Uncoupling to deplete PUFA...

[OccamzRazer]

From 3200 to 4500 depends on the day.
Sometimes i arrive to 800g carbs.

That's an incredible amount of carbs.

Do you think your body could upregulate glucose-burning enough to handle 800g if you weren't taking the T3? Or do you think the carbs & thyroid have to go together?

 

[Risingfire]

Yes it could,I'm getting to 8% body fat without a caloric deficit, only by taking 1-2 grams of aspirin every 5-6 hours with enough honey,300 mg B1 and DHEA And or T3. Arrived to 37.4 c.

How much weight have you lost?

 

[Jonnie]

I'm honestly a bit confused how the energy balance & CICO still stands in context with use of metabolic boosting substances. Do we truly believe that you can lose fat while not in a caloric deficit around here? Or is it the usage of metabolic boosters raising metabolism / calories burned so much that your maintenance / baseline calories go significantly up?

Not much of a science guy or endocrinologist or something but in my view it's pretty clear:

Input -> conversion -> output.

When propper input is greater than the output, the middle part, conversion, will adjust. Increasing metabolism and balancing endocrine system, raising temperature, heartrate and even mindset.

Same thing happens when output is greater than nourishing input. The metabolism will adjust and slow down. If everything functions properly anyway.

 

[Soren]

Yes it could,I'm getting to 8% body fat without a caloric deficit, only by taking 1-2 grams of aspirin every 5-6 hours with enough honey,300 mg B1 and DHEA And or T3. Arrived to 37.4 c.

Do you take any Vitamin K to counteract the blood thinning effect of aspirin?

 

[Razvan]

Nope, not needed it.

 

[NommyWommy]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm going to try this. I have a capnometer so will share readings of that too...

As an aside has anyone tried DNP?

 

[Razvan]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm going to try this. I have a capnometer so will share readings of that too...

As an aside has anyone tried DNP?

Stay with more peaty stuff. Don't try still dnp can have side effects. T3+ b1+ aspirin+ mb is better.

 

[hei]

Does any of this work if you are not in peak physical condition to begin with?

 

[LadyRae]

Stay with more peaty stuff. Don't try still dnp can have side effects. T3+ b1+ aspirin+ mb is better.

I, too, have been leaning out with this combo. I gained some annoying weight over the past few months (just 5-8lbs, but noticeable in jeans ?) struggling to get my cycle back/and consistency, after too much keto and Intermittent fasting. So far I've had 2 normal cycles, sweet!

Lowering estrogen with androsterone, estroban, progesterone...

Taking 1 grain Tyromax (ndt)/day, T3 (Tyronene) several times a day.

The MB, aspirin, T3, B1 mix makes me sweat-great before a sprint workout. Adding succinic acid boosts this uncoupling, too.

Anyone feel aspirin inhibits fat loss though??

 

[Jing]

Look yesterday i ate 4200 calories and still shredding and vascularity upp

You did say you don't track calories Everyday so you are probably just eating below maintenance most days which is why you are losing fat.

 

[Randle Cyclist]

Thanks f I have a capnometer so will share readings of that too...

As an aside has anyone tried DNP?

Don't even consider DNP unless you're willing to forfeit your long term health or even your very life in exchange for uncoupling/weight loss. I don't care what anyone says, it is not a pure uncoupler, meaning it has peripheral effects aside from its action on the mitochondria.

Ignore the circle jerk of DNP advocates on reddit and bodybuilding forums. They've lulled themselves into a false sense of security. I guarantee you more people are going to end up dead or maimed as the knowledge and allure of DNP spreads. It is not a matter of if, but when, it will harm you, doubly so now that the only sources seem to be from industrial chem suppliers in China with questionable purity standards.

Even if you had the "pure" stuff from a few years back when DNP was easier to find, you'd be gambling with your health and the odds would be stacked against you. I had to find out the hard way. It's just not worth it.

Eat low fat and do resistance training to speed up pufa depletion. If you want to experience uncoupling, try to work up to higher doses of caffeine with enough sugar to prevent a stress response. I find that uncoupling starts around 300mg, with full effects at twice that amount. Having enough glucose is key otherwise your cortisol will skyrocket and your hands will go icy cold.

Check out the study below if you haven't seen it already. I believe Haidut posted it here years ago.

Effects of Caffeine on Metabolism and Mitochondria Biogenesis in Rhabdomyosarcoma Cells Compared with 2,4-Dinitrophenol

This work investigated if treatment with caffeine or 2,4-dinitrophenol (DNP) induce expression of peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor coactivator 1 alpha (PGC-1α) and increase both mitochondrial biosynthesis and metabolism in skeletal muscle.Human ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[NommyWommy]

@Randle Cyclist can I ask what problems you had with DNP?

 

[Randle Cyclist]

@Randle Cyclist can I ask what problems you had with DNP?

Sure, the first time I took it it nearly killed me. I was taking 600mg of Russian crystal DNP and was feeling great until 3 days in I had an allergic reaction with hives all over. Overnight, my body temperature rose to over 104F accompanied by extreme thirst and delirium. I didn't learn my lesson (my desire to lose weight fast overrode my sense of caution) so I resumed a few weeks later with antihistamines until I reached my goal weight. I had swollen, red, itchy legs on and off during that time. I went from 190lbs to 170 in a matter of weeks. I remained weight stable for over a year with the only lingering side effects being occasional weakness and heaviness in my legs that eventually resolved on its own. I was glad it was over with and thought I'd never use it again.

Well, after an extremely stressful event in my life, I went up to 185lbs and decided DNP would be the best way to cut effortlessly. This time I used an American source. I felt fantastic while taking it, way better than normal, (likely due to my abysmal thyroid function at the time) and continued on it until I ran out after 6 weeks, ending up around 165lbs. I stayed on it far longer than I had planned because of how good it made me feel. The sides I experienced towards the end of the run were minor, just some occasional pins and needles sensations in my arms and a slight fullness in my ears that would come and go. Both eventually went away within days of quitting. I even had an eye exam after the 6 weeks and no cataracts were found. At this point, I felt DNP was a miracle substance that was unduly withdrawn from the market and that my very first experience with it was just a fluke. Looking back, I believe the reason I felt so good on it is that it was functioning as a thyroid surrogate, as I later had a thyroid test done which revealed atrocious numbers.

Over a year after that, I foolishly used DNP again despite having very little fat to lose. Perhaps the stuff has the potential to be addictive, or maybe I just missed how great it made me feel ,especially during winter. So I used some Chinese DNP in varying amounts, as all the old DNP vendors were gone at this point. This time around, the euphoria and sense of well-being never came. Instead, the burning pins and needles sensation in my arms returned almost immediately and lingered, followed by a cascade of nasty side effects over the next ten days.

I had the following side effects: extreme fatigue, unquenchable thirst, nausea, loss of appetite, heavy and swollen legs, insurmountable drowsiness, burning pain in my gums anytime I'd salivate, prolonged tinnitus sometimes accompanied by hearing loss in one ear, acne, bloody sinuses, irritability, horrible body odor, numb hands and feet (neuropathy), marked total body inflammation, and color vision changes. The latter I noticed when I looked through some latticework into my yard I saw a stark difference in color between my left and right eye. Out of my left eye the grass was green and healthy but out of my right they were yellow and dry. Needless to say, I immediately quit after the rapid emergence of these side effects and destroyed my supply of DNP.

The above side effects came on fast and hard and were slow to resolve. They're all gone now, except for the occasional heavy legs. I consider myself fortunate that further damage was not done though I shudder at the thought of what effects it had on my organs. It's worth mentioning that I took vitamin c and e along with taurine which apparently did nothing to prevent side effects.

Based on my experience, I can see how many people are emboldened to take DNP. However, the substance can quickly turn on you, or rather your body's reaction to it can vary significantly over a short period of time. It's unpredictable and dangerous. Oh, and it also stops working or your body develops a tolerance over time, i.e. it backfires. I don't think anyone knows the exact mechanism of this but I would wager that it's an attempt by the body to slow the metabolism. Whatever the mechanism, it can't be good.

 

[OccamzRazer]

Does any of this work if you are not in peak physical condition to begin with?

In general, the thinner you are the less PUFA you'll have stored and the more selectively insulin sensitive your body will be.

So having low body fat% and/or good muscle development can make it easier to 'handle' carbs.

 

[NommyWommy]

Sure, the first time I took it it nearly killed me. I was taking 600mg of Russian crystal DNP and was feeling great until 3 days in I had an allergic reaction with hives all over. Overnight, my body temperature rose to over 104F accompanied by extreme thirst and delirium. I didn't learn my lesson (my desire to lose weight fast overrode my sense of caution) so I resumed a few weeks later with antihistamines until I reached my goal weight. I had swollen, red, itchy legs on and off during that time. I went from 190lbs to 170 in a matter of weeks. I remained weight stable for over a year with the only lingering side effects being occasional weakness and heaviness in my legs that eventually resolved on its own. I was glad it was over with and thought I'd never use it again.

Well, after an extremely stressful event in my life, I went up to 185lbs and decided DNP would be the best way to cut effortlessly. This time I used an American source. I felt fantastic while taking it, way better than normal, (likely due to my abysmal thyroid function at the time) and continued on it until I ran out after 6 weeks, ending up around 165lbs. I stayed on it far longer than I had planned because of how good it made me feel. The sides I experienced towards the end of the run were minor, just some occasional pins and needles sensations in my arms and a slight fullness in my ears that would come and go. Both eventually went away within days of quitting. I even had an eye exam after the 6 weeks and no cataracts were found. At this point, I felt DNP was a miracle substance that was unduly withdrawn from the market and that my very first experience with it was just a fluke. Looking back, I believe the reason I felt so good on it is that it was functioning as a thyroid surrogate, as I later had a thyroid test done which revealed atrocious numbers.

Over a year after that, I foolishly used DNP again despite having very little fat to lose. Perhaps the stuff has the potential to be addictive, or maybe I just missed how great it made me feel ,especially during winter. So I used some Chinese DNP in varying amounts, as all the old DNP vendors were gone at this point. This time around, the euphoria and sense of well-being never came. Instead, the burning pins and needles sensation in my arms returned almost immediately and lingered, followed by a cascade of nasty side effects over the next ten days.

I had the following side effects: extreme fatigue, unquenchable thirst, nausea, loss of appetite, heavy and swollen legs, insurmountable drowsiness, burning pain in my gums anytime I'd salivate, prolonged tinnitus sometimes accompanied by hearing loss in one ear, acne, bloody sinuses, irritability, horrible body odor, numb hands and feet (neuropathy), marked total body inflammation, and color vision changes. The latter I noticed when I looked through some latticework into my yard I saw a stark difference in color between my left and right eye. Out of my left eye the grass was green and healthy but out of my right they were yellow and dry. Needless to say, I immediately quit after the rapid emergence of these side effects and destroyed my supply of DNP.

The above side effects came on fast and hard and were slow to resolve. They're all gone now, except for the occasional heavy legs. I consider myself fortunate that further damage was not done though I shudder at the thought of what effects it had on my organs. It's worth mentioning that I took vitamin c and e along with taurine which apparently did nothing to prevent side effects.

Based on my experience, I can see how many people are emboldened to take DNP. However, the substance can quickly turn on you, or rather your body's reaction to it can vary significantly over a short period of time. It's unpredictable and dangerous. Oh, and it also stops working or your body develops a tolerance over time, i.e. it backfires. I don't think anyone knows the exact mechanism of this but I would wager that it's an attempt by the body to slow the metabolism. Whatever the mechanism, it can't be good.

Wow thanks for putting this together. Advice taken. You feel okay now?

 

[Razvan]

You did say you don't track calories Everyday so you are probably just eating below maintenance most days which is why you are losing fat.

Nice "Mr know my stuff more than me" !
I didn't invent numbers random, i count my calories everyday. I have years of experience counting calories and i can eye ball almost everything since I remember almost every nutritional value. But still i count them almost everyday. I never eat less than 3200 calories.

 

[Randle Cyclist]

Wow thanks for putting this together. Advice taken. You feel okay now?

No problem. I simply want to counter all the guides and FAQs out there that posit that DNP can be used without ill effects. I would have never taken DNP had I not been persuaded by them. I am close to 100 percent again though a slight difference in color vision persists but it's far less noticeable than 6 months ago. I also feel my energy levels are not what they once were plus I've been having a hard time trying to gain weight since the second time I took DNP. Let me restate that if you want to experience uncoupling, caffeine will take you there.

 

[OccamzRazer]

I never eat less than 3200 calories.

This is really key for a young person - maybe for anyone. The body adapts to higher cals eventually.

 

[schultz]

Don't even consider DNP unless you're willing to forfeit your long term health or even your very life in exchange for uncoupling/weight loss.

Mice that were given low dose DNP had increased lifespan.

I think low dose DNP would increase longevity. People in the bodybuilding world take ridiculous amounts of DNP, or anything really, because they are seem to be willing to risk their health for rapid results. I believe a healthy dose would be 25mg a day. There is this idea in the fitness world that you can't get results from such a dose, but I think over the course of several years if you were to compare two average people, one taking and one not taking, with similar diets, the DNP user would be leaner.

 

[Randle Cyclist]

Mice that were given low dose DNP had increased lifespan.

I think low dose DNP would increase longevity. People in the bodybuilding world take ridiculous amounts of DNP, or anything really, because they are seem to be willing to risk their health for rapid results. I believe a healthy dose would be 25mg a day. There is this idea in the fitness world that you can't get results from such a dose, but I think over the course of several years if you were to compare two average people, one taking and one not taking, with similar diets, the DNP user would be leaner.

Yes, they would be a little leaner, but couldn't the same results be accomplished more safely with coffee or thyroid supplementation? The long term effects aren't well studied but I guarantee you neurological and nephrological damage would eventually occur. Its main metabolite, 2-amino-4-nitrophenol, is known to cause carcinoma in rats. I don't think it's prudent to use it but everyone is free to come to their own conclusion. I certainly won't touch the stuff ever again.