Uncoupler DNP Causing Peripheral Neuropathy, How?

[superhuman]

Hello

I have done a couple of DNP cycles and i also know alot of people that have done them. It seems like some people gets PN(peripheral neuropathy) from DNP. I myself also got that after my last cycle so i stopped. I got it in my fingers and mostly feet.

I was wondering if anyone here has any information in terms of why this happends, how to prevent it and how to recover as fast as possible from it?

Some studies are also showing that DNP is nerve protective so its very strange and nobody has really found out how the DNP is causing the PN.

I talked a little bit with Ray about it and he thought this:
"I think it’s mainly because of the reduction of cholesterol, pregnenolone, progesterone and related neurosteroids."

 

[tomisonbottom]

Why take DNP when you are having issues with it?

Have you tried aspirin in larger doses?
Aspirin Comparable To DNP As Mitochondrial Uncoupler

 

[Such_Saturation]

Probably adrenaline...

 

[superhuman]

@tomisonbottom i have tried the aspirin in that high doses, causes ringing in ears etc and cant compare the sligthest to DNP in turns of increasing metabolic rate.

@Such_Saturation hmm what do you mean? explain more?

 

[ecstatichamster]

It may deplete b12

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0022510X84901473

 

[superhuman]

@ecstatichamster hmm i have done b12 methyl 1000mg a day and it did not help anything

 

[Such_Saturation]

1000mg a day

 

[superhuman]

@Such_Saturation sorry, typo. 1000mcg

 

[ecstatichamster]

It may deplete magnesium.

The dependence of oxidative phosphorylation and ATP-ase of liver mitochondria on bound Mg2+

 

[Koveras]

Potassium?

Uncouplers” are usually seen as good and desirable for wight loss but they do so by disrupting the delicate balance in the respiratory proteins alluded to above. The classical uncoupler 2,4-dinitrophenol, an acidic aromatic compound, for instance, as an electron donating cardinal adsorbent disturbs the electronic balance of the respiratory proteins as to impair the delicate oscillatory nature of the respiratory proteins through which ATP is generated. In effect uncouplers favors the state in which the ATP generating enzyme becomes active, opposing the effect of ATP. And in the absence of potassium the continued exposure to uncouplers blocks respiration, leaving the cell in a dead, swollen state. Extra potassium is vital whenever uncouplers are involved. The swelling caused by uncouplers such as thyroid hormone, for instance, are almost immediately reversed by potassium (and ATP). Insulin, on the other hand, parallels the effects of ATP.

 

[superhuman]

@ecstatichamster hmm never heard anyone talk about it, how do you recommend filling it up again if thats the case or test it out ?

@Koveras im not sure, some say that supplementing with potassium during a DNP cycle is dangerous and increase the likelygood of PN so im not sure

 

[Philomath]

ATP supplementation?

 

[superhuman]

@Philomath how do you do that?

 

[Philomath]

You can purchase ATP in capsules on Amazon - Life Extension, Douglas Labs

 

[superhuman]

@Philomath thanx. But why do you think its related to the PN?

 

[Philomath]

“Metabolic energy is fundamental to the development and maintenance of the body, and to the “ways in which living beings react to changed circumstances.” It’s an obvious first thing to consider when thinking about any “disease,” whether it’s cancer, radiation, sickness, dementia, depression, or traumatic injury.”
-Ray Peat

As Energy is critical for repair and growth, I would presume ATP would help in dealing with neuropathy. That was stated in the quote provided by Koveras...
"The swelling caused by uncouplers such as thyroid hormone, for instance, are almost immediately reversed by potassium (and ATP). Insulin, on the other hand, parallels the effects of ATP."
I believe swelling and neuropathy are similar - a common origin with maybe one coming before the other

Modification of neuropathic pain sensation through microglial ATP receptors
We found that the marked tactile allodynia that develops following nerve injury was reversed by acutely administering TNP-ATP intrathecally

Also, I just found this - apparently glycine may help with swelling and neuropathy:

Neurol Res. 1998 Mar;20(2):161-8. Glycine receptor reduction within segmental gray matter in a rat model in neuropathic pain. Simpson RK Jr, Huang W.

Neurol Res. 2000 Mar;22(2):160-4. Long-term intrathecal administration of glycine prevents mechanical hyperalgesia in a rat model of neuropathic pain. Huang W, Simpson RK.

"The range of injuries produced by an excess of tryptophan and serotonin seems to be prevented or corrected by a generous supply of glycine. Fibrosis, free radical damage, inflammation, cell death from ATP depletion or calcium overload, mitochondrial damage, diabetes, etc., can be prevented or alleviated by glycine."
-Ray Peat

 

[superhuman]

@Philomath great reply/post man, thanx a ton. But swelling from uncouplers i thought thyroid should prevent swelling? DNP causes swelling i know.

How much potassium are we talking about in terms of maybe repair a neuropathy state?

 

[Philomath]

Hard to say. If you get plenty of OJ you may want to up your intake progressively. You could also add coconut water to your regiment. OJ has about 500mg potassium per cup, coconut water has roughly 600mg. Or you could add some cream of tarter (potassium bitertrate) - maybe 1/2 tsp a day.
You can buy glycine from purebulk I think - pretty inexpensive. Haidut has great posts on glycine btw.

 

[superhuman]

@Philomath Hmm im currently consuming 3-4 quarts milk a day so thats also a good amount of potassium.

I use regular gelatin so thats glycine as well

 

[Philomath]

If you're getting that much milk I doubt potassium is the issue, unless you have an absorbtion problem.
Things to experiment with:
-adding extra stand alone glycine (grams)
-ATP
-Epsom salt soak with aspirin and bath bomb
-Vitamin E