Unclear On Acidity/Alkalinity Of Foods/the Body

Amazoniac

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I think I gave the wrong impression. The general rule is that the body does strictly control pH and this is true for most. Of course, if one's electrolyte intake was severely lopsided on one side or high in one mineral and low in another etc. problems do arise. Calcium deficiency is an obvious example of this of course. I mean you could easily say a deficiency of calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, sodium, chlorine, or potassium will cause and acid/alkaline imbalance and thats probably right but one's electrolyte intake or vitamin D status has to be horrid to start causing problems. Even with poor intakes the body secretes hormones to maintain minimal levels and can do that for some time. Acidosis and alkalosis are real medical conditions but the proponents of the acidity/alkalinity theory paint a reality where we are all too acidic when this is almost never the case. I never heard these pH folk say there is such as thing as too alkaline, its always about acid, and "acid-forming foods" like meat, milk, and eggs.
Not really, the situation doesn't need to be critical for it to become an issue and it's beyond eletrolyte balance. There are serious complications in alkalosis, but have you ever compared its causes to those of acidosis? Because if so, it's easy to realize how chronic degenerative conditions might pass through alkalosis but tend to eventually lead to acidosis.

Gershom Zajicek has his classic disease progression graph in various presentations, and regardless if people are reversing their problems or not, it's probable that most are under control below the detection threshold. Just because you don't feel it, doesn't mean it's not there. No need to be in frank acidosis or alkalosis.

Raj's concept of reductive stress with incomplete oxidation gives you an idea of its prevalence. Have you ever considered how many people benefit from the orange juice with sodium bicarbonate combination? It's high in the alkaline minerals, bicarbonate and citrate as a precursor: brutal alkalinization.
And vinegar, which is supposed to magically become alkaline in the body. I never got them to explain that one.
So you use an inaccurate remark to discard their whole theory by writing that 'it's all baking soda'?

By the way, when Raj warns against citrate, it must be the acid form, as when you can taste the sourness in citrus fruits; in these cases it can rob you of minerals. This is not a reason to avoid calcium citrate for example, you can search for a comparison between this form and carbonate, and you'll confirm that it not only reaches at least similar blood concentrations after ingestion (good adsorption) and lowering of paratyphoid hormone level, but it often does it better than the carbonate form.
 
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Hugh Johnson

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So you use an inaccurate remark to discard their whole theory by writing that 'it's all baking soda'?

By the way, when Raj warns against citrate, it must be the acid form, as when you can taste the sourness in citrus fruits; in these cases it can rob you of minerals. This is not a reason to avoid calcium citrate for example, you can search for a comparison between this form and carbonate, and you'll confirm that it not only reaches at least similar blood concentrations after ingestion (good adsorption) and lowering of paratyphoid hormone level, but it often does it better than the carbonate form.
Benefits of Raw Apple Cider Vinegar - pH Alkaline Diet - Hippocrates Food - Bragg's ACV - Salad Dressing Recipe | Jennifer Betesh

People concerned with ph do seem to claim vinegar is magically alkaline. Or ACV is for some reason.

I dismiss the theory because the body, if given sufficient resources and not stressed excessively with hyperventilation or other ways manages the ph balance very well. Otherwise you would be dead. There is also no reason to favour higher or lower ph except in cases of cancer, but even there ph-balance people are wrong. Cancer cells are alkaline inside.
 

Amazoniac

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Benefits of Raw Apple Cider Vinegar - pH Alkaline Diet - Hippocrates Food - Bragg's ACV - Salad Dressing Recipe | Jennifer Betesh

People concerned with ph do seem to claim vinegar is magically alkaline. Or ACV is for some reason.

I dismiss the theory because the body, if given sufficient resources and not stressed excessively with hyperventilation or other ways manages the ph balance very well. Otherwise you would be dead. There is also no reason to favour higher or lower ph except in cases of cancer, but even there ph-balance people are wrong. Cancer cells are alkaline inside.
I don't know how exactly these are metabolized, but they are acids after all.

The mechanism responsible for the alkalinization when they're already ionized as conjugated bases is that they will enter the respiratory cycle and the process consumes hydrogens ions (lowering its availability and decreasing the acidity) and generates carbon dioxide (or bicarbonate relying on carbonic anhydrase?).

- Metabolic fate of lactate, acetate, citrate and gluconate | Deranged Physiology

:lol:
upload_2019-7-28_8-32-31.png


"All these bicarbonate precursors funnel into the Citric Acid Cycle, which consumes hydrogen ions. The consumption of hydrogen ions is equivalent to the generation of bicarbonate (given the equilibrium between the two)."

When they is taken as acids, they will release hydrogen ions which might be later on compensated when they're consumed in the process of respiration. Perhaps the organic anion complexes with alkaline minerals as well beforehand, but is also released later on. So at most it's neutral and possibly acidifying. When the organic acids cannot enter the respiratory cycle, they will be acidifying, like oxalic or tartaric acid (since there's no use for oxalate or tatrate), so at the same time that they release hydrogen ions, they make you excrete alkaline minerals in the urine.

With the above in mind, if the goal is to acidify the interior of the cell again, they're on the right track by favoring such alkalinizing diets:
- Excess Magnesium Chloride Intake Causes Frank Acidosis

Your last paragraph sounds cool in theory, but in practice people are already stressed and have trouble maintaining balance even when there's no extra strain. Since most people tend towards acidosis -- otherwise why are people often relieved by alkalinizing substances up until it becomes overwhelming? -- it makes sense to favor it slightly.

In terms of electrolytes, if you use cancer as a model of metabolic derangement, it's almost a low-everything state because even the hypercalcemia of malignancy is not of dietary origin (as Raj often comments). Koch for example has mentioned the importance of consuming more calcium in these cases. Therefore it's usually safer to increase everything along instead of just pounding sodium chloride.
 

Hugh Johnson

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I don't know how exactly these are metabolized, but they are acids after all.

The mechanism responsible for the alkalinization when they're already ionized as conjugated bases is that they will enter the respiratory cycle and the process consumes hydrogens ions (lowering its availability and decreasing the acidity) and generates carbon dioxide (or bicarbonate relying on carbonic anhydrase?).

- Metabolic fate of lactate, acetate, citrate and gluconate | Deranged Physiology

:lol:
View attachment 14115

"All these bicarbonate precursors funnel into the Citric Acid Cycle, which consumes hydrogen ions. The consumption of hydrogen ions is equivalent to the generation of bicarbonate (given the equilibrium between the two)."

When they is taken as acids, they will release hydrogen ions which might be later on compensated when they're consumed in the process of respiration. Perhaps the organic anion complexes with alkaline minerals as well beforehand, but is also released later on. So at most it's neutral and possibly acidifying. When the organic acids cannot enter the respiratory cycle, they will be acidifying, like oxalic or tartaric acid (since there's no use for oxalate or tatrate), so at the same time that they release hydrogen ions, they make you excrete alkaline minerals in the urine.

With the above in mind, if the goal is to acidify the interior of the cell again, they're on the right track by favoring such alkalinizing diets:
- Excess Magnesium Chloride Intake Causes Frank Acidosis

Your last paragraph sounds cool in theory, but in practice people are already stressed and have trouble maintaining balance even when there's no extra strain. Since most people tend towards acidosis -- otherwise why are people often relieved by alkalinizing substances up until it becomes overwhelming? -- it makes sense to favor it slightly.

In terms of electrolytes, if you use cancer as a model of metabolic derangement, it's almost a low-everything state because even the hypercalcemia of malignancy is not of dietary origin (as Raj often comments). Koch for example has mentioned the importance of consuming more calcium in these cases. Therefore it's usually safer to increase everything along instead of just pounding sodium chloride.
Good post. You have convinced me that there might be something to this Ph-balance stuff. Although most proponents of alkaline diet are not making a strong case, you do seem to have a coherent opinion.
 
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By the way, when Raj warns against citrate, it must be the acid form, as when you can taste the sourness in citrus fruits; in these cases it can rob you of minerals. This is not a reason to avoid calcium citrate for example, you can search for a comparison between this form and carbonate, and you'll confirm that it not only reaches at least similar blood concentrations after ingestion (good adsorption) and lowering of paratyphoid hormone level, but it often does it better than the carbonate form.
Noice. Do you think calcium malate would be a big improvement compared to calcium citrate?
 
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By the way, when Raj warns against citrate, it must be the acid form, as when you can taste the sourness in citrus fruits; in these cases it can rob you of minerals. This is not a reason to avoid calcium citrate for example, you can search for a comparison between this form and carbonate, and you'll confirm that it not only reaches at least similar blood concentrations after ingestion (good adsorption) and lowering of paratyphoid hormone level, but it often does it better than the carbonate form.
Also, how much are you getting paid by the citric acid industry to say that?
 

Daniil

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wholemeal bread
LOL. I just fell into a precipitate from this. There is not even such a thing as "wholemeal bread" in the Caucasus. They eat mainly tortillas made of white wheat flour. Lavash, churek, etc. And I'm betting it was beef/mutton broth. Not chicken.

As for this man, I heard that he ate a bar of chocolate every day.
 

Vins7

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The alkalinity/acidity theory of disease and illness has been around quite a bit but it has constantly been debunked and struck down and there is a reason for that. The body strictly regulates the pH of the body, including regulating certain organs to keep them in the correct range as some organs have different pH values that they need to operate properly.

Perhaps you just need more alkaline electrolytes or acidic electrolytes, chlorine and phosphorus being the acidic ones.

Sodium, potassium, calcium, magnesium, are incredibly vital alkaline elements necessary for proper function of virtually every process and its these minerals that are usually lacking in people. And of those minerals, sodium is generally the problem(lacking). Hypothyroidism leads to reduced ability to hold on to sodium. With this in mind, this indirectly leads to subadequate potassium, calcium, and magnesium levels as they are excreted in order to conserve sodium. Sodium needs to be kept at a constant optimal level to allow one to increase the levels of other electrolytes successfully. Thyroid directly aids in this.



Sodium itself is alkaline, chlorine is the source of acidity in salt.
How many grams of salt should eat an hypothyroid person on average?
 

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