[Update] Reactive Arthritis / 20 day fast

[FredSonoma]

Reactive Arthritis / 20 day fast

Hi all,

I've had Reactive Arthritis the past 2.5 years (started so bad I was in a wheelchair). Joint pain in remission for around 2 years, but still significant digestive issues (mainly, I can't eat any starch or FODMAPs without joint / other problems).

I also just came out of a 20 day fast (the last 5 days I drank bone broth).

Within the past 3 days I started reading RP's stuff... fascinating, and something about it just feels right.

Anyone have experience with any kind of arthritis / autoimmune issue and have any specific recommendations? I've been eating dairy for the first time in 2 years and omg it tastes so good.

Here's what I'm generally doing:
- Dairy (milk, kefir, yogurt, cheese, butter)
- Fruits (papaya, oranges, mangoes, some blueberries)
- Honey
- Gelatin (from grass-fed beef knuckle bones)
- Small amounts of fish
- Raw carrot / bamboo shoot salad
- Minimize PUFA (no fatty fish, chicken, vegetable oils - fat sources are coco oil, butter, and beef fat)
- Some spinach / small amounts of other well-cooked veggies

I always eat some sugar with any protein, but sometimes eat a good amount of sugar alone. I'm eating a good amount of fat, maybe even like 50% of my calories.

Any recommendations of tests I should get?

Thanks,
James

 

[Zachs]

Re: Reactive Arthritis / 20 day fast

Which joints are most effected? Could it possibly be anklosing spondylitis?

I think you are on the right track. Cutting out all starch, most vegetables except a few roots, shoots and leafy greens, all oils besides CO and most meats would be best. I would add in a bit of ruminent meat, mainly liver and also some shellfish like crab, scallops and oysters. Keep fruit intake low unless it's very ripe, citrus can be a big trigger food too. Pulp free juice might be best along with simple sugars. Eggs could be a good addition too as long as it's not a trigger, oh and make sure to get dairy without added vitamins because they are added with emulsifiers that can cause inflammation. Raw goat milk would be best.

Lastly I would reccomend you supplement with glycine, lysine or bcaas, zinc, magnesium, maybe a bit of thyroid. Look into red light therapy.

 

[FredSonoma]

Re: Reactive Arthritis / 20 day fast

Zachs, thanks a lot for the reply.

I don't have any joint issues anymore (went away after 6 months of high fat auto-immune paleo... i know, i know...) but when they were, it was both feet, right ankle, left knee, some spots on upper back. I don't think it's AS.

I'm currently avoiding ruminant meat / liver / and shellfish because I'm worried about iron - I had a revelation that I've been so addicted to iron over the past 2 years (craving and consuming SHITLOADS of it) - I'm thinking maybe the pathogenic bacteria living in me and making me sick needs iron to survive and that's why I crave it so badly.

Why keep fruit intake low?

 

[Mittir]

Re: Reactive Arthritis / 20 day fast

Having improvement from avoiding grains ,beans , PUFA and nightshades in autoimmune paleo
is a sign that gut irritation, serotonin and endotoxin were causing the problem.
RP has mentioned that improved thyroid function can eliminate joint pain.
You can try small amount of thyroid or chicken neck/ fish head soup for natural
thyroid hormones. I used to have mild joint pain and it went away after i stopped
eating gluten. I get mild joint or back pain if i skip my thyroid chicken neck soup for few days.

 

[FredSonoma]

Re: Reactive Arthritis / 20 day fast

Mittir, awesome thanks so much I've never ever heard of that. Will look into it now.

How do you make the soup? Do you have to slow cook it or just cook it long enough to eat it? How do I know if I'm actually eating the thyroid?

 

[Mittir]

Re: Reactive Arthritis / 20 day fast

Mittir, awesome thanks so much I've never ever heard of that. Will look into it now.

How do you make the soup? Do you have to slow cook it or just cook it long enough to eat it? How do I know if I'm actually eating the thyroid?

Just to clarify, i meant that one of the symptom of hypothyroidism is joint pain.
I usually make soup of 40-50 neck, make sure when you buy the necks that those
are cut at the base so that thyroid gland is still there. Thyroid gland of chicken is
just above the base of neck. I boil it for 1-2 hours until the necks are soft and i break
those bones, which look lot like a puree and boil some 10-15 min and strain the
broth. Then i put it in ice trays and drink one or twice a day total of 4-5 necks.
If there is thyroid in the soup you will notice instant warmth.

 

[FredSonoma]

Re: Reactive Arthritis / 20 day fast

Mittir, awesome thanks so much I've never ever heard of that. Will look into it now.

How do you make the soup? Do you have to slow cook it or just cook it long enough to eat it? How do I know if I'm actually eating the thyroid?

Just to clarify, i meant that one of the symptom of hypothyroidism is joint pain.
I usually make soup of 40-50 neck, make sure when you buy the necks that those
are cut at the base so that thyroid gland is still there. Thyroid gland of chicken is
just above the base of neck. I boil it for 1-2 hours until the necks are soft and i break
those bones, which look lot like a puree and boil some 10-15 min and strain the
broth. Then i put it in ice trays and drink one or twice a day total of 4-5 necks.
If there is thyroid in the soup you will notice instant warmth.

Okay thanks! Notice any difference with doing it with fish heads?

 

[Mittir]

Re: Reactive Arthritis / 20 day fast

Okay thanks! Notice any difference with doing it with fish heads?

I tried fish heads few times. It is not as powerful as neck. I made fish head stew with some
vegetables and probably did not eat as much as i should have. It tastes better.
I definitely feel warm after eating the fish head stew.
Thyroid hormone in fish is scattered around the body, mostly in the below neck area
and some in kidney, liver etc. You can try both and see which one works better.
Cooked for half an hour. I opted for chicken soup mainly for cost. For me chicken neck
is cheaper than fish heads.

 

[johns74]

Re: Reactive Arthritis / 20 day fast

Mittir, since you're knowledgeable about iron, do you know your ferritin?

 

[johns74]

Re: Reactive Arthritis / 20 day fast

I tried fish heads few times. It is not as powerful as neck.

Doesn't the head have bad fats?

 

[Mittir]

Re: Reactive Arthritis / 20 day fast

I tried fish heads few times. It is not as powerful as neck.

Doesn't the head have bad fats?

That is one of the reason i did not choose fish head for regular diet.
I skim off the fat in chicken soup and same can be done with fish soup.
Fish seems to have a lot more gelatin. I wonder if some of the fat get stuck
in the gelatin and does not rise up on top.

I used to measure my whole iron panel regularly, have not done lately.
My saturation index varies between 24 to 32 percent and there is rise and
fall in ferritin number corresponding to saturation level
My understanding is that body store more iron in ferritin form when there is
inflammation or other problems. When ferritin is low, saturation index is higher
and vice versa, total iron remaining same. Ferritin is the most stable form of stored iron.

 

[FredSonoma]

Re: Reactive Arthritis / 20 day fast

I tried fish heads few times. It is not as powerful as neck.

Doesn't the head have bad fats?

That is one of the reason i did not choose fish head for regular diet.
I skim off the fat in chicken soup and same can be done with fish soup.
Fish seems to have a lot more gelatin. I wonder if some of the fat get stuck
in the gelatin and does not rise up on top.

I used to measure my whole iron panel regularly, have not done lately.
My saturation index varies between 24 to 32 percent and there is rise and
fall in ferritin number corresponding to saturation level
My understanding is that body store more iron in ferritin form when there is
inflammation or other problems. When ferritin is low, saturation index is higher
and vice versa, total iron remaining same. Ferritin is the most stable form of stored iron.

Hey Mittir,

Just grabbed 2 fish heads - couldn't find any chicken necks. My native Taiwanese mom was telling me how growing up, they would cook the fish head with mushrooms and lots and lots of ginger. She kept emphasizing that they would put TONS of ginger into the soup. Is there any reason to think that doing this would take away from the good effects of the thyroid in the head?

 

[Mittir]

Re: Reactive Arthritis / 20 day fast

Hey Mittir,

Just grabbed 2 fish heads - couldn't find any chicken necks. My native Taiwanese mom was telling me how growing up, they would cook the fish head with mushrooms and lots and lots of ginger. She kept emphasizing that they would put TONS of ginger into the soup. Is there any reason to think that doing this would take away from the good effects of the thyroid in the head?

Ginger is probably used to minimize the fish smell. Ginger is a powerful anti-inflammatory
and has proteolytic enzyme in it, which breaks down protein. It should not alter thyroid hormones.
I think for first experiment use less ginger to measure how much warmth you get just from
fish head stock. Salt also add extra warmth.

I do not add ginger to my chicken neck soup, i have noticed the soup becomes bit allergenic if
i store it for longer time. I am guessing even in storage, ginger is breaking down protein,
certain protein breakdown increases allergenicity. Certain fish are known to have increase breakdown
of histamine even in storage, it would be a good idea to avoid those fish and best to eat the soup
on the same day.

 

[FredSonoma]

Re: Reactive Arthritis / 20 day fast

Hey Mittir,

Just grabbed 2 fish heads - couldn't find any chicken necks. My native Taiwanese mom was telling me how growing up, they would cook the fish head with mushrooms and lots and lots of ginger. She kept emphasizing that they would put TONS of ginger into the soup. Is there any reason to think that doing this would take away from the good effects of the thyroid in the head?

Ginger is probably used to minimize the fish smell. Ginger is a powerful anti-inflammatory
and has proteolytic enzyme in it, which breaks down protein. It should not alter thyroid hormones.
I think for first experiment use less ginger to measure how much warmth you get just from
fish head stock. Salt also add extra warmth.

I do not add ginger to my chicken neck soup, i have noticed the soup becomes bit allergenic if
i store it for longer time. I am guessing even in storage, ginger is breaking down protein,
certain protein breakdown increases allergenicity. Certain fish are known to have increase breakdown
of histamine even in storage, it would be a good idea to avoid those fish and best to eat the soup
on the same day.

Alright got it, thanks a lot again Mittir!

 

[FredSonoma]

On my 3rd day of Peating! Love so many things about it - yesterday I felt amazing.

HOWEVER, last night I went to bed at 10 PM, did not sleep a wink until 5 AM. Lied there, full of energy, felt like I could have jumped up and did push-ups. I finally slept from 5 AM - 8 AM.

Last night I did eat a lot of cocao powder - like 3 tsp I think.
ALSO, I've been drinking raw colostrum, and I had a sip right before I went to bed.

Anyone have an idea why I was like that? Have I possibly gone hyperthyroid?

 

[SQu]

I felt great early on - couple of months - then unaccountably worse. I think unfortunately a big dietary change can cause one to run on stress hormones and that might explain the great energy but poor sleep. even though a goal is to lower stress hormones that's how it went to begin with for me. Now if I lie awake like that I know it's adrenalin and I have sugared salted milk, maybe some theanine. Maybe a bigger snack if that doesn't work. you could search for more tips - look up adrenalin and sleep.

 

[FredSonoma]

I felt great early on - couple of months - then unaccountably worse. I think unfortunately a big dietary change can cause one to run on stress hormones and that might explain the great energy but poor sleep. even though a goal is to lower stress hormones that's how it went to begin with for me. Now if I lie awake like that I know it's adrenalin and I have sugared salted milk, maybe some theanine. Maybe a bigger snack if that doesn't work. you could search for more tips - look up adrenalin and sleep.

Alright thanks!

 

[FredSonoma]

Re: Reactive Arthritis / 20 day fast

On Day 5 of Peating now - I noticed I have some dry skin on my arms, which I haven't had in recent memory. Not painful or anything, is this a sign of anything?