizations and knowing that both are significant metabolic stressors, it would follow that the two combined close in time might have a greater effect than when given independently of one another.

Its just an association with a plausible biological mechanism that may be relevant to SOME autism, particularly the regressive kind as noted in the quote above.

 

[haidut]

post 100666 Acetaminophen (paracetamol) use, measles-mumps-rubella vaccination, and autistic disorder: the results of a parent survey (Schultz, 2008)

"The present study was performed to determine whether acetaminophen (paracetamol) use after the measles-mumps-rubella vaccination could be associated with autistic disorder. This case-control study used the results of an online parental survey conducted from 16 July 2005 to 30 January 2006, consisting of 83 children with autistic disorder and 80 control children. Acetaminophen use after measles-mumps-rubella vaccination was significantly associated with autistic disorder when considering children 5 years of age or less (OR 6.11, 95% CI 1.42-26.3), after limiting cases to children with regression in development (OR 3.97, 95% CI 1.11-14.3), and when considering only children who had post-vaccination sequelae (OR 8.23, 95% CI 1.56-43.3), adjusting for age, gender, mother's ethnicity, and the presence of illness concurrent with measles-mumps-rubella vaccination. Ibuprofen use after measles-mumps-rubella vaccination was not associated with autistic disorder. This preliminary study found that acetaminophen use after measles-mumps-rubella vaccination was associated with autistic disorder."

Yes, this was a small preliminary study and involved parental input (gasp!), but this is what the first two studies linked above expand on, looking at it from a broader angle and with potential mechanisms in mind.

But yes, the first two I cited only refer to an association between general acetaminophen use in infancy (or prenatally by the mother) and autism, and don't mention a specific time frame. But, knowing that its common to give Tylenol before and/or after immunizations and knowing that both are significant metabolic stressors, it would follow that the two combined close in time might have a greater effect than when given independently of one another.

Its just an association with a plausible biological mechanism that may be relevant to SOME autism, particularly the regressive kind as noted in the quote above.

Acetaminophen is highly serotonergic, so combined with the vaccine's own serotenrgic activity I am not surprised if it can damage the CNS and cause "autism".

 

[Waynish]

Why isn't ischemia a more often proposed mechanism? It seems like a reasonably quick way to cause damage - and the heavy metals going right into the bloodstream could quickly cause blockage:
Vaccinations are causing impaired blood flow (Ischemia), Chronic Illness, Disease and Death for us all | VacTruth.com
(No need to trust the source - think about the mechanism)

In our forum, few are studying - with experience - the effects of anything directly into the bloodstream. And regardless of denial of the existence of the immune system, how isn't injecting foods directly into the bloodstream an accepted mechanism for causing food allergies? (If you look at vaccine ingredients, then you'll often find them.) Have any of you read, "The Peanut Allergy Epidemic"?

 

[TreasureVibe]

Bump!!!

 

[Whataboutbob]

I've been reading Selye's the Stress of Life lately, and it is quite interesting. I thought of it this morning when I read yet another vaccine-autism denial headline Autism tied to high levels of prenatal steroid hormones. I'm far from convinced one way or the other if vaccines "cause" autism or if all that is just a crazy conspiracy theory, but it doesn't really seem that people are thinking about it from a whole body perspective.

Selye's favorite thing to test his General Adaptation Syndrome was to create an air pocket under the skin on the back of rat and then inject stuff in it. Simply by doing this he could consistently produce the generalized stress reaction he spent his life studying.

I can't help but see the similarity between injecting stuff into an air pocket under the skin and injecting stuff (agents like rubella, measles, hepatitis, chicken pox etc. etc) into the middle of a muscle group.

What exactly do people think happens when you get vaccinated?

There are many different factors that govern the body's response to the stressor, but as usual, modern science is too busy looking for genetic determinant factor than studying the general stress reaction to vaccines (or any stressing agent that affects children, because certainly some non-vaccinated children develop autism too) and pinpointing ways to identify those children who might not be good candidates for traditional vaccinations. I'm not a biologist, but I can't help thinking the latter path might be quicker.

 

[Whataboutbob]

 

[johnwester130]

how do you explain the correlation between facial shape and autism ?

there's some studies about it

 

[Peatress]

CDC Estimate On Autism Prevalence Increases To 1 In 36 Children In U.S.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) released today its update on autism's estimated prevalence among the nation's children.

www.forbes.com

 

[Peater]

how do you explain the correlation between facial shape and autism ?

there's some studies about it

I saw a post in a Trump thread that mentioned that. Minor physical anomalies. After reading Every Vaccine Produces Harm which was posted here, I find it easy to believe. In fact I believe I can now with some degree of confidence identify some lifelong issues I have had as some form of vaccine damage. Possibly the MMR. No way to prove of course, the final truth of the matter is lost to history.