Unclear On Acidity/Alkalinity Of Foods/the Body

Discussion in 'Acidity vs. Alkalinity' started by Cirion, Jul 15, 2019.

  1. Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    I have been starting to look more into this since I suspect the balance of acidity/alkalinity is the basis for a lot of my health issues.

    So typically, when I measure my urine pH, it's actually fine or even slightly alkaline. So, that would mean I'm fine and can handle some acid foods in the diet, right? Well, the opposite seems to be the case. If I even touch an acid forming food, I'm in trouble. In particular is meat. Granted, though, I only started measuring pH once I removed meat from my diet. Meat also lowers my metabolism, reduces my temperatures (especially waking temperatures the next day) etc. So clearly, meat and me do not mix. Maybe the meat does indeed cause an extreme acid response, I'd have to actually measure to see for sure.

    Also, I'm confused on salt. A book I am reading now (Cracking the metabolic code) says that Sea salt is alkalinizing, whereas people like Dr. Morse say ALL salts are acidic. Which is it?

    I was interested to see in cracking the metabolic code that they say whey and yogurt are two options for alkaline dairy if you want to eat dairy but not have the acidity problems of milk and ice cream. FWIW, they say ice cream is heavily acidic (much more than milk), and anecdotally I find that to be true. I feel awful after ice cream, and instantly gain lots of weight. Yogurt is not spoken of favorably in peat-land but I am thinking of experimenting with it now.

    The book says that Beef in particular is the heaviest acid forming of all meats. And, that seems to be true. I can not even tolerate 8 oz of beef without a heavy blow to my metabolism.
     
  2. jamies33

    jamies33 Member

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    Not an expert, but paraphrasing Ray: salt and phosphate are the main acidifiers in the diet, and therefore calcium, fructose, baking soda, potassium are the main alkalinizers. I would assume "salt" means sodium.

    Based on that, sea salt may be alkalinizing because it comprises more than simply sodium, but other things like potassium, magnesium, and maybe even some selenium, zinc, or etc although the main thing is sodium.

    Salt is known to increase urea, which is formed by CO2 + Ammonia - this may suggest that salt, albeit acidic, has a net alkaline (or otherwise net healing) effect on the body.
     
  3. OP
    Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    Yeah in the book they say that some foods can have technically acid pH but have a net alkaline effect on the body. An example are oranges - technically acid but actually cause the body to become more alkaline.

    The yogurt in particular got my attention.

    @Runenight201 has told me recently that yogurt is his "secret weapon" to metabolism.

    The longest living man (allegedly 168 yrs old) had yogurt as a staple in his diet.

    Shirali Muslimov - Wikipedia

    " fruits, vegetables, wholemeal bread, chicken broth, low-fat cheese and yogurt"

    almost all Peat-y and also almost all alkaline foods.

    Presumably chicken broth for the gelatin, and of course cheese and yogurt for the calcium and protein. He ate a zero meat diet. His bread I bet was home made. And of course his low fat diet is also Peat friendly due to absence of PUFA's.

    I am thinking of learning how to bake so I can do my own bread too, but with safe (unbleached) flour.
     
  4. Hugh Johnson

    Hugh Johnson Member

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    It's all bs. The body deals with Ph, and the only thing you need to do is get enough calcium so the body does not need to use protein.

    If you have cancer, then there might be reason to care. Even then it's mostly just about bicarbonate and CO2 when it comes to Ph.
     
  5. Andy316

    Andy316 Member

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    Are you Hypothyroid? I am and I share your experiences with Acidic foods causing me problems too. What has helped is cutting down red meat, fermented products(including yoghurt) and carbonated drinks. Sea salt actually makes me feel good as I heard adrenals love salt. Long term however I think we need to fix the Thyroid and liver to be able to enjoy all foods without issues.

     
  6. CLASH

    CLASH Member

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    I have a book that is an anthropologic study on the abkasian people of the caucasus mountains, supposedly some of the longest living people. This is the same area that shirali is from if i’m not mistaken. The people in this region eat mostly fruit, nuts, corn, raw greens, vegetables, fermented milk and ruminant meat. Their diet is not low PUFA and definetly not Peat-y.

    I dont think the acid/ base theory is a great lense from which to look at foods and physiology.
     
  7. SOMO

    SOMO Member

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    Food doesn’t affect body pH.

    Certain nutrients in food like Phosphate may cause the body to temporarily (not long term) shift towards acidity but most pH cultists claim dairy is acidic when in reality it’s the most alkaline food there is due to the calcium content.
     
  8. OP
    Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    Temporarily is enough to convince me. You don't want the body in a stressed or acidic or otherwise detrimental state, even if temporary. Yes, the effects of food are absolutely temporary in general. But you absolutely can get stuck in a chronic acid body status if you intake excess acid promoting foods day in and day out.

    As for milk, the book acknowledges that RAW milk is probably alkaline. But the garbage that passes for milk in most stores is acidic. Because I can't easily get raw milk, it's not really viable for milk to be part of my diet. This is the part I don't think I will ever agree with Peat on. I'm 100% all for quality milk, but he thinks that even the junk with synthetic added vitamins, pasteurization, homogenization, A1 milk is perfectly fine.

    Nothing cultish at all about processed milk or processed foods in general.
     
  9. jamies33

    jamies33 Member

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    I think that says a lot of about how highly Peat regards calcium
     
  10. OP
    Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    Yeah that's totally fair enough. Just hasn't been my experience. But maybe one day I'll try milk again.

    Trying some greek yogurt + added sugar (in the form of maple syrup) and gonna see how that treats me for now...

    It's chobani with zero additives. So I feel a lot better about this than commercial skim milk.

    To be honest the idea of eating cheese again, not gonna lie is a little appealing. But every time I've had cheese in the past it hasn't done good things for me. I don't think there are any non-fat cheeses with no added ingredients though, and those didn't treat me well. I am trying to deplete PUFA/bodyfat so I am trying to avoid all fats as much as I can, and even the low-fat cheeses can add up quick in fats.

    Deep down I think Ray is right about calcium, so I think it's a matter of finding out which calcium rich foods work for my body.
     
  11. Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    I thought yogurt was, and I certainly felt strong eating it, but alas I have dropped it. It just didn’t digest right, not in the same way that normal milk does for me.

    I think what allows me to handle milk is avoiding stomach bloat and ensuring that all my food is being properly digested and moved along. Also pairing milk with appropriate foods is important for me as well. There definitely is an upper limit to the amount of milk I tolerate a day (which is true for every food I eat), and it sits around 2 cups a day

    I enjoy the egg yolk soup with milk. That is a good combination so far. I think the salt and egg help immensely with the digestion of milk.

    ALSO not all meat is created equal. Chicken drum sticks seem to always digest perfectly, where as beef gets clogged up. I need to experiment down the line with different types of fish soups, as it makes sense from an evolutionary perspective that we would have eaten a substantial amount of fish as we traversed the world. For now tho I am content with my chicken drum sticks :) Oh how I yearn for a chef who can prepare me everything from scratch! I have become skilled in the art of the microwave, and while it sustains and nourishes, I am missing out on the upper peaks of health. I despise cooking, but must undertake it in order to be healthy. An individual cannot fully flourish with so much precious time wasted towards the maintenance of their well-being!

    The bedrock of society, built upon the backs of those who cook, and what better sign to show the demise of our society, than by the inability to easily and cheaply purchase properly prepared meals! How much better a people are when their source of energy is health promoting, widely available, and cheaply obtained.
     
  12. OP
    Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    Lol dude you change your mind on optimal diet probably almost as much as me =P

    Yeah the yogurt seemed to bloat me tonight. But I did feel pretty good while eating it I suppose.

    Then I took an epsom salt + baking soda bath and my bloat immediately dropped slightly over a lb. These epsom salt+soda baths seem magical for de-bloating. I got lazy and stopped doing them on saturday, and wouldn't you know it, my weight loss streak immediately broke on sunday.

    Yeah it says in cracking the metabolic code that beef is the most acidic protein. But its tryptophan content is low. So a catch 22. High tryptophan meats are less acidic.
     
  13. Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    I don’t mind it tho, because the more I experiment, and observe, and conclude, and error, and understand, the more wisdom i gain. Perhaps tomorrow I will eat yogurt again, and be all the better for it!

    What I’ve pieced together so far has brought me to new peaks of health that I could have only dreamed of as a teenager. All my fantasies, once only enjoyed by my imagination, I now feel as if i have the tools to bring to fruition!

    Maybe I don’t completely understand, and tomorrow I will err in my own folly, but all the better, for out of my errors come the most glorious highs of strength and vitality!
     
  14. redsun

    redsun Member

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    The alkalinity/acidity theory of disease and illness has been around quite a bit but it has constantly been debunked and struck down and there is a reason for that. The body strictly regulates the pH of the body, including regulating certain organs to keep them in the correct range as some organs have different pH values that they need to operate properly.

    Perhaps you just need more alkaline electrolytes or acidic electrolytes, chlorine and phosphorus being the acidic ones.

    Sodium, potassium, calcium, magnesium, are incredibly vital alkaline elements necessary for proper function of virtually every process and its these minerals that are usually lacking in people. And of those minerals, sodium is generally the problem(lacking). Hypothyroidism leads to reduced ability to hold on to sodium. With this in mind, this indirectly leads to subadequate potassium, calcium, and magnesium levels as they are excreted in order to conserve sodium. Sodium needs to be kept at a constant optimal level to allow one to increase the levels of other electrolytes successfully. Thyroid directly aids in this.

    Sodium itself is alkaline, chlorine is the source of acidity in salt.
     
  15. Ron J

    Ron J Member

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    @redsun
    What's your daily sodium intake?
     
  16. redsun

    redsun Member

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    It varies but its always higher then 4g sodium and is usually in the range of 5-6g, sometimes more depending on what I eat. Consistency with sodium in meals is most important I have found.

    If I had a high sodium breakfast but a low sodium lunch and dinner I dont feel too great especially if I keep it up for several days. Keeping sodium somewhat level with all meals is immensely helpful. You dont need necessarily need to measure sodium per meal at all.

    Salty starches of some kind along with meat that is salted when being cooked helps immensely. Things like having a lunch that is very fruit heavy(high water and potassium content) and lacking sodium will raise aldosterone and this is especially bad when having an underfunctioning thyroid because the hypothyroid person already has trouble holding on to salt, aldosterone will further worsen the hormonal environment.
     
  17. jamies33

    jamies33 Member

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    Thanks for clearing that up. It makes way more sense for chlorine to be the acid, while all the electrolytes alkaline
     
  18. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    The claim that it's not an issue because imbalances aren't detectable is similar to suggest that calcium deficiency is rare because the body keeps it constant in circulation.

    What about the use of bicarbonate and chloride salts in the management of acidosis and alkalosis? Diet will definitely accentuate a person's predisposition, making normalization more costly.
     
  19. redsun

    redsun Member

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    I think I gave the wrong impression. The general rule is that the body does strictly control pH and this is true for most. Of course, if one's electrolyte intake was severely lopsided on one side or high in one mineral and low in another etc. problems do arise. Calcium deficiency is an obvious example of this of course. I mean you could easily say a deficiency of calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, sodium, chlorine, or potassium will cause and acid/alkaline imbalance and thats probably right but one's electrolyte intake or vitamin D status has to be horrid to start causing problems. Even with poor intakes the body secretes hormones to maintain minimal levels and can do that for some time. Acidosis and alkalosis are real medical conditions but the proponents of the acidity/alkalinity theory paint a reality where we are all too acidic when this is almost never the case. I never heard these pH folk say there is such as thing as too alkaline, its always about acid, and "acid-forming foods" like meat, milk, and eggs.
     
  20. Hugh Johnson

    Hugh Johnson Member

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    And vinegar, which is supposed to magically become alkaline in the body. I never got them to explain that one.
     
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