Uncut Interview With "Vaxxed" Producer Del Bigtree

Discussion in 'Vaccines' started by charlie, Apr 3, 2016.

  1. Salty

    Salty Member

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    A very important point. The tendency is to treat "vaccines" as one topic as though they are all fundamentally the same (they are not!), but as you say, you really have to look at each particular vaccine and each within a particular context. They each have potentially different effects, alone, in combination with others etc. Its a complex topic.

    Some documented factors that affect response which can vary by vaccine: age at which it is given, the gender, the order in which vaccines are given, the health status of the child, concurrent vitamin/micronutrient supplementation, etc.
     
  2. Salty

    Salty Member

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    So, this is where it all gets really interesting. We tend to think of certain diseases as pretty much always being severe (smallpox, polio, etc.). But, there is some fascinating research out there that has shown that the severity of a disease (viral at least) can be affected by a host's nutritional status. And that the health of the host can actually change the viral genome, as though there's two-way communication. Paradigm-shifting stuff that I think will eventually lead us away from the "us-vs-them" war based metaphor that has dominated immunology for so long and which would nullify the legitimacy of a broadly applicable mathematical risk assessment as mentioned above and as commonly attempted in various studies.

    Host nutritional status: the neglected virulence factor (Beck, 2004)

    "However, the nutritional status of the host, until recently, has not been considered a contributing factor to the emergence of infectious disease. In this review, we show that host nutritional status can influence not only the host response to the pathogen, but can also influence the genetic make-up of the viral genome. This latter finding markedly changes our concept of host–pathogen interactions and creates a new paradigm for the study of such phenomena."

    "...Using two very different viruses (coxsackievirus and influenza virus) as model systems we have shown that a host deficiency in either selenium (Se) or vitamin E, or an excess of iron, results in a change in the viral genome. In other words, specific, stable and reproducible viral mutations occur in the genome when nutritionally compromised animals are infected with these viruses; these mutations result in increased virulence of both coxsackievirus and influenza virus. Once these mutations occur, even hosts with normal nutritional status are susceptible to the newly virulent virus. This work represents a new area of research into the interaction of host nutrition and emerging infectious disease."​

    Selenium and Vitamin E Status: Impact on Viral Pathogenicity (Beck, 2007)

    "Although the Se-deficient [selenium] mice clearly had immune dysfunction, an unexpected finding was that the viral genome itself was changed. Six nucleotides of the CVB3/0 genome were mutated to nucleotides found in myocarditic strains (14). Thus, the benign viral genome was altered in the Se-deficient host to a myocarditic strain. Once these mutations occurred, even mice with normal Se status were susceptible to the newly pathogenic strain. This was the first evidence presented, to our knowledge, which demonstrated that host nutritional status could influence a viral genome."​

    An increase in selenium intake improves immune function and poliovirus handling in adults with marginal selenium status (Broome, 2004)

    "This group of apparently healthy subjects with marginally low plasma selenium concentrations had an improved selenium status, augmented cellular immune response to live polio vaccine virus, and increased clearance of this virus after the experimental administration of small selenium supplements. There was also mutation of the attenuated poliovirus in placebo-treated subjects that was not apparent in the supplemented groups. These data clearly indicate that the previous reduced dietary intake of selenium had a significant effect on immune function."

    [They basically tested the immune response to polio vaccine virus based on selenium status. Selenium supplementation lead to less shedding and less viral mutations. Mutations in vaccine-derived poliovirus is a real and serious threat globally, yet another vaccine issue mired in obscurity.]​


    The healthier the population the less virulent the diseases? Fascination implications, both historically and for the present day. Excuse me while I go get some vitamin E...
     
  3. PakPik

    PakPik Member

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    Yes. The host resistance and resilience usually determines whether a virus will be just a little nuissance, easy to keep in check, or the virus will be a potent/primary contributor to subsequent neuroimmunological chronic disease -think autism, CFS, and autoimmune diseases. In the latter scenario, the virus subdues the hosts cells and changes their behavior to serve him and not to serve the person: basically the virus does as it pleases.

    I've read that most people with polio virus don't even notice it, or at most only get flu like symptoms. A minority get awful consequences from it, but only a minority. EBV is the same, some people deal with it when infected, others go on to develop lifelong conditions from it including cancer and immunodeficiency.

    The problem is, vaccines are contaminated with unknown live viruses (as I exposed in my previous post). You inject these unknown live viruses in a modern host that is most probably going to have nutritional imbalance, born to a mom with endocrine problems, exposed to environmental endocrine disruptors, and so on, therefore there's a BIG chance these unknown viruses are going to become very infective to this weak host. So, it seems to me we're injecting people with infections that are going to disrupt them sooner or later.

    Again, a well nourished, high metabolism, resilient type of person would probably neutralize and keep in check this live viruses. But the fact is that most people nowadays are in a nutritional and endocrine mess.

    To me it seems that virus vaccinations is like trading a known virus for unknown ones, possibly even trading a temporary infection that can be probably dealt with fine with proper care and if the host is not too weak, for cancer, multiple sclerosis, CFS, etc, down the road.

    I'm still researching this topic but the live virus contamination in vaccines and the high viral presence in persons with CFS and autism, and the emergence of viral related cancer and autoimmune diseases have been a BIG RED FLAG to me.
     
  4. Salty

    Salty Member

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    I don't disagree, PakPik, that viral contamination of vaccines is a potentially serious issue. And you are quite right that there have been many contamination controversies: polio vaccine and SV40, XMRV and vaccines that use mouse tissue, porcine viruses found in rotavirus vaccine, any number of endogenous retroviruses in any vaccine that uses animal tissues, fetal DNA in vaccines that use aborted fetal tissue for culturing, etc. I just haven't emphasized these issues in this thread because I think the whole nature of the virus-human relationship is still a relative unknown. Whether viral proliferation is cause or consequence of disease is also a question mark for me. Though I do agree completely that in a predominantly hypothyroid, ill population this type of contamination should be a significant concern. Yet another big hole in the vaccine safety discussion.
     
  5. OP
    charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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  6. tara

    tara Moderator

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    That was interesting. I knew the health of the host affected how well she resists/overcomes an infection. The bit about particular mutations arising in undernourished hosts is news to me. And, as you say, the implications for population health.

    Yeah.

    This seems an important factor to me too.
     
  7. OP
    charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    More at link: Robert de Niro says autistic son changed 'overnight' after MMR vaccine
     
  8. Giraffe

    Giraffe Moderator

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    Thanks Salty.

    One more tricky question. This 14-year-old girl with autism-like symptoms related to enterovirus encephalitis improved. Do you know if there are specific treatments that have been found to be successful with autism symptoms triggered by infections or vaccinations?
     
  9. bobbybobbob

    bobbybobbob Member

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    Well it's pretty obvious from history that the major pandemics followed famine. The black death followed widespread starvation and very low crop yields from a global cold snap.

    With the biblical Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, disease (the pale horse) does not show up alone. He rides with famine and war.
     
  10. PakPik

    PakPik Member

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    @Salty
    Interesting words by Peat:

    "In bacteria (J. Cairns; Salyers & Shoemaker, 1996), genetic changes are known to occur in response to specific substances, which lead to adaptation to that substance. The mobile elements which are responsible for the defensive adaptive response to antibiotics are similar to viruses. In these instances, the genetic dogma which has been taught very recently in the universities couldn't have been more clearly disproved. So far, the tendency in the United States is to concentrate on the details because of their technological potential (for genetic engineering of lucrative products) and to ignore the larger biological meaning of this interaction of stress with genetics.

    Resistance to antibiotics is transmitted to other bacteria by "injecting," during conjugation of a resistant bacterium with a sensitive one, a small virus-like granule containing the DNA required for detoxifying the antibiotic, along with some adjoining genes. The antibiotic itself, producing stress, stimulates the formation of this genetic package."

    "When the stress is more generalized, so that the cells survive, the more sensitive sections of DNA are rearranged within the cell. Some of them may escape as infective particles."

    "The "viral particle" itself might be biologically useful, though this wouldn't exclude the possibility that an abnormal immunological response to it could have harmful repercussions. "

    The conclusion of what we're talking about would be:

    Stress the person--->Stress the genomes (whether from the person's cells or the bacteria/virus within the person) --->Everyone, person's cells, bacteria, virus starts to rearrange themselves to survive the insult ---> Weird and ultimately harmful new "genetic packages" -virus-like material, if you will- start appearing ---> If the person was weak enough to begin with, the person's remaining order/stability will be gone ---> Disease

    Microorganisms, as much as humans, don't like to be stressed. Things become pathogenic only in inflamed, weak, disorganized tissues. From this, diseases are not a symptom of a vaccine deficiency.
     
  11. PakPik

    PakPik Member

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    @Salty
    Several experts throughout the last decades have argued that CFS/ME outbreaks were just from variants of the original sought after poliovirus, and that they shouldn't have labeled the virus cosackie, but polio. That it belonged exactly to the polio family.
     
  12. Ledo

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    bobbybob, I love your posts.
     
  13. Salty

    Salty Member

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    Hi Giraffe,

    I'm sorry. I don't really have a good answer. In most of the case studies I have read it seems that either the condition generally resolves on its own or there remain lingering symptoms. I'm guessing you are asking for someone that you know? Have you investigated the possibility of PANDAS, which is also an acute encephalitic type reaction often to strep bacteria that enters the brain during an infection? I haven't read a whole lot yet on PANDAS but there seems to be great overlap with autism, except that its associated with older children. Perhaps different manifestation due to different ages and developmental points at the time of the physiological insult (and it could be that in those older studies, what they called autism symptoms in older children might now be referred to as PANDAS?)? Here is a blog article that touches on similarities between the two (and I apologize in advance for linking to a blog, I prefer to always cite original research, but that's challenging sometimes): Autism and PANDAS

    There is also this case study that discusses the use of a treatment aimed at immune deficiency that showed some promise for both PANDAS and some autism:
    Infection-Induced Autoimmune Encephalopathy: Treatment with Intravenous Immune Globulin Therapy. A Report of Six Patients

    There is also the possibility of some success with certain antibiotics:
    PANDAS Network - Antibiotics
    News article: Boy with Autism Improves on Antibiotics, Connecting Gut Bacteria to ASD:

    "The connection between gut bacteria and autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is becoming better established. The latest link is courtesy of John Rodakis, a medical venture capitalist who published a report today on how his son’s autism symptoms improved dramatically while the child was taking an antibiotic. The boy was put on the prescription antibiotic amoxicillin to treat strep throat.
    The child was able to make eye contact, his speech development improved, and he had drive and energy his parents had never seen before."

    If it were my child I would try any and all immune boosting ideas here in Peat-land and try to see what underlying conditions are leading to the immune deficiency creating susceptibility to otherwise common infectious agents (no easy task, I know). A good article from Peat that touches on immunodeficiency:

    Immunodeficiency, dioxins, stress, and the hormones
     
  14. Salty

    Salty Member

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    Very interesting quote from Peat, PakPik. I think science is just barely beginning to understand what viruses really may be and what their ecological role is.

    The "one vaccine for one disease" model surely must collapse. Its far too narrow a view.
     
  15. Mmmaurshmallows

    Mmmaurshmallows Member

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    I hear you Tomisonbottom. And I have read plenty from trusted (alternative) medical professionals and tragic (and completely unacceptable) andecdotal stories from families like yours...plus a wide array of all topics modern medicine...to know that there is clearly a connection. It's the elephant in the room that our learned AMA can't see. As they say...they learn more and more about less and less, until they know practically nothing at all.

    More on this topic in another post soon!
     
  16. SarahBeara

    SarahBeara Member

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    I'm not qualified to debate the ins an outs of this obviously emotive and controversial topic. I will however add two points that I am qualified to talk about.

    1. I worked in health research for a time for an educational institution. I dealt with all the major pharmas on a regular basis. They couldn't be less interested in pushing vaccines. There is so little margin in them, and they are a 'once off' ie you can't keep a patient on them years and years. Now, diabetes drugs, THAT was the big fat payday they were all chasing after. Something that has to be taken daily and for decades. Next up was cardiovascular and obesity, followed by oncology and respiratory.

    2. Just because loads of people feel like their child changed after vaccinations means nothing. It's human nature to look for an immediate cause for something, it offers a sense of control in a very scary situation. But we know from the latest research that autism is most likely caused by some sort of oxidative stress in the womb. At least according to the latest animal models.
     
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