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Uncut Interview With "Vaxxed" Producer Del Bigtree

Discussion in 'Vaccines' started by charlie, Apr 3, 2016.

  1. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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  2. icecreamlover

    icecreamlover Member

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    Thank you for sharing


    O my sweet summer child....
     
  3. bobbybobbob

    bobbybobbob Member

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    This is about how vaccines cause autism. That may or not be true (I really don't know) but it's very secondary to the more important message. This is such an emotionally loaded discussion because so many people still alive experienced the terrifying pandemics. There's a deep cultural memory. There's a deeply ingrained cultural experience that we were all stalked by the pandemics and then they went away after the vaccines. Case closed.

    I went to a great uncle's funeral a few years ago and he was in a wheel chair from polio for something like 55 years. The Salk vaccine saved us all from that. That's the cultural understanding. It may even be true (I don't know).

    What everybody over 60 knows is people repeatedly got lined up to take mandatory vaccines and then the terrifying diseases like polio went away. All Americans were instructed to turn out for courses of the sugary drink with the vaccine and then later shots. This is not ancient history. It was 55 years ago. We all talk about this stuff at the dinner table. Kids used to get panicked instructions from their parents to walk a long route home to avoid quarantined houses.

    If you want to challenge widespread vaccination you are going to have to convince people that the vaccination programs of the mid 20th century weren't why the super scary diseases went away. Blathering on about autism won't do it. Too many people remember polio paralyzed relatives and other infectious deaths to give a ***t about autism. "We got lined up to take a sugary drink. Then the Polio went away."
     
  4. icecreamlover

    icecreamlover Member

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    Bringing up that vaccines prevented tons of disease is a strawman and so is the autism thing to a certain extent. 1. No one is arguing against providing immunity and 2. Mercury/aluminum/etc do not have to cause autism to be harmful. Their harmful effects are well known and not limited to autistic or down syndrome children.


    The producer said he wasn't arguing against vaccines but rather for safer ones and exposing fraud. Vaccines are harmful because of the things they use to invoke an immune response ( mercury, aluminum, some others ) which is not necessarily inherent to transferring immunity in a shot. The discussion needs to be whether the mercury/aluminum/etc can be substituted with things that are not toxic while doing the same job or better at providing immunity. I'm inclined to think that's possible because of how silenced discussion regarding vaccines is. Then again my knowledge of the immune system is extremely limited but how can we get to the bottom of this without discussing it?
     
  5. bobbybobbob

    bobbybobbob Member

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    I'm not even asserting that vaccines solved disease problems. With regard to polio it was probably mostly water chlorination and improved sewage treatment in general.

    I'm simply pointing out the plain fact that this is a tricky subject to go at in a critical way if you don't get the cultural history. The cultural history in America is people were terrified of certain diseases that scarred young people for life or killed them, then vaccines happened, then the diseases went away in the 60s and 70s. I'm not saying it was for sure the vaccines that helped. That's just the cultural memory, and it's not an insane remembrance. You can cite studies 'till the cows come home.

    The starting point for absolutely any attack on vaccines has to be Salk. Was Salk wrong? You will get nowhere in modern America on the vaccine subject without a full frontal assault on Salk. Everybody knows who Salk is and thinks he eliminated polio. I really doubt the documentary goes into this. I'm sure it's a bunch of wonkish nonsense about MMR ignoring the cultural context.
     
  6. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Well, since you brought Salk up...
    With the strong disclaimer that I am not endorsing her views, there is a woman (who I think works in the medical field) who says that not only is Salk wrong but he was part of huge coverup to blame radiation fallout symptoms on "polio".
    Polioforever's Blog

    Feel free to move the discussion over to the Conspiracy Theories thread.
     
  7. doorknobrob

    doorknobrob Member

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    George Washington used inoculation against small pox at Valley Forge. There's a history of inoculation being an effective way to boost immunity, but it is dangerous and lots of vaccines over the years are on record as having caused more harm than good. Before mass vaccination took place, disease rates of all types were already plummeting in areas with proper sanitation and antibiotics. .
     
  8. GAF

    GAF Member

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    The polio vaccine was polluted with cancer causing viruses and killed millions. See Dr Mary's Monkey. The book for a chilling story of the polio vaccine and related tales.

    Cotton Mather in 1720 ish "discovered " small pox inoculation.
     
  9. tara

    tara Moderator

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    This is what interests me too. Can the useful vaccines be made safer, and can the fraud be taken out of the system so we can have more confidence in it. I'm also short on technical knowledge inthis area.
     
  10. Makrosky

    Makrosky Member

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    I haven't researched the topic on vaccines/autism but wouldn't it be as easy as creating the vaccines without heavy metals added ?

    And if that is not possible, wouldn't it be eas easy as giving a hefty dose of zinc, selenomethionine, DMPS and/or vitamin C along with the vaccine so it can bind to the toxic mercury ?

    I think sometimes people see conspirancies everywhere and are so much ANTI everything that is ridiculous.

    In my country there used to be people that had smallpox as children and were left with a disfigured face. That doesn't happen anymore. Nor do we have crippled people because of polio. Or people sterilized by Mumps, Etc.

    There has been a recent case here of a 6 year old kid who died because of diphteria. He wasn't vaccinated because his parents were anti vaccines.
     
  11. LeeBee

    LeeBee Member

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    If you look at the charts here you can see how late in the piece vaccines were introduced. natural immunity, passed on by healthy birth and bfeeding protects us while our own health builds. Do Infectious Disease Mortality Graphs Show Vaccines Save Lives? | Vaccination Information Network
    When it is announced they are going to eradicate a disease, the first part of the process is to retrain health workers so that symptoms that they would have previously diagnosed as polio now become something like "idiopathic infantile paralysis" - rates of polio consequently appear to drop. there is an excellent book documenting this process, author is Greg Beattie. Should I vaccinate my child - immunisation controversy - risks / benefits | Vaccination - A Parent's Dilemma
     
  12. aussiedownunder

    aussiedownunder Member

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    Just to get separate vaccines ( as opposed to combined ) would be a good start. When given all at once my grand daughter of three months who was verbalising ( babbling ) etc and making eye contact went to silence and not connecting, staring at lights etc .It was so distressing to see the change . (overnight)Now she has a speech problem ( her mother is a speech therapist)I think it's better to delay vaccines ( more developed immune system) and give separately - definitely not MMR after her three month experience. Just the Sabin by itself would have been OK .She was bitten by a fruit bat last year so had the rabies course. So it's more to separate them rather than blind opposition to all vaccines.
     
  13. Makrosky

    Makrosky Member

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    For the first part, I don't know. Can't really say anything. I would say that if immunity is passed, didn't we have enough thousands of years to pass immunity to smallpox, mumps, tethanus and polio? Why precisely after vaccination occured ? I can agree with you that maybe it wasn't the vaccines. Maybe is the higienic awareness, better hospitals, better living conditions, etc. but it can also be the vaccines.

    For the second part, it is just a blatant lie. You can call it whatever you want, polio, idiopathic infantile paralysis, whatever. The hard fact is that there are almost no crippled children by polio compared with 60 years ago. And there aren't children with disfigured faces by smallpox.

    There's a very insidious addiction on being anti-everything which Peat himself is addicted to IMHO. It's vicious. Scientists are dumb, Big Pharma is ***t, Corporations are devil, MD's only want to kill you, Schools are hell, etc.

    Maybe you can tell me how is it possible that Big Pharma still manufactures non-patentable lithium carbonate pills at a few cents the box that can control very well in some cases bipolar disorders. Aren't they only interested on cronifying sickness, kill patients, patent stuff, make money without thinking in anything else, etc.? Please.
     
  14. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Peat is not addicted to being just anti. I actually asked him that a long time ago and he said that society survives precisely due to this minimum and occasional amount of good done by public services. Sometimes organizations like the FDA and CDC do really good things but those are one-offs and usually done by individuals. When it is a concerted effort involving the public image of the agency it is usually driven by lobbying and direct corruption by industry.
     
  15. Makrosky

    Makrosky Member

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    Everything has two sides. We know how bigpharma blatantly and criminally lies to the public and to the MD's. But at the same time, I'll be very glad to have a very strong bigpharma antibiotic and a couple of Harvard MD's ready to use it if I ever catch a very serious infection, a tropical disease/parasite or something like that. Same thing for vaccines, I'll be very thankful to bigpharma if i ever get bitten by a rabies dog and I can have the vaccine shot immediately. Wether it has mercury on it or not.
     
  16. dfspcc20

    dfspcc20 Member

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    A vision in a dream
  17. Salty

    Salty Member

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    Haven't see the film so I can't say anything about that specifically, but just generally interested in this discussion. One of the issues here that seems to be so often overlooked is the accuracy of historical medical statistics. Many discussions about vaccines seem to quickly degenerate into vague generalities when, in my view, its the specifics that really shed some light. And to get to specifics you really have to dig up some of the historical discussions/articles/data etc. Otherwise you're relying on way too many interpretations. And yes, that takes time and active interest. An example: it seems we tend to assume the diagnosis of something like "polio" is clear cut and absolute. As it turns out, how polio was diagnosed changed dramatically AT THE SAME TIME that the Salk vaccine was introduced.

    Here is a fascinating 1960 article (really a panel discussion) in the Illinois Medical Journal that really sheds some light on the various controversies surrounding the Salk polio vaccine AT THAT TIME (which our "cultural memory" has forgotten). It is worth reading in its entirety if interested in this topic, but here is the part about the diagnostic changes and how that artificially led to significant changes in the "incidence" of polio post vaccine introduction:

    "Prior to 1954, any physician who reported paralytic poliomyelitis was doing his patient a service by way of subsidizing the cost of hospitalization and was being community-minded in reporting a communicable disease. The criterion of diagnosis at that time in most health departments followed the WHO definition: 'Spinal paralytic poliomyelitis: Signs and symptoms of non paralytic poliomyelitis with the addition of partial or complete paralysis of one or more muscle groups, detected on two examinations at least 24 hours apart.'

    Note that 'two examinations at least 24 hours apart' was required. Laboratory conformation and presence of residual paralysis was not required. In 1955 the criteria were changed to conform more closely to the definition used in the 1954 field trials: residual paralysis was determined 10 to 20 days after onset of illness and again 50 to 70 days after onset. The influence of the field trials is still evident in most health departments; unless there is residual involvement at least 60 days after onset, a case of poliomyelitis is not considered paralytic.

    This change in definition meant that in 1955 we started reporting a new disease, namely, paralytic poliomyelitis with longer lasting paralysis. Furthermore, diagnostic procedures have continued to be refined. Coxsackie virus infections and aseptic meningitis have been distinguished from paralytic poliomyelitis. Prior to 1954 large numbers of these cases undoubtedly were mislabeled as paralytic poliomyelitis. Thus, simply by changes in diagnostic criteria, the number off paralytic cases was pre-determined to decrease in 1955-57, whether or not any vaccine was used."

    http://www.vaccination-information-...uploads/participants-database/ratner_1960.pdf


    He then goes on to also discuss the hesitance of doctors at the time to diagnose paralytic polio in vaccinated children due to the "publicity given the Salk vaccine" (even though it was known to fail in a significant proportion of the population - see pages 84-85). Same thing has been documented in more recent years with pertussis (that is, NOT diagnosing pertussis if a child was vaccinated for it despite symptoms, without any laboratory verification, "optimism bias", they call it - a significant thorn in the side of reliable pertussis statistics). Anyhow, fascinating historical piece worthy of your time if you intend to debate this topic. (I won't even touch on the explosion in childhood paralysis on the heels of the recently declared polio "eradication" in India - another topic all together, but related to the bigger story that is Polio.)

    The point noted about "cultural memory" is also a very important one. But to assume that "cultural memory" is necessarily accurate is a mistake, imo. I would say that what a culture "remembers" has more to do with what is emphasized by the authorities in the context of that particulate time and place. This does not necessarily equate with what should be emphasized, that is, the reality of a situation as it truly is.

    Vaccines are just one of those areas where the authoritarian grip and intense effort to manipulate opinion is just so intense, that even without knowing much of anything about the topic, our natural instincts should tell us that something is not quite right. It has nothing to do with just being "anti" for its own sake. Even if vaccines are moderately successful at generating some kind of immunity via antibodies, it does not negate the possibility that they are having other, unintended effects. To me THAT is the critical point - what is the FULL RANGE of effects, both short term and long term, both positive and negative, after a vaccination (or series of vaccinations and their interactions). But that seems to be a highly neglected area of mainstream research. Fear of disease can paralyze logical reasoning (no pun intended).

    Just my 2C.
     
  18. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    Uh :ss Immunologic adjuvant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  19. Makrosky

    Makrosky Member

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    Didn't know that Such, thanks. The article mentions a database of vaccine adjuvants. I checked it and there are 103 adjuvants. I'm sure BigPharma is clever enough to use any existing adjuvant (or create a new one) that is not derived from one of the most toxic compounds for humans (mercury). Really, there should not be a need for heavy metals on vaccines.
     
  20. Makrosky

    Makrosky Member

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    Very interesting information. Thanks! The theory is very plausible. It makes sense. And it happens all the time. We know they do it all the time with the psychiatric diagnostic manuals like DSM. So with the polio, ok, apparently it can be easy to disguise polio paralysis with other diganostics, or discard polio if the children were vaccinated, etc. A paralysis can be from lots of factors (accident, genetic defect, other illnesses, etc.)

    However it doesn't resist the fact that I don't know ANYONE who has the very characteristic smallpox disfigured face. What's the answer for that ? Do doctors now prescribe plastic surgery when you get smallpox or what ? Or smallpox isn't a real illness and it's endotoxin ? :bored:

    And what happened to the boy that died from difteria a few months back who wasn't vaccinated ? The first case in 32years. So the doctors and media are so evil and conspirators that they never diagnose difteria EXCEPT if the children is not vaccinated so they can blame the antivaccination theories ? Wow.
     
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