Urea Vs Acetazolamide For Edema In 66 Years Old Male

poilochio

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Aug 31, 2015
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My Father-in-law had a heart attack about 6 years ago.

He has for about a week very swollen legs and feet . So bad that water is even leaking out of his legs.

he is taking a diuretic named "torasemide" plus some other medications"ace" inhibitor etc

i have done some research over the last couple of days and "urea" and "acetazolamide" have come up for being "peaty" diuretics

has anybody used these compounds as "diuretics ?
 

Sol

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Jun 16, 2014
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My late father also had a heart attack and a few years later started having major edema, mainly heart edema that caused really bad breathing problems, also legs and feet. I told him to drink water with sugar and salt and a little later the lack of breath would get better, also foot soaks with lots of salt helped him.
Look into RP articles about heart where he mentions that after the heart attack the body can't excrete estrogen and estrogen causes the body to lose salt rapidly. Salt won't resolve the root problem but it may give relief.
I have no experience with urea or acetazolamide for edema, but I think the diuretics my father was using were contributing to the problem, maybe making him lose more salt (just speculating here, don't really know exactly).
 

aguilaroja

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My Father-in-law had a heart attack about 6 years ago.
He has for about a week very swollen legs and feet . So bad that water is even leaking out of his legs.
he is taking a diuretic named "torasemide" plus some other medications"ace" inhibitor etc
..."urea" and "acetazolamide" have come up for being "peaty" diuretics...

One issue with family who have not begun Peat-influenced supports is the degree of cooperation.

See if your father-in-law would go for promptly adding some thiamine [Thiamine hydrochloride is widely available. Avoid brands use thiamine mononitrate-the clinical studies have used the thiamine hydrochloride form.]

This relative is currently using a loop diuretic, torasemide. There is some data that this type of diuretic medicine can deplete thiamine.

Also, as @haidut has noted, thiamine shares some properties with carbonic anhydrase inhibitors, including the acetazalomide(Diamox) that you mentioned. I’ve noticed some mild diuretic effect with thiamine but do not know anyone who has used it for a major edema problems. It may be that supplementing thiamine can both prevent deficiency (due to other medicines) and decrease edema.

As @Sol mentioned, a more full understanding of what metabolic support is more primary than solving the near term edema, which sounds like is being treated as fluid overload. You might for instance, ask for the exact value of this relative’s recent albumin blood test, in relation to the normal range.

This sounds like a recent, major issue in an elderly man. Careful follow-up from his physician/care providers would be good.
--
Thiamine Is A Carbonic Anhydrase Inhibitor As Effective As Acetazolamide
Inhibition of mammalian carbonic anhydrase isoforms I, II and VI with thiamine and thiamine-like molecules. - PubMed - NCBI

Leakiness, aging, and cancer
“Albumin, a small protein from the blood, is often seen in the urine during stress. The effects of that sort of leakage vary with each organ.”

“Estrogen, radiation and other stresses increase those pro-inflammatory acute phase proteins, and decrease protective albumin, which is called a "negative acute phase protein," since it decreases when the other acute phase proteins increase. The liver is the major source of the acute phase proteins, and it is constantly burdened by toxins absorbed from the bowel; disinfection of the bowel is known to accelerate recovery from stress.”

Prevalence of thiamine deficiency in a stable heart failure outpatient cohort on standard loop diuretic therapy. - PubMed - NCBI
“Previous work has demonstrated improvements in myocardial function with high-dose thiamine supplementation regardless of thiamine blood levels, however, suggesting that thiamine may become conditionally essential with HF.”

Does Long-Term Furosemide Therapy Cause Thiamine Deficiency in Patients with Heart Failure? A Focused Review. - PubMed - NCBI
“Limited data suggest that thiamine supplementation is capable of increasing left ventricular ejection fraction and improving functional capacity in patients with heart failure and a reduced left ventricular ejection fraction who were treated with diuretics (predominantly furosemide).”

Thiamine supplementation in symptomatic chronic heart failure: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, cross-over pilot study. - PubMed - NCBI
“Nine patients with diuretic treatment for symptomatic chronic heart failure and a left ventricular ejection fraction (LVEF) <40% were randomly assigned to receive thiamine (300 mg/day) or placebo….”
“This study suggests that thiamine supplementation has beneficial effects on cardiac function in patients with diuretic drugs for symptomatic chronic heart failure.”

https://www.toxinless.com/vitamin-b1
 
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poilochio

poilochio

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Joined
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Messages
130
My late father also had a heart attack and a few years later started having major edema, mainly heart edema that caused really bad breathing problems, also legs and feet. I told him to drink water with sugar and salt and a little later the lack of breath would get better, also foot soaks with lots of salt helped him.
Look into RP articles about heart where he mentions that after the heart attack the body can't excrete estrogen and estrogen causes the body to lose salt rapidly. Salt won't resolve the root problem but it may give relief.
I have no experience with urea or acetazolamide for edema, but I think the diuretics my father was using were contributing to the problem, maybe making him lose more salt (just speculating here, don't really know exactly).

thank you so much Sol.. with all that estrogen might even be a good idea to supplement progesterone
 
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poilochio

poilochio

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Joined
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Messages
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One issue with family who have not begun Peat-influenced supports is the degree of cooperation.

See if your father-in-law would go for promptly adding some thiamine [Thiamine hydrochloride is widely available. Avoid brands use thiamine mononitrate-the clinical studies have used the thiamine hydrochloride form.]

This relative is currently using a loop diuretic, torasemide. There is some data that this type of diuretic medicine can deplete thiamine.

Also, as @haidut has noted, thiamine shares some properties with carbonic anhydrase inhibitors, including the acetazalomide(Diamox) that you mentioned. I’ve noticed some mild diuretic effect with thiamine but do not know anyone who has used it for a major edema problems. It may be that supplementing thiamine can both prevent deficiency (due to other medicines) and decrease edema.

As @Sol mentioned, a more full understanding of what metabolic support is more primary than solving the near term edema, which sounds like is being treated as fluid overload. You might for instance, ask for the exact value of this relative’s recent albumin blood test, in relation to the normal range.

This sounds like a recent, major issue in an elderly man. Careful follow-up from his physician/care providers would be good.
--
Thiamine Is A Carbonic Anhydrase Inhibitor As Effective As Acetazolamide
Inhibition of mammalian carbonic anhydrase isoforms I, II and VI with thiamine and thiamine-like molecules. - PubMed - NCBI

Leakiness, aging, and cancer
“Albumin, a small protein from the blood, is often seen in the urine during stress. The effects of that sort of leakage vary with each organ.”

“Estrogen, radiation and other stresses increase those pro-inflammatory acute phase proteins, and decrease protective albumin, which is called a "negative acute phase protein," since it decreases when the other acute phase proteins increase. The liver is the major source of the acute phase proteins, and it is constantly burdened by toxins absorbed from the bowel; disinfection of the bowel is known to accelerate recovery from stress.”

Prevalence of thiamine deficiency in a stable heart failure outpatient cohort on standard loop diuretic therapy. - PubMed - NCBI
“Previous work has demonstrated improvements in myocardial function with high-dose thiamine supplementation regardless of thiamine blood levels, however, suggesting that thiamine may become conditionally essential with HF.”

Does Long-Term Furosemide Therapy Cause Thiamine Deficiency in Patients with Heart Failure? A Focused Review. - PubMed - NCBI
“Limited data suggest that thiamine supplementation is capable of increasing left ventricular ejection fraction and improving functional capacity in patients with heart failure and a reduced left ventricular ejection fraction who were treated with diuretics (predominantly furosemide).”

Thiamine supplementation in symptomatic chronic heart failure: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, cross-over pilot study. - PubMed - NCBI
“Nine patients with diuretic treatment for symptomatic chronic heart failure and a left ventricular ejection fraction (LVEF) <40% were randomly assigned to receive thiamine (300 mg/day) or placebo….”
“This study suggests that thiamine supplementation has beneficial effects on cardiac function in patients with diuretic drugs for symptomatic chronic heart failure.”

Vitamin B1 (thiamin/thiamine) supplements with the fewest additives - Toxinless
wow thanks for all this info...intetesting stuff..i even have a pure bulk B1 supplement bag at....3x 100mg a day seems to be a good start
 

aguilaroja

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Joined
Jul 24, 2013
Messages
850
...i even have a pure bulk B1 supplement bag at....3x 100mg a day seems to be a good start
Things depend somewhat on what the person has enthusiasm to do. Not every person consistently takes supplements three times per day. Getting started at least once per day may be good enough. Since B1 powder tastes bitter, it might help to mix it with something sweet, or switch to capsules eventually.

For the help with diuresis, if swelling is not relieved, the amount might be gradually increased, with feedback.
 
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poilochio

poilochio

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Messages
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Things depend somewhat on what the person has enthusiasm to do. Not every person consistently takes supplements three times per day. Getting started at least once per day may be good enough. Since B1 powder tastes bitter, it might help to mix it with something sweet, or switch to capsules eventually.

For the help with diuresis, if swelling is not relieved, the amount might be gradually increased, with feedback.
yes i agree ...it is quite bitter
Things depend somewhat on what the person has enthusiasm to do. Not every person consistently takes supplements three times per day. Getting started at least once per day may be good enough. Since B1 powder tastes bitter, it might help to mix it with something sweet, or switch to capsules eventually.

For the help with diuresis, if swelling is not relieved, the amount might be gradually increased, with feedback.
yes i totally agree ..it seems I'm more enthusiastic about his health than himself ..ok i will try giving him 100mg at least of b1 a day ..i have empty caps which i will fill with the smelly b1...thanks again
 

goodandevil

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May 27, 2015
Messages
978
Have an uncle in a similar situation, doctors refuse to work with me. Even acetazolamide once or twice a week will correct faulty blood electrolytes, it's good to have a little in addition to regular diuretics, but i think the urea would be best. Adequate protein consumption is another important factor.
 

Tim Lundeen

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Feb 19, 2017
Messages
396
Isn't Vitamin E specific for swelling and heart issues? Suggest idealabs Vit E or EstroBan.

Standard Process has a urea supplement (A/C Carbamide) that would help short-term, as would Cleavers. You can also give small short-term doses of Poke tincture. I like MediHerb tinctures, have used their Cleavers and it works well.

Dr Cowan recommends ouabain for heart issues, it appears to balance automic and parasympathic activity. I liked his book, Human Heart, Cosmic Heart.
 
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poilochio

poilochio

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Messages
130
Isn't Vitamin E specific for swelling and heart issues? Suggest idealabs Vit E or EstroBan.

Standard Process has a urea supplement (A/C Carbamide) that would help short-term, as would Cleavers. You can also give small short-term doses of Poke tincture. I like MediHerb tinctures, have used their Cleavers and it works well.

Dr Cowan recommends ouabain for heart issues, it appears to balance automic and parasympathic activity. I liked his book, Human Heart, Cosmic Heart.


thanks for the reply i have never heard of the se substances ..i will definitely check them out
 
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poilochio

poilochio

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Joined
Aug 31, 2015
Messages
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Have an uncle in a similar situation, doctors refuse to work with me. Even acetazolamide once or twice a week will correct faulty blood electrolytes, it's good to have a little in addition to regular diuretics, but i think the urea would be best. Adequate protein consumption is another important factor.

he is now taking 250mg of Acetazolamide plus since yesterday 20grams of area a day...i hope it will help .. according to a herb doctor interview ray said ppl take upto 100gramms a day
 

goodandevil

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May 27, 2015
Messages
978
he is now taking 250mg of Acetazolamide plus since yesterday 20grams of area a day...i hope it will help .. according to a herb doctor interview ray said ppl take upto 100gramms a day

Yeah the average dose for hyponatremia is 45g/day, in 3 dos3s. Hope he feels better soon.
 

goodandevil

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May 27, 2015
Messages
978
oh ok thanks i will give him that
I wanted to add that i was able to sneak in soke progesterone to my uncle .. i told them it was skin moisturizer. Anywwys just ome drop every few days seems to be enough to correct his edema because his legs have dried out.
 
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poilochio

poilochio

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Messages
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I wanted to add that i was able to sneak in soke progesterone to my uncle .. i told them it was skin moisturizer. Anywwys just ome drop every few days seems to be enough to correct his edema because his legs have dried out.

thanks for the Tip..yes his legs still need healing...gonna try progesterone for sure...his legs are way better edema wise... azetazolomide 250mg has really helped..he stopped the urea because he hated the taste..
 
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