Urine PH And Acid-Base Balance And Monitoring It With Urine PH Test Strips

[yerrag]

If the kidneys excrete acid when the blood/ECF is acidic, and excrete base when it is alkaline, and if the urine that comes out reflects that, would the sole use of urine pH test strips be a cost-effective way to monitor the state of our body's acid-base balance?

I noticed when I gave my mom plenty of fresh fruit and vegetable juices to drink, her urine pH would be at 7.5. Ever since, I've wondered why and as of late, I think I've begun to understand why. For one, she wasn't eating plenty of protein anymore, and that must lessen the acidic load from protein intake, and secondly, the fruit and vegetable juices have plenty of alkalinic minerals, as well as anions that would metabolize into bicarbonates.

In the past year, I've experimented with different salts of magnesium ranging from chlorides to bicarbonates, including glycinates, acetates, ascorbates, and carbonates. I've felt the results of using magnesium chlorides for 5 months, that I suspect led to a state of metabolic acidosis, whereby I would urinate often even when my bladder barely contains urine, and this has led to health issues. This made me swing the pendulum seemingly excessively towards using magnesium bicarbonate, which again led to excessive urination, and which I suspect was because it brought about metabolic alkalosis.

Now, having thought a lot about it, and having learned more about acid-base balance, thru the posts of @Amazoniac, @tara and @Jennifer, yet not quite understanding urine pH fully, I thought about the idea using urine pH test strips to monitor the state of the body's acid-base balance.

It sounds too simplistic though, as this seems like the proverbial low-hanging fruit that everyone's not touching. I was thinking: what if in the course of supplementing with the various magnesium salts at therapeutic quantities, I were able to monitor the effect of each magnesium salt by simply using urine pH test strips?

Would I have detected that my urine acidity was too low after a long-term (or even short-term) use of magnesium chloride, by simply getting a low pH reading from a urine sample? Would that allow me to change to another magnesium salt in time to prevent me from getting to the point of being sick to connect the dots? Would maybe a reading of pH=6 have alerted me to it?

Or when I went to using magnesium bicarbonate, would a pH of say 7.7 have alerted me to a developing or developed case of metabolic alkalosis?

Or how about when I ate a large steak each of the 3 meals, would I see my urine pH plummet?

Or how about using the urine pH strips as an aid in fine-tuning our daily food intake, short of having to calculate our estimated PRAL values?

I feel there's more to this than just correlating body acid-balance to urine pH, but maybe it's just this plain simple. Would appreciate your thoughts on this.

 

[Jennifer]

Or when I went to using magnesium bicarbonate, would a pH of say 7.7 have alerted me to a developing or developed case of metabolic alkalosis?

No, the opposite, from my understanding. A high urine pH means that we're retaining acids from metabolic byproducts/cellular waste, pharmaceuticals, environmental toxins etc., interstitially.

Or how about when I ate a large steak each of the 3 meals, would I see my urine pH plummet?

IME, not necessarily. If our lymphatic system (the body's sewer system which makes up 80% of interstitial fluid, blood makes up the other 20%) and kidneys aren't healthy — our kidneys aren't able to filter out the waste (sediment in the urine) — we could still be losing/excreting alkaline minerals and retaining the acidic byproducts even if something acidic were ingested.

Urine pH is also dependent on the health of our other tissues. For example — the health of our thyroid and parathyroid glands which are the main tissues responsible for our largest organ, the skin. Since the skin is one of our eliminative organs, if our thyroid and parathyroid glands have suffered degeneration as is the case with hypo and hyper conditions, our skin may not be eliminating waste/acids well and this can be reflected in our UpH.

Or how about using the urine pH strips as an aid in fine-tuning our daily food intake, short of having to calculate our estimated PRAL values?

Sure. Some other things I find useful to keep track of are my filtration (sediment in urine), my systolic blood pressure (reflects adrenal health) and diastolic blood pressure (reflects kidney health) on both arms (the right side reflects the right kidney and adrenal and the left side reflects the left kidney and adrenal), and my temps.

 

[Dan W]

I don't have anything to add on how to interpret it, but I've found it interesting to monitor. I've noticed you have to account for some natural variability that initially confused me when trying to dial in a particular PRAL level:
The diurnal variation in urine acidification differs between normal individuals and uric acid stone formers

 

[tara]

I don't think I understand this well enough, so these are tentative thoughts, not confident ones.

I think testing UpH to get an idea of systemic state may be best done at least 2 hours after meals, and not before breakfast, because it will be affected by the night fast and short-term digestive processes.
Probably good to measure several times and average, rather than just once.
Regular measurements of less than 6.2 would seem to me that they might indicate a shortage of alkaline buffers. Time to reduce meat and/or increase foods with alkaline minerals, consider supps.
Regular measures of higher than 7.00 (or 6.8) would seem to maybe indicate somewhat alkaline state - might be time to reduce alkaline supps a bit, have more vit-C rich fruit, etc?.
It's not just direct alkalosis or acidosis themselves that are potential problems. When the system is too far from optimal pH homeostatis, it has difficulty digesting and using elements in nutrition for system maintenance, repair, function.

While some foods generally tend to have particular effects on pH, this can sometimes vary depending on individual state - eg if they are not able to digest something well, it may not have the typical effect. It's the effect things have you individually that matters.

I think Jennifer probably has a more detailed understanding of some of this. I saw some interesting posts by poster Jenn on the subject a couple of years ago, too.

Or when I went to using magnesium bicarbonate, would a pH of say 7.7 have alerted me to a developing or developed case of metabolic alkalosis?

I think if you were overdoing supplements that tend to have alkalising effects, in relation to the rest of your nutrition, then it wouldn't surprise me if you would eventually get an indicator from higher UpH. If you were regularly getting 7.7, I'd consider reducing the more alkaline forms.

Or how about when I ate a large steak each of the 3 meals, would I see my urine pH plummet?

I don't know how long it would take to have effect - and it woudl depend on rest of diet. If you were eating lots of veges etc with those steaks, you might be able to keep it in balance, I don't know. But if the UpH was showing consistently low, that might be worth reducing the size of your steaks, increasing fruit and veges, and seeing if it returned closer to normal?

When there are plenty of buffers, the system can handle more.

Or how about using the urine pH strips as an aid in fine-tuning our daily food intake, short of having to calculate our estimated PRAL values?

The RBTI approach is largely based on tailoring diet to the needs of an individual based on measurements including UpH. It's not entirely straight forward. There is more to it than just this one parameter, important though it may be.
Did you look at the thread on Reams/RBTI?

 

[yerrag]

No, the opposite, from my understanding. A high urine pH means that we're retaining acids from metabolic byproducts/cellular waste, pharmaceuticals, environmental toxins etc., interstitially.

Thanks for making me have to think this through Jennifer I have to say that I am confused. Is there any qualification to that statement, that high urine pH means we're retaining acids interstitially?

I'm thinking there would a situation where high urine pH ( for the sake of discussion, high urine pH being above 7) means that there is high serum/ecf alkalinity corresponding to a case of metabolic alkalosis, and that the kidneys are excreting alkaline fluids to correct that imbalance.

I hope you'll see why I'm just having difficulty understanding this. If the urine pH being high means we're retaining acids (and that would not be good), would this mean that the urine always has to be lower in pH ( less than 7) to establish that we're not retaining acids?

What would the urine pH be like then when the body is in a metabolic alkalotic condition and the kidneys are able to do their job compensating for the excess alkalinity? Wouldn't it simply excrete more bicarbonates in the urine, and thus increase the pH of the urine above pH of 7?

The RBTI approach is largely based on tailoring diet to the needs of an individual based on measurements including UpH. It's not entirely straight forward. There is more to it than just this one parameter, important though it may be.

 

[yerrag]

ME, not necessarily. If our lymphatic system (the body's sewer system which makes up 80% of interstitial fluid, blood makes up the other 20%) and kidneys aren't healthy — our kidneys aren't able to filter out the waste (sediment in the urine) — we could still be losing/excreting alkaline minerals and retaining the acidic byproducts even if something acidic were ingested.

This makes plenty of sense. This would mean that in order to use urine pH as a basis for determining the state of our body's acid-base balance, one has to be certain that his lymphatic system and his kidneys are working well. This begs the question: how do we know if our lymphatic system is working well? With kidneys, it's easier to test right? I use the Urine ACR test (albumin-creatinine ratio).

Sure. Some other things I find useful to keep track of are my filtration (sediment in urine), my systolic blood pressure (reflects adrenal health) and diastolic blood pressure (reflects kidney health) on both arms (the right side reflects the right kidney and adrenal and the left side reflects the left kidney and adrenal), and my temps.

Good info.

AIUI, just peeing into a glass jar and checking it for sediments would do the job of checking the filtration?
How does systolic blood pressure indicate adrenal health? And diastolic blood pressure for kidney health? This is very interesting.

 

[yerrag]

I don't have anything to add on how to interpret it, but I've found it interesting to monitor. I've noticed you have to account for some natural variability that initially confused me when trying to dial in a particular PRAL level:
The diurnal variation in urine acidification differs between normal individuals and uric acid stone formers

Thanks Dan. I have to be conscious then of taking the urine pH reading at the same time each day as I monitor it.

I think testing UpH to get an idea of systemic state may be best done at least 2 hours after meals, and not before breakfast, because it will be affected by the night fast and short-term digestive processes.
Probably good to measure several times and average, rather than just once.

Thanks Tara.

So, to get more reliable data as basis, I should try to do this 3x/day, and average readings. And do it 2 hours after each meal. Got it!

Regular measurements of less than 6.2 would seem to me that they might indicate a shortage of alkaline buffers. Time to reduce meat and/or increase foods with alkaline minerals, consider supps.
Regular measures of higher than 7.00 (or 6.8) would seem to maybe indicate somewhat alkaline state - might be time to reduce alkaline supps a bit, have more vit-C rich fruit, etc?.

I'm glad you offered some numbers to work with. There's a range to play with as far as urine pH goes - 6.2 to 6.8. I have to go look at my past records or urine pH. The optimal range they have is 6.5 - 6.8 pH, which checks out with yours, although they have a tighter range. In 2002, I had a urine pH of 6.94. This was right before I developed hypertension. In 2009, it was 6.12. In 2011, it went further down to 5.46. Last April, my urine pH was 8. That was when I was taking 4 grams of baking soda a day for a week. I stopped my experiment there and then. I can see now how bad my condition went with pH at 5.46. I was a candidate to form uric acid stones, based on the link @Dan Wich shared.

It's not just direct alkalosis or acidosis themselves that are potential problems. When the system is too far from optimal pH homeostatis, it has difficulty digesting and using elements in nutrition for system maintenance, repair, function.

Yup. I think so too. We play within a range, but having a target value would be better. Just like blood pH of 7.4, instead of the range 7.35-7.45.

I think if you were overdoing supplements that tend to have alkalising effects, in relation to the rest of your nutrition, then it wouldn't surprise me if you would eventually get an indicator from higher UpH. If you were regularly getting 7.7, I'd consider reducing the more alkaline forms.

Very true, as I had recounted just now with my baking soda experience. You and Jennifer warned me about it then, but I had to try it. But now, I can only thank you both for warning me about it.

The RBTI approach is largely based on tailoring diet to the needs of an individual based on measurements including UpH. It's not entirely straight forward. There is more to it than just this one parameter, important though it may be.
Did you look at the thread on Reams/RBTI?

I looked at the thread once, I got to the RBTI webpage I think. I had to be a member to learn more. It may be free to be a member, but I didn't proceed. Right now, RBTI is still Greek to me. Will have to check back on the thread and read it.

 

[tara]

Yup. I think so too. We play within a range, but having a target value would be better. Just like blood pH of 7.4, instead of the range 7.35-7.45.

IIUC, Carey Reams said optimal was 6.4; healing range 6.2 - 6.8. When fighting cancer, safer to be at the higher part of range.
But unless you have very strong buffers - and it takes a while to build them up if they've become depleted over the years - likely not easy to easy to maintain stability.

 

[yerrag]

But unless you have very strong buffers - and it takes a while to build them up if they've become depleted over the years - likely not easy to easy to maintain stability.

By buffers, do you mean having enough alkaline reserves in the tissues - magnesium, potassium, calcium, and sodium ? As well as the CO2, carbonic acid, and bicarbonate system?

 

[tara]

By buffers, do you mean having enough alkaline reserves in the tissues - magnesium, potassium, calcium, and sodium ? As well as the CO2, carbonic acid, and bicarbonate system?

I don't understand it well, but I think ideally we might have reserve stores of a number of elements and substances to draw on to help maintain homeostasis - both the alkaline and the acidic, not just one side?

 

[Mito]

https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2017/08/16/measuring-urine-ph-got-love-working/

 

[tara]

And both metabolic rate and breathing habits influence system pH too.

 

[yerrag]

No, the opposite, from my understanding. A high urine pH means that we're retaining acids from metabolic byproducts/cellular waste, pharmaceuticals, environmental toxins etc., interstitially.

That must explain why I found it odd that after drinking fresh fruit and vegetables juices, my mom's urine pH was high at around 7.5 -8.

I suppose that wouldn't be happening to you, as you eat plenty of fruits and veggies. There must be something wrong with her lymphatic system. Her kidneys were fine, but at her age, her filtering capacity isn't that good anymore though.

I don't understand it well, but I think ideally we might have reserve stores of a number of elements and substances to draw on to help maintain homeostasis - both the alkaline and the acidic, not just one side?

And both metabolic rate and breathing habits influence system pH too.

And the liver is involved as well, as it breaks down an amino acid (not sure if it's glutamic acid) to produce ammonia, to pair with sulfates and chlorides and then these being excreted through urine. Having good metabolism, a healthy liver, kidneys, and a fine-tuned lymphatics system together with ample stores of minerals in body tissues will allow the body to maintain acid-balance. It also helps that we don't put unnecessary acid loads in our diet, and that we take in alkalinic foods to pair with the necessary acidic loads.

https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2017/08/16/measuring-urine-ph-got-love-working/

I'm glad Chris went through the same experience I had, and was able to share it. I'm gonna buy the Hydrion pH paper then. I was thinking about it over the more expensive and fancy pH papers, but this seals the decision for me. Thanks!

 

[tara]

I'm gonna buy the Hydrion pH paper then.

I think I was using Hydrion too.

 

[yerrag]

I think I was using Hydrion too.

I ordered my pH strips. I should hopefully have them in 2 weeks.

Since I overdid my sodium bicarbonate intake, I hope to use the strips to monitor my bicarbonate intake, but it will be with potassium instead of sodium. Currently, I'm being very conservative with my potassium bicarbonate intake.

I read though the 4 pages of the RBTI thread you started 2014. I got caught up with the urine pH aspect of it. I downloaded the books linked to by burtlancast. Hopefully, I can be able to read them, but they are on a long queue of reading materials I've downloaded and plan to read.

The saliva pH part wasn't discussed much, but I'd like to touch that sometime but the subject of urine pH is enough for now.

 

[Obi-wan]

I do potassium bicarbonate and sodium bicarbonate together (1/4 teaspoon each) but I also mix it with apple cider vinegar (2 tablespoons) in 6 ounces of water. This makes a potassium/sodium acetate which when combined with coenzyme A makes acetyl CoA which feeds the Krebs cycle in the mitochondria. I notice an increase in energy and clear nose breathing. I do mid morning and mid afternoon between meals. Urine PH goes from 6 to 7 measured in the AM. Resting membrane cell potential should be -70 to -80 mV with inner potassium and outer sodium per Wikipedia...

 

[yerrag]

I ordered my pH strips. I should hopefully have them in 2 weeks.

Since I overdid my sodium bicarbonate intake, I hope to use the strips to monitor my bicarbonate intake, but it will be with potassium instead of sodium. Currently, I'm being very conservative with my potassium bicarbonate intake.

I was disappointed when I took my urine pH on Saturday with the newly arrived pH test strips. I had a urine pH of 5.5. It was really bad. I was glad though, that I have the pH test strips. It made me realize that there was something wrong I was doing.

Today, I confirmed that it was the ascorbic acid I was taking at 7000mg daily to chelate lead from my kidneys. It was effective alright, together with the use of magnesium, as I have been able to lower my blood pressure, and increased my serum albumin. These were signs that the kidneys were doing better.

But the side effect was the acidic load from the daily ascorbic acid intake was affecting my acid-base balance. When I stopped taking ascorbic acid, and increased my bicarbonate intake (using magnesium bicarbonate), the effect did not take long to materialize in the form of better urine pH readings and better blood pressure numbers, as well as higher heart rate readings. The urine pH was a lot better at 6.4, blood pressure back to 170/110, instead of 185/120, and the resting heart rate increased from 63 to 73 during the day.

These is just the result of 1 day of using magnesium bicarbonate supplementation without any vitamin c taken. I'll continue with this protocol for the next 6 days, and see if this trend sticks.

Having a urine pH test strip available is so helpful. I now consider it indispensible when experimenting with food and supplements. In my case, I was trying to lower my blood pressure by chelating lead from my kidneys. I was taking supplements, but I was finding it hard to lower my blood pressure at a certain point. This was a wall I had to overcome. With the urine pH test strip, I was able to detect a problem with my acid-base balance, and this lead me to correct it. Now, I'm hopeful that I have overcome this wall.

A urine pH test strip- great to have!

 

[yerrag]

Had an up and down day with my urine pH: from pH 8 waking up, then it went to 6 around 10am, then 6.2 at 2 pm, then went down to 5.5 at 5 pm, and stayed at 5.5 at 7 pm.

I took magnesium bicarbonate 3 x during the day, and was expecting my pH to hold at around 6.4 throughout the day. I had fresh veggie/fruit juice in the afternoon, and after that my urine pH went down after that, to 5.5.

I now have to find which item in the juice caused my urine pH to drop. The juice consisted of celery, cucumber, green bell pepper, bitter gourd, pineapple, and satsuma orange. I suspect it was the satsuma orange. I've been taking satsuma orange juice for the past 3 months, and it must have been acidic, and if so, it is an acid load that is not only my urine pH to drop, but also making my blood acidic. I suspect the satsumas I've been buying were picked unripe, and this causes it to be acidic (This makes a good case for having your own fruit trees in the backyard, allowing for fruits to ripen and be the sweetest and the least acidic).

Once again, I'm thankful for having the urine pH strip on hand, as without it I wouldn't have found out I was taking something that's disturbing my acid-base balance.

Other observations: An acidic blood seems to lower my heart rate (I've been wondering why my heart rate has been unusually low, and it makes sense now). It also causes my knee pain to come back. It could also be increasing my diastolic. I think I'm able to make the connection now to what @Jennifer says about Carey Reams stating that a kidney issue raises the diastolic (while an adrenals issue raises the systolic). I interpret that now to mean that when the blood/ecf is acidic, it increases the diastolic (when the body is low in sugar, it increases the systolic).

 

[yerrag]

I don't have anything to add on how to interpret it, but I've found it interesting to monitor. I've noticed you have to account for some natural variability that initially confused me when trying to dial in a particular PRAL level:
The diurnal variation in urine acidification differs between normal individuals and uric acid stone formers

This was a nice read, and came in helpful as I monitor my urine pH readings during the day. I got to compare myself with the study, and this would be helpful as I get more readings. Of course, the study samples are not necessarily composed of healthy individuals, but as an average do help. Thanks Dan!

 

[yerrag]

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