Unpopular Opinion: I Think Some Of Ray's Ideas Are Just Not Helpful And Actually Make Matters Worse

[postman]

Peat's ideas aren't accurately represented in many cases, therefore you have people spreading misinformation (assuming unintentionally). I think orthorexics will blame anyone but themselves. When they fail at a particular protocol, that Ray himself didn't even make, then blame Ray for it's failure, they're ust trying to find excuses to point the finger at anyone but themselves. The "Ray Peat diet" was made by random people compiling excerpts from KMUD interview (often taken out of context) to make a diet. Peatarian is dangerous, and Peat himself wouldn't recommend it.

This is such typical cultish victim blaming. Youre whole presupposition is that everyone who fails when following his advice is doing something wrong. This is how every single diet cult on the internet thinks by the way. Orthorexia is such a big meme in the peatosphere, people are like "i don't want to be orthorexic so I better stuff down this whole pint of ice cream!"

Also the people who say that Ray has never recommended specific foods are lying. He always recommends dairy and fruits when people ask him what a healthy diet looks like, and he encourages people to keep trying with the dairy even if it doesn't work, saying you can induce the lactase enzyme and things like that. Which maybe you can but for some people dairy clearly doesn't work and thus his advice did not work in those cases.

 

[Constatine]

That's my story, what I got and what to learn.
Postmenopausal, gained 60 pounds since meno. ,loaded w/PUFA, poor health, big bunch of problems, but wasn't too bad, started even to adapt, even losing some weight, start to sleep. TSH was 2.4 in 2006.
Taking care of myself w/vits., minerals, row sunflower(yummy!)oil, fish oil(!), salads, pounds of fruits and berry,raws, whole grains, flax seed, ton of nuts and seeds, roast under UV for vD, lots of water, only black coffee etc.
Oh, and ''labor therapy''! - When filling bad continue to work until getting better - the "second wind"! Adrenaline, but didn't know, was proud to find the solution!

Then found Peat! Reading a Lot! Oh my God!
But-Hurrah! I can fix, getting better easy!
Stop oils, take Coconut oil, no extra water, OJ, milk, low starches, some meat, some sea food, eggs, mushrooms, some butter, cheese, some Coke, more coffee w/milk, fruits, avoid unripe, some vegges fully cooked, bone broth, morning & evening sun, some red light, still some suppl. Mg, taurine, B vits., CoQ10, vE etc.
Nothing bad right?
But gaining more weight, (nobody can recognize me now!) apron, skirting like, saggy belly, eczema worse, failing hair, severe insomnia, arthritis worse, skin worse and brown spots a-all over with thick patches, some migraines return, constipated, cholesterol up to 315, temp. down, legs and nose always soo cold, anxiety return, liver enzymes up, WBC down, TSH up to 4.5. The worst is heart, from occasional arrhythmia & PVC, start getting it more and more often, every month, then few times, then every week, few times a week.
Why?! What am I doing wrong!?
The only better was not waking up shaking and clattering teeth in panic - sipping salted OJ was very helpful.
And 10 years in row flashing almost gone and changed for profusely sweating at very little effort, especially face - dripping sweat.
Ok, diet is not enough, probably time to introduce hormones.
Very slow start Ndt. Slow progesterone was big mistake! Add some aspirin, niacinaimide, Some Bs, K2, Mg glicinate, Ca, some
theanine, bag breathing, some carrot salad, liver, more thoroughly cooked mushrooms, gelatine, some pregnenolone, vit D
Worse! Only good things better temp. and pulse from 60 to 68, Tsh down to 3-2.6
Now feel extremely bad! My heart stops every day, every few seconds, sometimes for hours or for days. Am I still alive? Scary..
Non stop suffering.
Dropping almost everything to see.
But!
The only excuse for me - English is my second language. Some little things can get wrong. Like ''can'' and "might".
But the behavior,?! Stupidity, or character, or busy life, lack of understanding , lot of stress, everything together?
Just now after three years here I start to notice little things like ''IF''!
Almost every Ray's explanations came with ''if''.
Like Progesteroe works IF thyroid is good, thyroid works if liver is good etc, etc, etc.
And I...
Did you ever see the aged lady who stubbornly pull on some dress just b/c it looks nice on young girl?
Some finely notice mistake, some don't.
I was ''trying on'' everything, too busy to think, I'm not a scientists, feeling to bad to wait, to see the ''ifs''. Take this, Ray said so.
And he didn't!
He just gives information, food for thought, but we have a habit (and hope) to get the ''magic pill''.
Now, rereading, re listening, rethinking I see much more.
But damage was done.
I don't blame Ray.
Some things many times making me cry and losing hope, like brown spots not going off from vE & etanol,
after almost four years avoiding Pufas didn't see improvement, Progesterone or carrot salad didn't help with heart rhythm disturbing etc.
But he didn't see me personally, didn't say- it's for YOU. He didn't promise, his main words are - ''may'', ''can be'', ''probably'', ''should'', ''I think'', ''I knew people'', ''worked for me'' or rats etc.
So, still don't know what to do, but learn some lessons.Sooory so long .

Adopting a cultural diet might be helpful as they are typically safer than any of the "movement diets". With such diets we can see it's effects via the millions of people of said culture over many generations. No diet popularized on the internet can compare to such evidence.

 

[Goobz]

Lemme guess..... it was one of the 'Zole drugs? They do more than inhibit estrogen, they inhibit progesterone too. And maybe other steroids. Not good in any way.



Sure, if the AI is Letrozole. It crushes Progesterone. And reducing Progesterone ain't good. There is no proof whatsoever that the negative effects of Letrozole are in any way from lowering estrogen.

It was indeed letrozole. I was unaware of it affecting progesterone (though considering the amount of pathways those drugs affect, I’m not really surprised). Thanks for the response! I’ll look into it further.

I won’t post any more about the estradiol topic until I start a new thread...

 

[Aaron]

Unfortunately, I agree with the OP. Some of the ideas perpetuated on this forum are akin to the flat Earth hypothesis, and this forum disturbs me in much the same way sometimes. I can thank this forum for disorienting me quite a bit, and there are positives and negatives to that effect.

 

[Ritchie]

I've been studying and experimenting with Peat's ideas for 5 plus years, there are lots of good ideas, but lots of bad ones as well. I think one of the biggest problems with Peat's perspective and others that follow him is the obsession with "mechanistic" data. Ie. studies and hypothesis that try to explain isolated, individual mechanistic interactions within the human organism, and in many of the cases that Peat and others in this sphere cite, animal/rat organism. The problem with focusing on mechanistic data is that the organism is a complex system and the outcomes are often very different than mechanistic data would suggest. Hence the evidence hierarchy adhered to in Science. Well thought out rationale as to what evidence counts as strong, down to weak. Mechanistic data and "evidence", especially when drawn from animal studies or even worse in vitro studies, are at the very bottom of this evidence hierarchy, and for good reason. One perfect example is Peat's stance against starch. This is all grounded in a couple of experiments done decades ago on mice that were fed uncooked starch. I mean, in the scientific research community this is laughable. And there are many other examples of this. For instance, Peat's focus on carrot salads is all grounded in an isolated rat study. Why is it just ok to eat carrots raw and not other vegetables? Well this rat study. From an outside perspective it is clear that this is a very autistic way to interpret animal research and make conclusions in the human context, particularly in relation to nutrition and diet.
Without looking at large scale systematic reviews and meta analyses, or randomised controlled double blind studies it is a mistake to make conclusions from in vitro, animal or mechanistic hypotheses. It must first be seen to play out in actuality. I would say that this is why so many people experimenting with Peat's ideas, which seem rational on paper, fail. Because when put to the test, many of these ideas (hypothesis from in vitro, animal studies and mechanistic hypotheses) simply don't hold true, due to the fact that the human system is extremely complex and individual mechanistic hypotheses and explanations fail to take into account all the interactions and synergisms neccesary to draw conclusions.

I'll attach the evidence hierarchy pyramid to this post.
This issue is just one of many with Peat and his particular way of thinking and following interpretation from people that read him, but I'll leave it at that for now...

 

[schultz]

Also, I do have methylation issues MTHFR

Woah, no reason to use profanity. You must be really passionate about methylation.

(sorry lame joke)

Seems to me , that the best way to approach his ideas and research, is to read each and every one of his articles that you can get your hands on.

+1

Yes people, read the freaking articles! Or at least listen to all of the podcasts (which will take over 100 hours lol)

Your foundation of "Ray knowledge" should not be built with the forum, it should be built first and foremost with the newsletters, then the podcasts, then the forum.

Youre whole presupposition is that everyone who fails when following his advice is doing something wrong.

I'd bet money that more than 50% of the people who "fail" are doing something wrong. They are probably not aware of it though. I see a lot of people say they took thyroid and it didn't do anything ergo thyroid is useless. Ray has said that the only product he trusts is cynomel and cynoplus. If you were not using these, then you were not following his advice. Moreover, you need to properly support such supplements nutritionally in order for them to work well. Another example is progesterone. I've noticed some people are taking cream based progesterone products which are more than likely useless. A person says they did low PUFA for years but it turns out they were consuming like 12g PUFA per day, or a person gains weight and blames Ray but they were not tracking their calories.

People like being a victim because it means they don't have to take responsibility.

I was unaware of it affecting progesterone

I'm not sure I've seen evidence of this in a study, though I imagine the AI's effect more than just aromatase in the body. I don't like when researchers use AI's to show the effect of "low estrogen", as if an AI is synonymous with low estrogen. We are probably not aware of half the stuff these drugs do. Are they affecting the liver negatively? Stuff like this needs to be considered. Do they lower tissue estrogen? I don't know. They should be doing tissue biopsies and not just checking blood levels.

 

[TeaRex14]

This is such typical cultish victim blaming. Youre whole presupposition is that everyone who fails when following his advice is doing something wrong. This is how every single diet cult on the internet thinks by the way. Orthorexia is such a big meme in the peatosphere, people are like "i don't want to be orthorexic so I better stuff down this whole pint of ice cream!"

Also the people who say that Ray has never recommended specific foods are lying. He always recommends dairy and fruits when people ask him what a healthy diet looks like, and he encourages people to keep trying with the dairy even if it doesn't work, saying you can induce the lactase enzyme and things like that. Which maybe you can but for some people dairy clearly doesn't work and thus his advice did not work in those cases.

That's factually wrong, I've already linked proof Ray doesn't recommend a detailed diet to another thread on this site. So I'm not even going to start this crap again. You don't like Peat, you shouldn't even be on this forum because you're just trolling. Dairy and fruits are healthy, Ive never had a single problem eating those foods. When someone has an intolerance to a food that doesn't make it unhealthy for everyone else. The problem we have here is idiocy, and a lack of commonsense. Ray's advice is contextual, and when he says something is healthy that doesn't mean 100% of the world's population is going to tolerate that food. But quite frankly I'm at peace knowing the facts, if you think Ray recommends a specific diet clearly you don't know enough about Ray. I eat virtually every food group, and I don't take apart of this Peatarian crap of skim milk, orange juice, and white rice. Or whatever they're eating. I can apply his advice without restricting food groups, if you can't, then that's on you and not him.

 

[Blossom]

That's my story, what I got and what to learn.
Postmenopausal, gained 60 pounds since meno. ,loaded w/PUFA, poor health, big bunch of problems, but wasn't too bad, started even to adapt, even losing some weight, start to sleep. TSH was 2.4 in 2006.
Taking care of myself w/vits., minerals, row sunflower(yummy!)oil, fish oil(!), salads, pounds of fruits and berry,raws, whole grains, flax seed, ton of nuts and seeds, roast under UV for vD, lots of water, only black coffee etc.
Oh, and ''labor therapy''! - When filling bad continue to work until getting better - the "second wind"! Adrenaline, but didn't know, was proud to find the solution!

Then found Peat! Reading a Lot! Oh my God!
But-Hurrah! I can fix, getting better easy!
Stop oils, take Coconut oil, no extra water, OJ, milk, low starches, some meat, some sea food, eggs, mushrooms, some butter, cheese, some Coke, more coffee w/milk, fruits, avoid unripe, some vegges fully cooked, bone broth, morning & evening sun, some red light, still some suppl. Mg, taurine, B vits., CoQ10, vE etc.
Nothing bad right?
But gaining more weight, (nobody can recognize me now!) apron, skirting like, saggy belly, eczema worse, failing hair, severe insomnia, arthritis worse, skin worse and brown spots a-all over with thick patches, some migraines return, constipated, cholesterol up to 315, temp. down, legs and nose always soo cold, anxiety return, liver enzymes up, WBC down, TSH up to 4.5. The worst is heart, from occasional arrhythmia & PVC, start getting it more and more often, every month, then few times, then every week, few times a week.
Why?! What am I doing wrong!?
The only better was not waking up shaking and clattering teeth in panic - sipping salted OJ was very helpful.
And 10 years in row flashing almost gone and changed for profusely sweating at very little effort, especially face - dripping sweat.
Ok, diet is not enough, probably time to introduce hormones.
Very slow start Ndt. Slow progesterone was big mistake! Add some aspirin, niacinaimide, Some Bs, K2, Mg glicinate, Ca, some
theanine, bag breathing, some carrot salad, liver, more thoroughly cooked mushrooms, gelatine, some pregnenolone, vit D
Worse! Only good things better temp. and pulse from 60 to 68, Tsh down to 3-2.6
Now feel extremely bad! My heart stops every day, every few seconds, sometimes for hours or for days. Am I still alive? Scary..
Non stop suffering.
Dropping almost everything to see.
But!
The only excuse for me - English is my second language. Some little things can get wrong. Like ''can'' and "might".
But the behavior,?! Stupidity, or character, or busy life, lack of understanding , lot of stress, everything together?
Just now after three years here I start to notice little things like ''IF''!
Almost every Ray's explanations came with ''if''.
Like Progesteroe works IF thyroid is good, thyroid works if liver is good etc, etc, etc.
And I...
Did you ever see the aged lady who stubbornly pull on some dress just b/c it looks nice on young girl?
Some finely notice mistake, some don't.
I was ''trying on'' everything, too busy to think, I'm not a scientists, feeling to bad to wait, to see the ''ifs''. Take this, Ray said so.
And he didn't!
He just gives information, food for thought, but we have a habit (and hope) to get the ''magic pill''.
Now, rereading, re listening, rethinking I see much more.
But damage was done.
I don't blame Ray.
Some things many times making me cry and losing hope, like brown spots not going off from vE & etanol,
after almost four years avoiding Pufas didn't see improvement, Progesterone or carrot salad didn't help with heart rhythm disturbing etc.
But he didn't see me personally, didn't say- it's for YOU. He didn't promise, his main words are - ''may'', ''can be'', ''probably'', ''should'', ''I think'', ''I knew people'', ''worked for me'' or rats etc.
So, still don't know what to do, but learn some lessons.Sooory so long .

I appreciate you sharing your story. I made a lot of mistakes too but there’s value in trying even if in hindsight we misjudged. Seven years later from my lowest point I can say things have finally significantly improved. No one made me do anything though so placing blame for my decisions on anyone but myself would be wrong. I can see where a lot of things I did were probably not the best for me at the time but I was going on what seemed to make the most sense with the information I had available. I think that’s the best we can do in this confusing world we live in. If I could go back and do only one thing differently it would be to trust my own instincts more.

 

[JohnP]

Eating a liquid diet without things like starches seems like the craziest thing ever.

It's ironic because Ray's all pro-thyroid and I'm almost positive some of the things he either practices or alludes to as pro-thyroid are actually harmful.

I'm sure there are others who agree on this point with respect to other ideas, but those are the two that don't work for me and personally, I think are just insane to suggest to someone who is having thyroid issues.

If you are cold (experiencing low-thyroid issues), why in the hell would you suggest a virtually liquid diet without substantial solid food to balance it?

And no starches? Starches are like the only thing that make the human engine 'go' with ease. They are the most reliable food source for humans (grains, potatoes, corn, etc.). To say: Don't eat these but instead drink a bunch of this (explicitly or implicitly), to me seems crazy and the exact opposite of the thing which you would want to say to a person with low-thyroid.

Don't get me wrong--I like Dr. Peat and some of his ideas are great such as his work on PUFA and pro-thyroid POV has probably helped hundreds if not thousands including myself, but he certainly misses the mark in a few areas.

I totally suggest well-cooked potatoes for healthy and unhealthy people.

Disagree or agree if you like, but that's just my opinion. I like some of his work and I'm grateful for it, but some of it is just the exact opposite of what I personally would suggest to a person suffering from low-thyroid issues. Call me crazy, but some things I tried and they were not helpful and were actually the opposite and made matters worse. Glad I stopped before I went too far.

Feel free to share your thoughts and experiences. I know there are others who tried some of Peat's ideas and have had either no results or poor results.

It is not about the starches being absolutely bad to eat.

The problem is if they are not properly digested because then they feed bacteria, fungi and even plugs the capillaries - Psoriasis, Ray Peat, Liver | PsoriasisDietPlan.com

Even though big molecules of starches will be digested by pancreatic enzymes (taken as supplement if you think your own pancreas can not do its job) they still can not be properly absorbed into the blood.

Pancreatic enzymes break down starches to disaccharides like sucrose, maltose and lactose. These disaccharides should be digested by disaccharidases (the family of enzymes) which are produced by cells lining the small intestine.

If small intestine is inflamed (SIBO or some other damage) then it may not produce enough disaccharidases -> more food for bacteria and fungi -> lactic acid production -> more damage to small intestine.

 

[aquaman]

The summary of Ray’s work would to “eat to increase your metabolic rate”. Which is a personal thing.

I don’t think he advises against starches in the whole.

Milk and juice is not the answer for increased metabolic rate for the vast majority of people from the evidence of this forum.

 

[nad]

Well written. Not sure if my other post posted but it is close to my experience when I did not know the steps to take - and did not know my levels etc. It really takes a while and a lot of self experimentation and reading exactly what he writes. I was guilty of doing it all wrong because I rushed.

Thanks, I think big part is education. And even better - self education b/c docs. trained.. you know!
Before I started to understand physiology etc. everything was hard to interpret and analyse.
Then details start to pay roles, otherwise you just & , looking for ''prescription''. And experimentation became useless and even worse - dangerous. (me)
Probably all here know - three, five, ten times you reed or listen Peat you find new staff.
May I btw, ask what the highest dose of progesterone you take at once and for day?

 

[MarcelZD]

That's factually wrong, I've already linked proof Ray doesn't recommend a detailed diet to another thread on this site. So I'm not even going to start this crap again. You don't like Peat, you shouldn't even be on this forum because you're just trolling. Dairy and fruits are healthy, Ive never had a single problem eating those foods. When someone has an intolerance to a food that doesn't make it unhealthy for everyone else. The problem we have here is idiocy, and a lack of commonsense. Ray's advice is contextual, and when he says something is healthy that doesn't mean 100% of the world's population is going to tolerate that food. But quite frankly I'm at peace knowing the facts, if you think Ray recommends a specific diet clearly you don't know enough about Ray. I eat virtually every food group, and I don't take apart of this Peatarian crap of skim milk, orange juice, and white rice. Or whatever they're eating. I can apply his advice without restricting food groups, if you can't, then that's on you and not him.

The two quarts of milk and two quarts of orange juice as a dietary base was a direct recommendation by the man himself. Now he didn' t explicitly say that this will improve everyone's health, but I don't think other diet gurus make bold claims like that either.

The point is that Peatarian dietary protocols will look broadly similar irrespective of context. Dairy and connective tissue as protein sources, sugar as carbohydrate - there really isn't much room. Most other foods are necessarily potentially problematic within Peat's framework.

 

[BingDing]

It is not about the starches being absolutely bad to eat.

The problem is if they are not properly digested because then they feed bacteria, fungi and even plugs the capillaries - Psoriasis, Ray Peat, Liver | PsoriasisDietPlan.com

Even though big molecules of starches will be digested by pancreatic enzymes (taken as supplement if you think your own pancreas can not do its job) they still can not be properly absorbed into the blood.

Pancreatic enzymes break down starches to disaccharides like sucrose, maltose and lactose. These disaccharides should be digested by disaccharidases (the family of enzymes) which are produced by cells lining the small intestine.

If small intestine is inflamed (SIBO or some other damage) then it may not produce enough disaccharidases -> more food for bacteria and fungi -> lactic acid production -> more damage to small intestine.

Excellent summary @JohnP, thanks!

There was a forum member a couple years ago with essentially zero estrogen, based on blood work. He said it was horrible. So some estrogen is clearly OK.

My take on it is that estrogen promotes water retention which slows down metabolism. I use a puffy face in the morning as a marker and don't worry about it much more than that. The fat soluble vitamins all oppose estrogen, I use Idealabs' Estroban when it becomes a concern. Idealabs sells an aromatase inhibitor but I don't like the way it makes me feel.

There are thousands of unanswered questions, almost as many dead ends, and a thousand times more of worthless or misleading scientific studies. RP's broad focus on good metabolism is so fundamentally sane and he has come up with good answers so many times that I give him the benefit of any doubt.

The fact that he can understand scientific studies and put them in context while I can't is a part of the equation.

 

[BingDing]

The two quarts of milk and two quarts of orange juice as a dietary base was a direct recommendation by the man himself. Now he didn' t explicitly say that this will improve everyone's health, but I don't think other diet gurus make bold claims like that either.

IIRC, what he actually said was that the he used two quarts of milk and two quarts of orange juice at one point in his life. Turning that into a purported recommendation for everyone at all times is a great example of the problems understanding him.

Much of his commentary is anecdotal and explicitly relates to him, and some relates to a problem/solution with one or two other people. Little of it is dated, which is a big problem; in the early 1970's he liked PUFA.

 

[TeaRex14]

The two quarts of milk and two quarts of orange juice as a dietary base was a direct recommendation by the man himself. Now he didn' t explicitly say that this will improve everyone's health, but I don't think other diet gurus make bold claims like that either.

The point is that Peatarian dietary protocols will look broadly similar irrespective of context. Dairy and connective tissue as protein sources, sugar as carbohydrate - there really isn't much room. Most other foods are necessarily potentially problematic within Peat's framework.

You got proof, of course you don't. This is pointless, I've already proved this on the poison A thread. Either people need to provide evidence (which they can't) Peat recommends a specific diet or they need to stop spreading misinformation. When people become hypo many foods can cause them problems, that doesn't make the food bad and that doesn't mean Peat is personally against that food. Applying Peat's principles to my diet is one of the least restrictive things I've ever done.

 

[MarcelZD]

IIRC, what he actually said was that the he used two quarts of milk and two quarts of orange juice at one point in his life. Turning that into a purported recommendation for everyone at all times is a great example of the problems understanding him.

Much of his commentary is anecdotal and explicitly relates to him, and some relates to a problem/solution with one or two other people. Little of it is dated, which is a big problem; in the early 1970's he liked PUFA.

RP: Yah. That's why, as a quick therapy diet, I recommend a person having at least two quarts of milk and two quarts of orange juice every day to get the thyroid going and suppress inflammation and help the liver regulate things.

Cholesterol is an Important
Molecule KMUD, 2008-12-03

I think that recommendation is thw source of the original Peat diet as it was originally conceived of by his followers. Of course that's not all, but what significant changes can one make while still within the Peatarian framework? Add gelatin, liver and tropical fruit I suppose. After that one quickly runs out of options, seeing how Peat considers starch, legumes, PUFA-laden stuff etc. no good.

 

[MarcelZD]

You got proof, of course you don't. This is pointless, I've already proved this on the poison A thread. Either people need to provide evidence (which they can't) Peat recommends a specific diet or they need to stop spreading misinformation. When people become hypo many foods can cause them problems, that doesn't make the food bad and that doesn't mean Peat is personally against that food. Applying Peat's principles to my diet is one of the least restrictive things I've ever done.

The bulk of most diets around the world usually comes from rice, tubers, wheat and legumes. In that sense a Peatarian diet is extremely restricting. If you like it that's cool.

 

[Peater Piper]

IIRC, what he actually said was that the he used two quarts of milk and two quarts of orange juice at one point in his life. Turning that into a purported recommendation for everyone at all times is a great example of the problems understanding him.

I don't think that's the case. Reading through the entire interview, it sounds very much like he's saying adding two quarts of milk and OJ is a good idea for many people with a variety of conditions.

"That's why, as a quick therapy diet, I recommend a person having at least two quarts of milk and two quarts of orange juice every day to get the thyroid going and suppress inflammation and help the liver regulate things."

Improve thyroid, suppress inflammation, boost liver function? Isn't that what most of us are after?

Cholesterol Is An Important Molecule, KMUD, 2008

 

[member 2106]

He recommends meat, seafood, fruit, cheese, carrots, etc, so it's not all that liquid-heavy. But if you've a big appetite, it can seem impossible to thrive without the calories from starch. I certainly haven't figured that out.

I think he only really discourages starches if you have a sensitive intestine. Although he doesn't eat starch himself, presumably because he's worried it will eventually damage his gut.

Danny Roddy also doesn't eat starch, and he seems to be okay. Who knows though. I think if you've a good metabolism, warm hands and feet, good digestion, etc, then you're doing it right, whatever it is.

 

[member 2106]

This quote might be helpful, in which Peat talks about his own diet: Ray Peat - "The details vary slightly according to what's available. Daily, milk, fruit (mainly orange juice), eggs, butter, cheese, and coffee. As available, liver, shrimp, squid, oysters, cod, sole, ox-tail soup, chicharrones (puffed pork rind), sapotas, pawpaws, cherimoyas, guanabanas, guavas, carrots, bamboo shoots, small turnips, corundas."