Using a Biometric scale to infer changes in bone health over time. (N=1)

David PS

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Messages
14,675
Location
Dark side of the moon
In December of 2014, I ordered a body fat scale. My intention was to establish a baseline for my muscle weight and fat weight. I recorded readings for all the various measurements on a spreadsheet which calculated my muscle to fat ratio. Body fat scales are reputed to be inaccurate for whatever reason. My interest is looking for trends and so as long as the scale is consistent the accuracy of the measurement is not important to me. My bathroom is always off by a pound or two and I just deal with it by looking a the trend.

I noticed that my bone weight increased over time. I first noticed it when the increase was 10%, which I interpreted as being good news. That is, a healthy change in bone health. My total body weight did not change enough to account for the increase in bone weight.

In November of 2020 I purchase a new body fat scale. It was splurge at Amazon that cost less than $30.. The new scale is smart phone compatible and it records the results on my phone. The new body fat scale was manufactured by a different company but it gave me the same result for my bone weight. I assume the two companies used the same algorithm. Today, my bone weight is 20% higher than it was in 2014 when I first started recording my measurements.

As a general rule, peak bone mass decreases with age (after about 50 years of age) and the incident fracture risk increases age. Unless your monitoring your bone weight (mass) you cannot tell what is going on in your body.


Peat has written about bone density.
 

yerrag

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
10,883
Location
Manila
How did you determine your bone weight percentage from a scale that measures both weight and body fat percentage?
 

Blossom

Moderator
Forum Supporter
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Messages
11,031
Location
Indiana USA
In December of 2014, I ordered a body fat scale. My intention was to establish a baseline for my muscle weight and fat weight. I recorded readings for all the various measurements on a spreadsheet which calculated my muscle to fat ratio. Body fat scales are reputed to be inaccurate for whatever reason. My interest is looking for trends and so as long as the scale is consistent the accuracy of the measurement is not important to me. My bathroom is always off by a pound or two and I just deal with it by looking a the trend.

I noticed that my bone weight increased over time. I first noticed it when the increase was 10%, which I interpreted as being good news. That is, a healthy change in bone health. My total body weight did not change enough to account for the increase in bone weight.

In November of 2020 I purchase a new body fat scale. It was splurge at Amazon that cost less than $30.. The new scale is smart phone compatible and it records the results on my phone. The new body fat scale was manufactured by a different company but it gave me the same result for my bone weight. I assume the two companies used the same algorithm. Today, my bone weight is 20% higher than it was in 2014 when I first started recording my measurements.

As a general rule, peak bone mass decreases with age (after about 50 years of age) and the incident fracture risk increases age. Unless your monitoring your bone weight (mass) you cannot tell what is going on in your body.


Peat has written about bone density.
Congratulations, this is fascinating. Would you mind sharing the scale you use?
 
OP
David PS

David PS

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Messages
14,675
Location
Dark side of the moon

Blossom

Moderator
Forum Supporter
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Messages
11,031
Location
Indiana USA
I got one for $24.99 and did a baseline measurement yesterday. Like you mentioned mine is one pound different than the antique doctor’s office scale I normally use. I’m really interested in doing what I can to improve or at least maintain my bones since my mom had severe disabling osteoporosis. I was told I had it in my femoral neck per dexa scan couple years ago. I suspect the results were off because they normally don’t account for short stature on those tests. The results were decent and it will be interesting to follow the trend over time. Thanks @David PS
B106A986-F965-47C0-A888-A2413701F585.png 5826D6DD-D119-43CF-AE72-FBAA277F2C41.png 35A05CE2-BD05-4A8F-B783-DF6B4C1F4766.png
 

yerrag

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
10,883
Location
Manila
Thanks for showing what the app does Blossom. It answers my unanswered question. Without the screenshot I really had no idea what David was talking about.

The weighing scale and app combo for leas than $30 is a great value. It sure beats the Tanita body fat scale I had years ago which I haven't replaced since it broke.

Now this would make me get a weighing scale.
 

Blossom

Moderator
Forum Supporter
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Messages
11,031
Location
Indiana USA
Thanks for showing what the app does Blossom. It answers my unanswered question. Without the screenshot I really had no idea what David was talking about.

The weighing scale and app combo for leas than $30 is a great value. It sure beats the Tanita body fat scale I had years ago which I haven't replaced since it broke.

Now this would make me get a weighing scale.
Yes, it seems a great deal for tracking and getting a rough estimate. I’m sure you could get more accurate data spending lots of money but for such a low cost it seems more than adequate for my purposes.
 

yerrag

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
10,883
Location
Manila
Yes, it seems a great deal for tracking and getting a rough estimate. I’m sure you could get more accurate data spending lots of money but for such a low cost it seems more than adequate for my purposes.
I'm more certain of the weight accuracy than that of the bone percentage. But as David said, it isn't as important as the direction of bone percentage over time.

Like you, I'm satisfied with whet it does for the price I'm getting it for. Sure beats knowing later when it's too late about the bone condition.

I believe a lot of old people think their hips broke after a fall when they're old, not knowing it was their weak bones that aelf-fractured causing them to fall.
 
OP
David PS

David PS

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Messages
14,675
Location
Dark side of the moon
I got one for $24.99 and did a baseline measurement yesterday. Like you mentioned mine is one pound different than the antique doctor’s office scale I normally use. I’m really interested in doing what I can to improve or at least maintain my bones since my mom had severe disabling osteoporosis. I was told I had it in my femoral neck per dexa scan couple years ago. I suspect the results were off because they normally don’t account for short stature on those tests. The results were decent and it will be interesting to follow the trend over time. Thanks @David PS
View attachment 41552View attachment 41551 View attachment 41553
It was a great idea to post images of your results. Tracking over time (whenever your want to track) is a real advantage. There is no need to wait 5 years between bone scans.
 

Blossom

Moderator
Forum Supporter
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Messages
11,031
Location
Indiana USA
It was a great idea to post images of your results. Tracking over time (whenever your want to track) is a real advantage. There is no need to wait 5 years between bone scans.
Thank you, I’ve been planning to get a repeat scan at some point. Covid through everything off of course and I stopped taking as good of care of myself tbh.

I’ve read the wrist might be a better indicator for petite people. I’m primarily interested in bone and muscle.

I like this summary screen the best.
 

Attachments

  • 83B0BEA4-59DB-476B-B5E2-9DD507C7C2C0.png
    83B0BEA4-59DB-476B-B5E2-9DD507C7C2C0.png
    71.6 KB · Views: 26
OP
David PS

David PS

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Messages
14,675
Location
Dark side of the moon
Thank you, I’ve been planning to get a repeat scan at some point. Covid through everything off of course and I stopped taking as good of care of myself tbh.

I’ve read the wrist might be a better indicator for petite people. I’m primarily interested in bone and muscle.

I like this summary screen the best.
Great is sound like you have a plan. I like the 'trends' text which is in grey at the bottom of the summary screen on my device. I can click on it and view the trends for each of the items in the summary screen one at a time. For instance, I can scroll through my weight and see how it varies from reading to reading for about 2 years.
 

yerrag

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
10,883
Location
Manila
Getting your weight is the last thing I'm interested in. Whether I'm normal or overweight. A scale makes me waste time getting weighed each day. It's better to just get a feel from the girth of your waist especially when your pants tighten.
I weigh myself only when I go to the diagnostics lab for blood tests. I test my CBC more often than I weigh myself.

Even the body fat percentage I don't care about. After a while, you just know when you look in the mirror. I have a handheld Tanita bodyfat measurer (if that's a word) and I haven't used it in years.

But if this scale is directionally accurate with regarding to bone percentage, it wold be worth it.

But living a Peaty lifestyle bone-wise which includes having enough daily calcium and sunshine and having good sugar metabolism, as reflected in good blood sugar control and good acid-base balance which disposes towards having normal weight without a need to follow the workout regimen - almost guarantees great bone health.

The Renpho setup is mere confirmation of what you're doing right. It is nice to see the bone percentage increasing and give yourself a pat in the back.
 
Last edited:

Blossom

Moderator
Forum Supporter
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Messages
11,031
Location
Indiana USA
Great is sound like you have a plan. I like the 'trends' text which is in grey at the bottom of the summary screen on my device. I can click on it and view the trends for each of the items in the summary screen one at a time. For instance, I can scroll through my weight and see how it varies from reading to reading for about 2 years.
Im curious how often you measure? I’d think it would only need to be done a few times per year if someone is doing it to track bone density?
 

yerrag

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
10,883
Location
Manila
You guys convinced me so I went to my Lazada shopping app and found the Renpho scale.

To my dismay it is selling for the equivalent of $60. Turns out there are so many similar units being sold. And I saw this selling the equiv of $9-

It's a Hyundai! but I'm not sure if the quality is that of it. Measures everything the Renpho does. But the reviews here are not useful. So if I go for it, I'm risking $10.

But I'm just after directional accuracy, so I should be fine I hope.
 

Attachments

  • 2022-09-04 13.12.09.jpg
    2022-09-04 13.12.09.jpg
    239.7 KB · Views: 14
OP
David PS

David PS

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Messages
14,675
Location
Dark side of the moon
Im curious how often you measure? I’d think it would only need to be done a few times per year if someone is doing it to track bone density?
A few times a year is good to check bone weight.
 
OP
David PS

David PS

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Messages
14,675
Location
Dark side of the moon
You guys convinced me so I went to my Lazada shopping app and found the Renpho scale.

To my dismay it is selling for the equivalent of $60. Turns out there are so many similar units being sold. And I saw this selling the equiv of $9-

It's a Hyundai! but I'm not sure if the quality is that of it. Measures everything the Renpho does. But the reviews here are not useful. So if I go for it, I'm risking $10.

But I'm just after directional accuracy, so I should be fine I hope.
It looks like you found a great deal online for your scale. I think these scales have been around for a decade or more and that by now they probably all use the same algorithms. Electronics are easy to reverse engineer.

I also monitor my viseral fat. Thin on the Outside, Fat (viseral fat) on the Inside is referred to as TOFI. Some people have alot of unheathy visceral fat and yet they are still relatively skinny. Others have a protrubing belly but it is all subcutanous fat and very little of the unheathy viseral fat. It is not a major concern for me but as long as the device provides the numbers I look to make certain that I am not becoming a TOFI. The same for sarcopendia. I look at the weight of my muscle. Muscle mass is easier to self monitor than viseral fat but it is nice to have the numbers and to be able to look for trends over time.

I am in my late 60's and so I think about aging gracefully and body composition is part of it. Once again, I only consider these things a few times each year. Often just after the holidays.;)
 
Last edited:

Blossom

Moderator
Forum Supporter
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Messages
11,031
Location
Indiana USA
A few times a year is good to check bone weight.
Thanks!
I am in my late 60's and so I think about aging gracefully and body composition is part of it.
That’s what I’m after too. My mom passed in her late 60’s so I think it’s important to be mindful of these things and not naively assume all is well.

Good deal @yerrag, please keep us posted!
 

yerrag

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
10,883
Location
Manila
It looks like you found a great deal online for your scale. I think these scales have been around for a decade or more and that by now they probably all use the same algorithms. Electronics are easy to reverse engineer.

I also monitor my viseral fat. Thin on the Outside, Fat (viseral fat) on the Inside is referred to as TOFI. Some people have alot of unheathy visceral fat and yet they are still relatively skinny. Others have a protrubing belly but it is all subcutanous fat and very little of the unheathy viseral fat. It is not a major concern for me but as long as the device provides the numbers I look to make certain that I am not becoming a TOFI. The same for sarcopendia. I look at the weight of my muscle. Muscle mass is easier to self monitor than viseral fat but it is nice to have the numbers and to be able to look for trends over time.

I am in my late 60's and so I think about aging gracefully and body composition is part of it. Once again, I only consider these things a few times each year. Often just after the holidays.;)
Very interested on the TOFI. How do you monitor it?

Happy you have a good handle of aging gracefully. Do you discuss these things with your contemporaries? I would imagine it to be too much of a mountain for them to climb.

Thanks!

That’s what I’m after too. My mom passed in her late 60’s so I think it’s important to be mindful of these things and not naively assume all is well.

Good deal @yerrag, please keep us posted!
It's very tempting to buy it. I'm holding off on it though, not because I don't agree with the use of the scale for tracking none mass, but I'm kinda neck deep with my markers for my focus on high bp. I feel that it's easy to get buried in tracking many things that it becomes a big chore.

I hope I can get around to it in the near future.
 

Blossom

Moderator
Forum Supporter
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Messages
11,031
Location
Indiana USA
It’s been about a month since I got my biometric scale so I got on this morning out of curiosity. Not much has changed as I expected but it was interesting that it estimated my metabolic age as 48 and 1 month ago it estimated it as 49. That’s one measurement I like seeing go down! I don’t know how accurate it is but I like it.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom