Using Progest-e as Contraceptive

[dogtrainer]

Has anyone used progesterone to suppress ovulation and avoid pregnancy? What exactly were your doses and methods of administration? Any failures?

how will you know if ovulation is truly being suppressed?

 

[xeliex]

Watching out of sheer interest.

 

[Lollipop2]

Has anyone used progesterone to suppress ovulation and avoid pregnancy? What exactly were your doses and methods of administration? Any failures?

how will you know if ovulation is truly being suppressed?

Estrogen does this not progesterone. Progesterone will help you get pregnant. That is why the birth control pills are all estrogens. They accurately should have called them the abortion pills - but that would be politically incorrect. I remember Ray telling a story about this in one interview - I would never be able to remember which one so forgive me in advance.

 

[xeliex]

Estrogen does this not progesterone. Progesterone will help you get pregnant. That is why the birth control pills are all estrogens. They accurately should have called them the abortion pills - but that would be politically incorrect. I remember Ray telling a story about this in one interview - I would never be able to remember which one so forgive me in advance.

Yeah makes sense. Some of them pills use progestins which work more like an estrogen than progesterone

 

[Lollipop2]

Yeah makes sense. Some of them pills use progestins which work more like an estrogen than progesterone

+1

 

[Blossom]

There’s an old thread somewhere on the forum discussing coating a diaphragm with progest-e but I’m currently not finding it.

 

[Blossom]

First, the topic is delicate, so the expression here is cautious. To be clear, NO form of contraception is 100% effective. The possibility of conception exists with intercourse, and participants should keep that in mind even if probabilities "seem" small. There are lots of views about birth control, intercourse, and conception. Only anecdotal methodology is discussed here.

For background, though progesterone is named to be "pro" "gestational", progesterone would seem to have a role in preventing further conceiving after one implantation. That is, women who have intimate relations during pregnancy do not have overlapping pregnancies.

I do not have experience with huge oral/transdermal uses of progesterone for contraception. IMNHE, huge amounts of progesterone are not frequently needed a main metabolic support. As Lanthir mentioned, using huge doses of progesterone for birth control beyond supportive amounts might bring impairing sedation/sleepiness/anesthesia among other concerns.

The idea, as Blossom mentioned and Dr. Peat described, is applying Progest-E gently through the vagina to the cervix region. It has been a while since this maneuver-my recollection is the volume of drops is 3 to 6 drops. As mentioned in some posts, some batches of Progest-E have a thicker consistency than others. When necessary, a small bit of coconut oil was used to help Progest-E spread across the target area.

The application was done shortly before intercourse (less than a few hours, not necessarily just before). In serious comedy, I recall that one application was used per evening session, but the number of performances was in the single digits...

Though, as with any topical application, there is the possibility of systemic effects, no side effects like sedation, accelerated metabolism, or other things were noticed. Occasional use of Progest-E in this way did not seem to alter the pattern of individual menstrual cycles.

The general approach was discussed with Dr. Peat, though I do not recall asking about barrier methods in combination. All couples, sharing the concern of additive effectiveness, used Progest-E plus a barrier method (condom or diaphragm). Keep in mind that the sample size here is quite small: less than two dozen couples besides myself and partner. With some humor, I'll say that I have no data about the total number of sessions each couples used the application.

There were no unwanted pregnancies with this combined Progest-E/barrier method. Of the several couples who later wished to conceive, all successfully had healthy babies (and uneventful pregnancy and delivery) after discontinuing contraception.

Again, the sample size was small so not necessarily representative, and all those involved understood the responsibilities if conception took place. Even beyond the usual forum disclaimer, this is NOT medical advice and is for discussion purposes only.

 

[Lollipop2]

Interesting @Blossom. That would certainly be safer than estrogen. I do know the diaphragm is estrogenic. Maybe the progesterone protects the woman from the estrogenic device that is effective from its estrogenic quality?

 

[Blossom]

Interesting @Blossom. That would certainly be safer than estrogen. I do know the diaphragm is estrogenic. Maybe the progesterone protects the woman from the estrogenic device that is effective from its estrogenic quality?

I’m not sure which particular diaphragm was used. I believe there are ones that are simply a barrier to the cervix that don’t contain hormones at all but perhaps the material itself is estrogenic? I’m certainly no expert on diaphragms and have not needed birth control myself for a long time. I just figured it might be a helpful quote for this thread.

 

[Lollipop2]

I’m not sure which particular diaphragm was used. I believe there are ones that are simply a barrier to the cervix that don’t contain hormones at all but perhaps the material itself is estrogenic? I’m certainly no expert on diaphragms and have not needed birth control myself for a long time. I just figured it might be a helpful quote for this thread.

Having had two clients using diaphragms suffering from heavy estrogen symptoms, I found out they are tough on women. Convincing them off and to use natural rhythm method dramatically changed their lives.

I think it is interesting about progesterone. Thank you for sharing.

 

[lampofred]

First paragraph of chapter 16 of From PMS to Menopause talks about using progesterone for contraception (but it's a bit vague): FROM PMS To MENOPAUSE : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

I think he also talked about it in an interview before, but I don't remember which one.

 

[Lollipop2]

First paragraph of chapter 16 of From PMS to Menopause talks about using progesterone for contraception (but it's a bit vague): FROM PMS To MENOPAUSE : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

I think he also talked about it in an interview before, but I don't remember which one.

I have heard this from Peat several times - again I do not remember the interviews. It honestly makes the most sense. Nice sharing the book info. Thank you @lampofred.

 

[Blossom]

Having had two clients using diaphragms suffering from heavy estrogen symptoms, I found out they are tough on women. Convincing them off and to use natural rhythm method dramatically changed their lives.

I see, that’s good to know. I had no idea and sincerely didn’t mean to be passing on information that could potentially be problematic. My apologies.

 

[Epistrophy]

I know Dr. Peat said in an interview doctors would make a mold of the cervix and cast it in gold to make a diaphragm. Dr. Peat said that method created a perfect seal.

 

[Lollipop2]

I know Dr. Peat said in an interview doctors would make a mold of the cervix and cast it in gold to make a diaphragm. Dr. Peat said that method created a perfect seal.

I think they are not using gold. Here is one maker’s choices:

These materials can be grouped into three primary families: rubber, thermoplastic elastomer(TPE) and polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE).

And another’s materials:


ETHYLENE PROPYLENE (EPDM): -30° F to 300° F

NEOPRENE (CR): -20° F to 200° F

SOFT NATURAL RUBBER (NR): -30° F to 180° F

VITON® (FKM): -20° F to 300° F

TEFLON® TFE/EPDM: -30° F to 300° F

BUTYL: -20° F to 250° F

I see, that’s good to know. I had no idea and sincerely didn’t mean to be passing on information that could potentially be problematic. My apologies.

Oh my sweet @Blossom, you are not spreading any information that could be problematic! I was just reflecting on the progesterone addition to the diaphragm because I had seen bad experiences and I wondered if the progesterone OR the diaphragm itself worked. Trying to wrap my head around things. You are amazing and waaay more knowledgeable than me - lol. I always appreciate your input.

 

[boris]

Ray Peat: "[progesterone] "if used before intercourse, it prevents conception, and thus is a true contraceptive, while estrogen is an abortafacient, not a contraceptive.
Many women use it vaginally, spread onto a diaphragm, to hold it in contact with the membranes."

I saw that you mentioned progesterone as an effective contraceptive. Dr. Katherina Dalton talks about 100-200 mg progesterone used from day 8 of the woman's cycle up to the beginning of menstruation with a 2.5% failure rate. You mention applying progesterone on a diaphragm; what do you think is an effective method, and how much Progest-E should be used in your opinion?

"The people I knew used a 10% solution of progesterone in vitamin E (Progest-E Complex) on a plastic diaphragm at the time of intercourse, leaving it in for a day or two. The diaphragm was coated on both sides, so there was probably about 400 or 500 mg of progesterone."

Or orally:

Yes, sorry for the late reply, that's were I found it, too.


Start on Day 8 of the cycle with a low dose of progesterone, and keep it up until menstruation or - for PMS sufferers - the day when you start on the bigger, anti-PMS dose. A daily dose of 100 mg (half a 200 mg suppository) or a 400 mg suppository are equally effective. (Many women who will use 400 mg of progesterone two to six times daily from ovulation onwards prefer to take one 400 mg suppository in the follicular phase rather than having to get 200 mg suppositories as well.)

Progesterone contraception for PMS...

A low dose (100-200 mg) of progesterone from Day 8 of the cycle
Increase to optimum progesterone dosage at ovulation
Continue progesterone until menstruation
A study of progesterone contraception in women with severe PMS showed 15 failures in 253 women who had used progesterone contraception for an average of 5.82 years. This means a failure rate of 2.66 per 100 women/years (women/years is a ratio that encompasses 100 women using a method of contraception for one year, 50 women using it for two, etc.), which compares favourably with the recognized failure rate of the condom of 14, diaphragm of 12, rhythm method 24, and intra-uterine device of 2.5 per 100 women/years.



Read more: http://www.progesteronetherapy.com/prog ... z2RCgftrp6
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution

Failure rates: Oral progesterone 2.6%, the estrogen pill 4%, condoms 14% (probably due to bad handling I imagine)

 

[Lollipop2]

Ray Peat: "[progesterone] "if used before intercourse, it prevents conception, and thus is a true contraceptive, while estrogen is an abortafacient, not a contraceptive.
Many women use it vaginally, spread onto a diaphragm, to hold it in contact with the membranes."



Or orally:


Failure rates: Oral progesterone 2.6%, the estrogen pill 4%, condoms 14% (probably due to bad handling I imagine)

Great thank you @boris! I knew he spoke about it. How true that estrogen acts like an abortion.

 

[Beastmode]

ME:
How can progesterone (i.e- progest-e) be used as a contraceptive?

Would a certain amount have to be applied inter-vaginally prior to intercourse?

RAY:
I know women who used it successfully, applying it to both sides of a plastic diaphragm, and leaving it in after intercourse.

 

[Lollipop2]

ME:
How can progesterone (i.e- progest-e) be used as a contraceptive?

Would a certain amount have to be applied inter-vaginally prior to intercourse?

RAY:
I know women who used it successfully, applying it to both sides of a plastic diaphragm, and leaving it in after intercourse.

Awesome everyone. It seems clear progesterone is a good contraceptive and estrogen will give you an abortion. One good thing about this inquiry, I learned about all the materials they use in diaphragms and now clearly understand why they are not healthy for women.

 

[Epistrophy]

I think they are not using gold. Here is one maker’s choices:

These materials can be grouped into three primary families: rubber, thermoplastic elastomer(TPE) and polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE).

And another’s materials:


ETHYLENE PROPYLENE (EPDM): -30° F to 300° F

NEOPRENE (CR): -20° F to 200° F

SOFT NATURAL RUBBER (NR): -30° F to 180° F

VITON® (FKM): -20° F to 300° F

TEFLON® TFE/EPDM: -30° F to 300° F

BUTYL: -20° F to 250° F

Oh my sweet @Blossom, you are not spreading any information that could be problematic! I was just reflecting on the progesterone addition to the diaphragm because I had seen bad experiences and I wondered if the progesterone OR the diaphragm itself worked. Trying to wrap my head around things. You are amazing and waaay more knowledgeable than me - lol. I always appreciate your input.

Yeah Peat said they stopped doing the gold and silver casting a long time ago. Those are all cheaper materials. If anything I would buy gold and have someone do it !! haha