Vaccine: Twenty countries suspend injections; does that make you “hesitant?”

tankasnowgod

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The evidence for the pandemic is not seriously disputable, not withstanding your posts on the subject. If you don't want to call it a pandemic it's all the same to me. However, more than 2 000 000 people worldwide have died of COVID-19. Even if your country is as spectacularly good at attributing fictional deaths, there are still more than 2 000 0000 deaths from COVID-19 in the rest of the world.

You keep saying "died OF Covid," notwithstanding the fact that THE PEOPLE TALLYING THE DEATHS TOLD YOU OTHERWISE-


So I think in this country we’ve taken a very liberal approach to mortality and I think the reporting here has been pretty straightforward over the last five to six weeks. Prior to that when there wasn’t testing in January and February, that’s a very different situation and unknown. There are other countries that if you had a preexisting condition and let’s say the virus caused you to go to the ICU and then have a heart or kidney problem, some countries are recording that as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death. Right now we’re still recording it and the great thing about having forms that come in and a form that has the ability to mark it as COVID-19 infection, the intent is right now that if someone dies with COVID-19 we are counting that as a COVID-19 death.

The ONLY interpretation there is that different countries tallying deaths differently. I never said "fictional deaths" or that 500,000 people didn't die in America, for example. That's silly. There are about 2.8 Million deaths in America EVERY YEAR. So, if you have a test that's easily manipulated that doesn't actually detect a virus, like the PCR test, you can use it re-brand 500,000 of the 2.8 Million expected deaths as "COVID deaths," with no proof of an increase of all cause mortality.

And considering "The Flu" has "mysteriously disappeared" in many countries this year, well, rebranding those deaths seems like the leading possibility.

And again, if you understood context, that about 56 Million people die every year, and that 3.91 Million are normally attributed to Respiratory Diseases, it's not hard to see how you could re-brand about half of those reparatory deaths as 2 Million COVID deaths, especially if you give financial incentives to doctors to list it on the death certificates.

And, of course, you are assuming that whoever is attributing cause of death is 100% perfect with it. "Yes, well, you see, this gentleman hard terminal cancer, but we determined it was a COVID death, because, uh, he also had a runny nose and fever. Those are symptoms of COVID, you see, so, it must be the virus." And again, the estimates the entire time were that 88-99% of so called "Covid deaths" had serious underlying conditions.

Really, the only evidence you have is that number, a number where different countries have different standards at different times, and will come down to a judgment call at time of death or autopsy (if there even is an autopsy). You can't even admit this much about the number you keep citing.
 
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Giraffe

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Pleased to see that Germany's excess mortality rate appears to have come right down since a couple of months ago (our world in data).
What stupid game is this? This has no relevance to my post which you were replying to. And it is not true either. There has not been anything unusual a couple of months ago, but now the January and February figures do look worrying. Germany started vaccination on 27 December.


Related post:

Let's compare data for Germany. First picture from ourworldindata. Second picture official German statistics. You see that nothing was going on in Germany. No excess mortality. It's only towards the end of the year that the numbers were rising, and they were only rising in age group 80+.
 
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tankasnowgod

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Are you insisting that all of the following are baseless, or just the last one?:

[1]COVID-19 is a disease caused by an infectious virus.
[2]It has killed a minority of people who became infected with it.
[3]More than 2 million people so far.
[4]Some of the vaccines have been shown to significantly reduce the rate of severe illness or death from COVID.
[5]A smaller number of people have died after taking the vaccine. It is not yet clear what/whether there was a causal link.
[6]There may be some risk from the new vaccines, but so far, subject to further info, they seem much smaller risks than the risks of COVID-19 infection.

The last of those points is my assessment of the situation, and others may interpret the situation differently. The rest of those I'm pretty confident about as facts from a range of reputable sources.

Ah yes, This list of six items is where your hypocrisy and/or ignorance truly shines. I take issue with all 6 of those points, but I want to just focus on 2 and 5.

You keep saying "COVID has killed..." So, here is England's current definition for a "COVID death"


Public Health England has changed its definition of deaths. The new definition is now death in a person with a laboratory-confirmed positive COVID-19 test and died within (equal to or less than) 28 days of the first positive specimen date will now be reported

You can confirm that on this government document, page 4- https://assets.publishing.service.g..._PHE_Data_Series_COVID_19_Deaths_20200812.pdf

So, one single test is the ONLY thing required to go down as a COVID death, within a 28 day period (at least in England). Even if those people have known pre-existing conditions, which over 88% do.

By the same logic....... shouldn't any death that happens within 28 days of a vaccine go down as a vaccine death? Why is a causal link "unclear" in the case of a vaccine (especially a rushed to market experimental one that doesn't have approval), but crystal clear, in your eyes, after one single lab test for a virus? If anything, it's much clearer in the case of a vaccine, because there is clear real world evidence if a shot was given or not. It's unclear if there is actually a "novel corona virus" present after a PCR test, as it is prone to false positives, potentially due to lab error (like all tests), and from higher cycle counts. So, why this double standard?
 
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By the same logic....... shouldn't any death that happens within 28 days of a vaccine go down as a vaccine death? Why is a causal link "unclear" in the case of a vaccine (especially a rushed to market experimental one that doesn't have approval), but crystal clear, in your eyes, after one single lab test for a virus? If anything, it's much clearer in the case of a vaccine, because there is clear real world evidence if a shot was given or not. It's unclear if there is actually a "novel corona virus" present after a PCR test, as it is prone to false positives, potentially due to lab error (like all tests), and from higher cycle counts. So, why this double standard?
Very well said.
 

Nighteyes

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Ah yes, This list of six items is where your hypocrisy and/or ignorance truly shines. I take issue with all 6 of those points, but I want to just focus on 2 and 5.

You keep saying "COVID has killed..." So, here is England's current definition for a "COVID death"




You can confirm that on this government document, page 4- https://assets.publishing.service.g..._PHE_Data_Series_COVID_19_Deaths_20200812.pdf

So, one single test is the ONLY thing required to go down as a COVID death, within a 28 day period (at least in England). Even if those people have known pre-existing conditions, which over 88% do.

By the same logic....... shouldn't any death that happens within 28 days of a vaccine go down as a vaccine death? Why is a causal link "unclear" in the case of a vaccine (especially a rushed to market experimental one that doesn't have approval), but crystal clear, in your eyes, after one single lab test for a virus? If anything, it's much clearer in the case of a vaccine, because there is clear real world evidence if a shot was given or not. It's unclear if there is actually a "novel corona virus" present after a PCR test, as it is prone to false positives, potentially due to lab error (like all tests), and from higher cycle counts. So, why this double standard?
Totally agree. Thanks for bringing logic into all the covid threads you reply to
 

Perry Staltic

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That's pretty aggressive. Seems like I said something that didn't match a particular part of your world view, and now you are accusing me of fabricating everything I say?

It's not that you're fabricating everything you say, but that virtually everything you say (on this mattter) is simply repeating the official talking points with the usual word manipulations, artificial framings, logical fallacies, inconsistencies, misdirections, ignoring and glossing over of facts, straw men, etc. I see no original, independent thought. You sound more like a marketing representative or sales person than someone seeking the truth.
 

Perry Staltic

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The evidence for the pandemic is not seriously disputable, not withstanding your posts on the subject

Actually it is disputable. The WHO changed the definition of pandemic to mean an infectious agent of non-human origin appearing in two or more countries. Pretty meaningless without including mortality; makes it easy to call run-of-the-mill stuff pandemics.
 

Lyla

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As opposed to relying on the stories that the fact checkers were checking?
Then who's fact checking the fact checkers? I think I heard Dr Peat mentioning this in an interview. But I guess he is not "a relevant expert" on COVID or public health.
 
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Steve

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A debate could go on forever between those who believe the media and the vaccine-supporting studies, and those who don't.
Sometimes I have to stop reading and imagine this virus was never mentioned.

I have seen two people with colds in the past year and a half. That's it.
The cashier's at my grocery stores are all alive & well even though they encounter hundreds of people every day.
I even asked the cashier last time if she knew of anyone with Covid and she did not.
When I walk past my hospital it is very quiet and appears almost empty.
There is nothing special happening that I can see!

I don't see proof of a horrible pandemic worthy of all this fear, and masking, and experimental gene therapy.
This appears to be nothing but a giant hoax and mass experiment, and unfortunately people are consumed by fear and are voluntarily giving up control of their freedoms and their bodies.

If I was going to meet some of the true believers half way then I think the Great Barrington Declaration sounds reasonable. It also has the backing of thousands of so-called experts just like the media stories and studies that are thrown around.
 

LA

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Okay, you first.


100% completely WRONG. We don't know that even a single person has died "of" or "from" Covid. We know that well over 2 Million people have died with COVID listed as a cause of death, or written on their death certificates. They are "COVID Associated Deaths." Not necessarily causal. You continue to IGNORE what Birx said in her Coronavirus task force meeting, where everyone who died with COVID, even if they were actually suffering from other known serious conditions would go down as a COVID death. She used the example of kidney failure. If they test positive on a PCR test (which can be easily manipulated, as has been discussed on this forum numerous times), they go down as COVID. Sometimes, they are listed as COVID deaths without any tests at all.

How many times have I posted this Motorcycle Crash death in direct response to you? I'd say at least 3 times.


Estimates vary that as many as 88-99% of people listed as "COVID deaths" had serious underlying conditions.


You ignore all the data that challenges the idea that we are in a "pandemic" or that COVID is somehow uniquely deadly, as well as ignoring the insane risks from experimental mRNA shots, rushed to market drugs, likely fraud in these vaccine trials, and even the fact that drug companies couldn't develop a vaccine for ANY coronavirus prior to 2020, despite decades of trying.
Yes! - someone falls off a ladder and the death is blamed on covid. The agenda is scary. No truth is being delivered to the public. People have to dig for facts in the midst of the lockdown. This is mentally debilitating for many/most people and is another one of the goals of this creepy, fear mongering covid-agenda.
 

LA

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More evil lying on a daily basis. Push back and ignore is what people need to do to have the strength to ignore the Covid fear mongering. Many have paid attention to Minister Louis Farrakhan and Robert Kennedy Jr.
Farrakhan has a good chant; No to the Toxic Waste - Vial of Death
 

Mossy

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Vaccines vaccines vaccines.. why is the word "vaccine" all over the controlled information outlets round the clock? 24/7 365.

A few weeks ago it was Trump, Vaccines, Trump, Vaccines.. the media is like a little deranged toddler that is fixated and can't break the gaze.
When social media first took over my thought was we've entered into a perpetual high school mentality. I think your comment about toddlers is even more fitting. We've regressed even farther than the low common denominator of high school. Which seems to be exactly where the powers that be want us—as children that can be controlled and manipulated.
 

tankasnowgod

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Vaccines vaccines vaccines.. why is the word "vaccine" all over the controlled information outlets round the clock? 24/7 365.

A few weeks ago it was Trump, Vaccines, Trump, Vaccines.. the media is like a little deranged toddler that is fixated and can't break the gaze.

They aren't a "deranged toddler." They are using the most basic form of mind control..... repetition-



Also, don't forget who "the media's" true customers are...... the advertisers. The viewers/listeners are simply the commodity. When one of your biggest customers is a vaccine investor who turned 1 billion into 20 Billion, and now wants to double, quadruple, or get a 10x on that 20 billions....... well, that could certainly influence your stories now, couldn't it?



 

yerrag

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This is the third page and I'm amazed no one has noticed the biggest elephant in the room:

Tara has been kidnapped and she's held against her will. Her Ray Peat account has been hijacked.

She doesn't speak or write this way.
 

Hugh Johnson

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Actually it is disputable. The WHO changed the definition of pandemic to mean an infectious agent of non-human origin appearing in two or more countries. Pretty meaningless without including mortality; makes it easy to call run-of-the-mill stuff pandemics.
By that definition we have countless pandemics going on.
This is the third page and I'm amazed no one has noticed the biggest elephant in the room:

Tara has been kidnapped and she's held against her will. Her Ray Peat account has been hijacked.

She doesn't speak or write this way.
Yes she does. She argued in a similar way when defending obesity years ago.
 

Perry Staltic

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This is the third page and I'm amazed no one has noticed the biggest elephant in the room:

Tara has been kidnapped and she's held against her will. Her Ray Peat account has been hijacked.

She doesn't speak or write this way.

She communicates like she's a paid online mouthpiece for certain official narratives. The learned, repetitive, carefully crafted, manipulative language is too obvious. Maybe it's part of her 9-5, Mon-Fri job. This year she has only commented on Mon-Fri, and this week and last her heavy engagement on vaccines suddenly stopped as soon as the weekend arrived.
 

yerrag

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She communicates like she's a paid online mouthpiece for certain official narratives. The learned, repetitive, carefully crafted, manipulative language is too obvious. Maybe it's part of her 9-5, Mon-Fri job. This year she has only commented on Mon-Fri, and this week and last her heavy engagement on vaccines suddenly stopped as soon as the weekend arrived.
How long has Tara been on this forum? Since the first year? Wasn't she once a moderator?

I remember in her posts to me that she has a tone that speaks to being mindful, thoughtful, and helpful. Like you know you're talking to a person and not wood nor a robot.

Great catch noticing her recent routine. I wonder how long this has been going on.

I doubt Tara is a plant since the early years. That she has managed to post so much, being in the top posters in the forum, makes me think she was a different person.

I know the last time she and I interacted was when she accused me of being racist towards Jews. Yet that didn't raise any red flags, as she has been a bit on the PC side of things.

It's not in her profile to be one so attached to mainstream fake news. She's not that stupid. It surprises me she would be taking the cudgel for fake mainstream COVID news.

Her last reply to Giraffe was totally a robot-generated response that talking heads would use. Wonder what her producer and director was thinking letting on such a tell.
 

yerrag

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By that definition we have countless pandemics going on.

Yes she does. She argued in a similar way when defending obesity years ago.
I hope we have a language expert to analyze her writing style, maybe do a simple diagram analysis of her style.

I could be wrong but it's just my gut feel. I can also hear a robotic cadence in her replies.
 

Maljam

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I hope we have a language expert to analyze her writing style, maybe do a simple diagram analysis of her style.

I could be wrong but it's just my gut feel. I can also hear a robotic cadence in her replies.

You are absolutely the strangest poster on this forum. Getting a language expert to create diagrams of her writing style, that's getting a bit weird to be honest. Anyone that disagrees with you = an account run by a pharmaceutical company that is secretly infiltrating us.

She barely posts any more, you think they'd be doing a better job if it's true. Maybe she spends time with her family on the weekend? Peat has spoken about having days away from his computer and technology, maybe tara doesn't use the internet on a weekend. Maybe she works weekends and is too busy to look at her phone? Have you considered any of these possibilities?

Maybe she just has a life away from this forum?
 
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